hey, I just thought I would ask for advice here about subtituting 10mm (15mm if I absolutely must) for GW Warhammer fantasy factions here is what I am already thinking.
Orks and Goblins: goblins easy to find. Orks, not so much
The Empire: obviously historical line renicance will do well for most of them. easy, ecept for steam tanks
Skaven: Pedraken ratmen. pendraken stuff is nigh perfect for them.
Ogre Kingdoms:...........ogres, obviously. not sure how well they will diversify
Bretonia: western medieval historicals. easy to find
Kieslev: medieval Russians. not to hard to find.
Araby: arabs armies of pendraken. easy to find
Lizardmen: Range named after them.
High elves: high elves
Wood elves: wood elves.
dark elvs: dark elves.
Dwarves: pendraken dwarfs will do well.
Dwarfs of chaos: eureka chaos dwarfs, or differantly painted Pendrakens
Cathay: Chinese historicals, pendraken or otherwise.
Nippon: Samurai
Vampire counts: Undead.
Chaos: This is the one I am really having trouble with. the Fantasy bazrbarians can easily be the marauders, but for chaos knights and other elites I am not sure.
So what do you all think?
Hmmm, actually, I`ve been thinking about your question for a while. Yes it’s totally do-able in 10mm. As I looked through the list and sat matching all the Pendraken ranges (don`t ask me to quote the order numbers as I can`t remember them all) with your `needs` list, I began to realise it would be quite possible to use facsimiles of all the pieces you would need to play in a Warhammer World â€"especially Empire, Araby, Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Orcs, Skaven, or Lizardsmen. Whether you played skirmish level or full battles, as far as I can see, the Pendraken 10mm range covers everything you’d need... and I didn’t even dig deeply by any shot, so the range of availabilities is even more than I looked at.
Sounds like a great idea, and what a cool project. Happy hunting, happy painting and happy gaming.
Six :-\ ;) :)
As Steve says, we've got most of that covered, it's only the Chaos bunch that would be a problem. There's a request for them up on the Fantasy Requests board if you'd like to add your vote?
I was looking through the Pendraken Medieval range; you know... there’s a lot there could (at a small pinch) be painted and (gasp) converted easily enough to Chaos - add a few armoured Centaurs, Ogres, Trolls, Amazons (painted as Demon-ettes), Witch Elves, and you`d have yourself a decent Chaos army, even as the range stands now.
:-\
Everything will work apart form the chaos -
QuoteEverything will work apart form the chaos -
Yeah, I can see how Chaos could pose a bit of a problem if you wanted to include some of the daemon type creatures included in the rules book. I keep forgetting, they`ve added a whole load of things since the early days. But I`m still not totally convinced it can`t be overcome with a bit of imaginative thinking, a decent, modelling knife, and a willingness to adapt a wee bit. I could be wrong, and I bow to greater knowledge here. But I can see how it might be possible to include Chaos into the mix.
thanks for alerting me of the request, I voted. as for chaos, with so many other factions to buy paint and play with, I will probably be able to occupy my self with the easier to find factions for a while. if, after I have done those factions, and time/money (though my finances would have to take blow worthy of Archeon the everchosen to not be able to afford pendraken) permits, and the omens are correct, adn still there is no range that is analogous to chaos I shall take sixsideddice's advice and simply use my imagination, skill, and paint to create a force of chaos (said skill shall probably be far greater at said time then now, I will, after all, have the experience of creating the other armies of the warhammer world with 10mm) keep watching in the comeing weeks and months, you shall have the immense entertainment of watching me post pictures of my floundering through my quest of making said armies. first, because I think it will the most merciful on my newbishness, the empire.
Well...
You could buy several thousand points of Pendraken for the cost of one GW hero!
I mean, 70+ haflings for £11 - GET IN!
that was one of the main selling points of doing what I am doing. GW will steal your money even faster than the goverment!
Quotethanks for alerting me of the request, I voted. as for chaos, with so many other factions to buy paint and play with, I will probably be able to occupy my self with the easier to find factions for a while. if, after I have done those factions, and time/money (though my finances would have to take blow worthy of Archeon the everchosen to not be able to afford pendraken) permits, and the omens are correct, adn still there is no range that is analogous to chaos I shall take sixsideddice's advice and simply use my imagination, skill, and paint to create a force of chaos (said skill shall probably be far greater at said time then now, I will, after all, have the experience of creating the other armies of the warhammer world with 10mm) keep watching in the comeing weeks and months, you shall have the immense entertainment of watching me post pictures of my floundering through my quest of making said armies. first, because I think it will the most merciful on my newbishness, the empire.
You`ve really got me motivated here KOVAV, not to do Warhammer in 10mm as you intend, but rather to take on its counterpart "Ravenloft" - to create a vile, monstrous and unholy army of death and despair, led by the totally evil enigma Count Strahd von Zarovich of Barovia. Its about time I concentrated on my Undead legions a bit more. Hmmmm, this is inspiring.
I
greatly look forward to seeing your creations come to life KOVAV. I`m sure you have a lot of amazing surprises up your sleeve for us over the coming months. Great stuff, and happy
happy hunting my friend.
Leon, do you make a 10mm carriage in any of your miniature ranges... my Vampire Count will need a suitable mode of transport ;)
Six :)
I'll look forward to seeing how you get on Kovav, keep us updated!
Quote from: sixsideddice on 12 September 2011, 10:12:50 PM
Leon, do you make a 10mm carriage in any of your miniature ranges... my Vampire Count will need a suitable mode of transport ;)
Yep, SYW10 in the SYW Miscellaneous section. 8)
QuoteYep, SYW10 in the SYW Miscellaneous section.
Placing a new order now 8)
wooohooooo!!!! and we`re off :D
thanks for all the help guys! and SSD the castle ravenloft thing is a wonderful idea! I may undertake it after I am done with WFB proper, and with the added benefit of learning from your mistakes. I have decided to start my army by replicating this starter set: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440089a&prodId=prod2030000 (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440089a&prodId=prod2030000)
same thing, cept it will cost my 24 dollars plus shipping, as opposed to 115 plus shipping, AND I will end up with 102 figures as opposed to 48. I plan to use EC:1 for the empire state troops, ELM 11 for the handgunners, LAN 3 for the greatswordsmen, and EC11 for the knights.
Sounds excellent Kovav, I can`t wait to see how you get on with this little lot. Empire are always fun to collect, and in 10mm will look totally awesome. When you add the Pendraken terrain (cottages, trees... omg the trees are nice; road sections, crates, barrels, etc) you have the most amazing set up imaginable. I liken 10mm wargames to looking at an N Gauge model railway over the normal OO scale.
I really like to keep my games small (dining table size at the most) as opposed to using a 6` by 4` board. I know many like to do it that way, simply making units bigger and expanding the number of miniatures on the bases used, and to play games on the same size table as they normally would in 28mm; but to me this defeats the whole point of playing in this diminutive scale a bit, just my opinion mind.
I literally just placed my own order for my "Ravenloft" theme.... Count`s carriage included *wink* so this little lot will bulk up my existing undead collection and make quite a decent little army for Strahd to lead :-\
Now, where did I put my unfinished zombies - they`ll be a good place to start painting while I wait for the post to arrive.
Six :)
my table is huge, I inherited it from my parents, heads of a large fammily, so as for gameing table, as long as I play at home, I dont have to worry about size. BUT such a table is not always avaible, so the apeal of 10mm is bolstered by the lesser need of space (the main calling for me was the far better deal in cost while sacrificing suprisingly little visual apeal. I mean, the people I game with will probably lauph at my army until they see that I can get armies much bigger than theres for a fraction of the cost, that en masse, look just as good, hopefully they will see it my way)
Glad to see that you can go WHFB without going GW.
regarding your empire force you may be better going with EL3 or LAN5 for hand gunners as the ELM ones may look a bit early
I have a fair few Pendraken in my Warmaster Dogs of War http://kerynne.com/games/WarmasterDogsofWar.html
your probably right. glad you cought me before I ordered.
The link below is to a blog where someone refought Bloodbath at Orc's Drift using singly based 10mm (not using Warhammer though).
http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/search/label/Battle%20Reports.%20Warrior%20Heroes%20Armies%20and%20Adventurers (http://javieratwar.blogspot.com/search/label/Battle%20Reports.%20Warrior%20Heroes%20Armies%20and%20Adventurers)
It inspired me to dig out my old copy of Bloodbath and start building forces, which I couldn't afford to do 20+ years ago.
I'm going to base on 20x20mm, 20x40mm or 40x40mm but using 2 figs rather than one. Champtions/Heros will be singly based.
Lee
P.S
If you do Ravenloft, I suspect you'll already have alot of the undead required for "Terror of the Lichmaster"??
Ooh, Bloodbath at Orcs drift is an interesting idea - that was the first wargames campaign that I played, probably 20 years ago. I still have the original box - might have to dig that out
Quote from: fred12df on 13 September 2011, 06:38:28 AM
Glad to see that you can go WHFB without going GW.
regarding your empire force you may be better going with EL3 or LAN5 for hand gunners as the ELM ones may look a bit early
I have a fair few Pendraken in my Warmaster Dogs of War http://kerynne.com/games/WarmasterDogsofWar.html
Very nice army. I see you have some of the same ideas as I have - Mammoth as Tuska, Elizabethan & Landsknechts ranges for the humans. Great minds think alike .... ;)
I've also tried the Lizardmen way - it's stuck at the mo, can't find proper figs for Kroxigors and Slann. Don't know if the 15mm range will do for Kroxigors?
Cheers, Martyn
--
Quote from: KOVAV on 13 September 2011, 01:28:27 AM
... the people I game with will probably lauph at my army until they see that I can get armies much bigger than theres for a fraction of the cost, that en masse, look just as good, hopefully they will see it my way)
Send them our way, we'll help convince them!
Quote from: Raider4 on 13 September 2011, 06:06:20 PM
I've also tried the Lizardmen way - it's stuck at the mo, can't find proper figs for Kroxigors and Slann. Don't know if the 15mm range will do for Kroxigors?
Have you got a pic of the kind of look you're after?
Quote from: Leon on 13 September 2011, 08:54:57 PM
Have you got a pic of the kind of look you're after?
See message http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=385.msg6961#msg6961 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=385.msg6961#msg6961)
I'm currently using Tribal Lizardmen as not-Saurus, and Newtmen from the same range as not-Skinks.
Cheers, Martyn
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You're after a Buddha?! :D
The 15mm Lizards do look a lot like the regular ones, but with a crest on the heads.
Quote from: Leon on 13 September 2011, 09:08:11 PM
You're after a Buddha?! :D
A giant frog-like figure, in a serene Buddha-like pose.
Quote from: Leon on 13 September 2011, 09:08:11 PM
The 15mm Lizards do look a lot like the regular ones, but with a crest on the heads.
Yes, but use swords & spears. I just want teeth & claws, and maybe boulders. Reptillian versions for your Trolls would be perfect.
Cheers, Martyn
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Quote from: Raider4 on 13 September 2011, 09:11:33 PM
A giant frog-like figure, in a serene Buddha-like pose.
Yes, but use swords & spears. I just want teeth & claws, and maybe boulders. Reptillian versions for your Trolls would be perfect.
Ah right, I think they're already on the list but I'll check.
Aaarrgghh - stop it - you lot are killing me...I've been wanting to do Pendraken fantasy armies, predominantly for WM gaming, but I am partial to WHFB up to & including 6th edition, for *ages*...
I've thought about using Hill Dwarves for Chaos Dwarves as a simple differential...
Oh - and Ravenloft? Six, you are accruing more & more of my respect - I want to see this. Now please. :d
Hmm - I can see where this is leading...anyone want to buy some beautifully painted (if I do say so myself) Chaos & Tomb Kings in 28mm? :D
QuoteAaarrgghh - stop it - you lot are killing me...I've been wanting to do Pendraken fantasy armies, predominantly for WM gaming, but I am partial to WHFB up to & including 6th edition, for *ages*...
I've thought about using Hill Dwarves for Chaos Dwarves as a simple differential...
Oh - and Ravenloft? Six, you are accruing more & more of my respect - I want to see this. Now please.
Hmm - I can see where this is leading...anyone want to buy some beautifully painted (if I do say so myself) Chaos & Tomb Kings in 28mm?
=O ;D <:-P Party time :D
thanks again all for the advice and encouregment. on more thing-how would you base them? should I just use the 20mmx20mm basing used in the normal scale game? or should I shrink it in proportion to the smaller minies? if the second option is best, how would I determine the movement and ranges of said shrunk units. I am kind of haveing a qaundry here. on one hand, if I use the normal sized bases, the units (unless I base more units to one base) will a bit loose in formation. if I use proportionally smaller bases, I would have to modify the rules.
20x20 would give the option for Warmaster...
IanS
Quotethanks again all for the advice and encouregment. on more thing-how would you base them? should I just use the 20mmx20mm basing used in the normal scale game? or should I shrink it in proportion to the smaller minies? if the second option is best, how would I determine the movement and ranges of said shrunk units. I am kind of haveing a qaundry here. on one hand, if I use the normal sized bases, the units (unless I base more units to one base) will a bit loose in formation. if I use proportionally smaller bases, I would have to modify the rules.
hmmm, it all depends if you intend to use a commercially existing set of rules with an exacting base scale written in. However, if you plan to base your figures individually I`d strongly recommend you go to the bank and get a load of 1 cent coins for foot, 2 cent coins for horses and slightly bigger things (like some dungeon creatures) and 5 cent coins for the biggest Pendraken 10mm critters out there. If you use the Euro in your country then picking them up is as simple as exchanging a few Euro for coins in the bank; if you use the pound, the bank will probably not have them in stock, but will get them for you in less than a week â€" two max (I`d pick up a pile all at once, that’s what I do. You`d be amaze how quickly your collection grows). I`d suggest 5 euro worth of 1 cent coins (500 bases there), maybe 50 2 cent coins, and perhaps 20 5 cent coins.
Why cents and not another currency? The one and two cent coins fits beautifully on the Pendraken resin dungeon tiles; and the five cent coin fits well over a few squares and feels nicely in scale. I also like these coins because they allow just enough base room to allow an aesthetically pleasing finish to each miniature, but doesn`t make the figures look out-scaled â€" like the Mage Knight ones do for example.
But this also all doubles up nicely if you ever want to use my generic mass combat rules which will be in print and available from Pendraken as soon as Leon sorts things out with the printers/publishers... he`s a busy chap, so I don`t know when this will be exactly.
Hope this helps,
Six
Incidentally, I cover basing suggestions in detail in the website. I`ll be publishing the website publically within the next few weeks.
thanks ssd. so, would the euro cent coins be rouphy analogous in size to the coins we have in america? (remeamber I am a yank, its the reason I am waiting 4 weeks to get my first batch of minies) the coins do sound like a good Idea, but I am not quite sure how well their round shape would do with the massed sqaure blocks of men in WHFB. now, I am no GW rule nazi, and I plan to use any and all rulesets with my minies that I can get my hands on, but the problem is that with sqaure bases I would be able to do both GW and others, while round, I think I would only be able to do others. PS: looking forward to see your website!
Quotethanks ssd. so, would the euro cent coins be rouphy analogous in size to the coins we have in america? (remeamber I am a yank, its the reason I am waiting 4 weeks to get my first batch of minies) the coins do sound like a good Idea, but I am not quite sure how well their round shape would do with the massed sqaure blocks of men in WHFB. now, I am no GW rule nazi, and I plan to use any and all rulesets with my minies that I can get my hands on, but the problem is that with sqaure bases I would be able to do both GW and others, while round, I think I would only be able to do others. PS: looking forward to see your website!
Oh jeee, um... I have no idea I`m afraid. I only know Euro I`m afraid. Ì lived in Canada for a while, but I can`t remember the coins at all :(
there must be some good equivalent ones there. When you see them in the site you`ll get a better idea of the sizes I use and can work it out yourself from there. I like the coins too because they add a bit of weight to the minis, and definitely helps them stand up better on difficult or tilted (hills) terrain. However, like all things, it’s down to personal choice at the end of the day.
Hmmmm, round over square bases :-\ With Warhammer (much more so in the early days) it was always a choice between round and square. Square tended often to be Warhammer, while Warhammer 40K used rounds. But there was much personal choice involved at the time, and you`d often see both being used for either game.
Personally I like rounds, but that’s just personal choice... even when 10mm playing mass combat (individually based) games. I always liked the way the round bases looked on GW`s LOTR table top battle game; my DWC Mass Combat rules work well for me using roundels too, but again, it’s just down to personal preference really.
However, if you used 20mm bases for your games, you`d never fit the bases onto the Pendraken resin Dungeon Tiles should you ever wish to go that route â€" which I`d strongly advise you do try at some stage. There`s somethin gabout a dungeon crawl in 10mm which just inspires love at first sight.
Six :D
....... a lot of people seem to prefer using little metal or rubber washers for bases. You know, the kind youd find in most hardware store. But you`d have to make sure when you found the right ones that the store can get more in. Either that or buy all you think you`ll ever need in one go.
Basing. If you go single figure then you need metal bases to give some stability. I used 12mm washers for my single based figures.
If you are wanting to play war hammer in 10mm then I would like at multi-figure basing, I would do some 20x20mm bases with 3 or 4 figures per base, I would also do a few larger bases to make movement easier, larger bases also give the chance to do mini dioramas.