Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: Spenno on 23 August 2011, 12:50:38 PM

Title: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Spenno on 23 August 2011, 12:50:38 PM

Hello,

I am looking at getting into each era of historic wargaming (WW1, medieval etc) and i was wondering if anybody could recommend the best rule sets to use for this, so that I can either start playing in the future or just use for when i buy in armies to paint and sell so i base them correctly etc.

Many thanks to everybody who can help.

Steven
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: lentulus on 23 August 2011, 02:01:23 PM
Well, for WWII I use Blitzkrieg Commander; many around here also use Command Decision:Test of Battle.  Both are stand=platoon and which is better is simply a matter of taste.

For Seven Years War I use the Hearts of Tin rules available here: http://gameofmonth.blogspot.com/  My troops are based on 30mm squares and I use centimeters instead of inches.



Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Luddite on 23 August 2011, 06:41:27 PM
ACW = Fire & Fury.  Peerless ruleset.

Ancients / MEdeival = Field of Glory (currently), DBM (previously).

WWII - Crossfire

WWI/WWII/Modern 'skirmish' level - Rules of Engagement

Wild West = Legends of the Old West

Fantasy = Hordes of the Things

Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Fenton on 23 August 2011, 06:41:41 PM
For WW2 I would agree with BKC, for WW1 wait a bit for Great War spearhead 2 as I think they will be excellent when there finally released, for Mediveal  ancients and ECW type games have a look at Impetus they use lovely big bases so you can fun making diorama bases  as well

http://impetusnews.blogspot.com/

http://www.blitzkrieg-commander.com/



And for impetus you download free versions of them all ..they are a basic version but play just as well as their big brothers


http://dadiepiombo.com/bbaroq1.html
http://www.dadiepiombo.com/basic2.html

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Hertsblue on 23 August 2011, 07:28:04 PM
At the risk of being dogmatic - there are no "best" rulesets. My advice - try a few and pick the ones you like. There are plenty knocking about on the web.  ;)
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: nikharwood on 23 August 2011, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 23 August 2011, 07:28:04 PM
At the risk of being dogmatic - there are no "best" rulesets. My advice - try a few and pick the ones you like. There are plenty knocking about on the web.  ;)

Hear, hear. Ask ten wargamers for the best rulesets and you'll likely get 15 opinions  :D
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 23 August 2011, 09:11:33 PM
Quote from: nikharwood on 23 August 2011, 09:03:45 PM
Hear, hear. Ask ten wargamers for the best rulesets and you'll likely get 15 opinions  :D

that's your opinion Nik!  ;)
I'd say closer to 20...

A lot of rules are great, a lot are duffers! Best used to be to find your nearest games club and try a few, but now so many clubs are fragmented by the rules they play (at MKWS on any given night there will be 8 different rules sets going on), really.
You will need to try some until you find the set that suits you, some more commercial ones will be popular - but will not be playable or may be dominated by 'gamey' competition players, whereas other clubs will have home grown and try out games.
Good luck!
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Spenno on 23 August 2011, 09:17:18 PM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 23 August 2011, 07:28:04 PM
At the risk of being dogmatic - there are no "best" rulesets. My advice - try a few and pick the ones you like. There are plenty knocking about on the web.  ;)

I agree, but I find it easier to make a choice based on other recommendations. Also i dont really have the time to look through to many different rule sets on the web, all my free time goes into painting or work.
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Spenno on 23 August 2011, 09:23:26 PM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 23 August 2011, 09:11:33 PM
that's your opinion Nik!  ;)
I'd say closer to 20...

A lot of rules are great, a lot are duffers! Best used to be to find your nearest games club and try a few, but now so many clubs are fragmented by the rules they play (at MKWS on any given night there will be 8 different rules sets going on), really.
You will need to try some until you find the set that suits you, some more commercial ones will be popular - but will not be playable or may be dominated by 'gamey' competition players, whereas other clubs will have home grown and try out games.
Good luck!

Wish my local clubs games nights matched my free night, I will be trying to convert Hardcore 40K and fantasy gamers into the games and they would not play Flames of War because the gameplay had to much realism in it lol

Thanks for the advice, will look to see what clubs i could make it to outside of my area or what games are played at competitions i can make it to.

Thanks
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Serotonin on 24 August 2011, 07:00:22 AM
Our gaming group seems to have about 40 different rule sets floating around covering a number of periods and scales.

We've tried to scale down but we tend to end up with 2 for each period- usually 1 skirmish level game and 1 large scale.

So for WW2 we have Rules of Engagement (skirmish) and BKC2
Moderns- Force of FOrce (skirmish) and then CWC.

Black Powder era tends to be Black Powder funnily enough with Sharp Practice for the skirmish.

Ancients has tended to be Warhammer Ancients, but Ive never been over keen, or Warmaster (which I liked much better but the combat always felt a little overly complex in resolution) and we purchased Hail Caear when it was released, but only so far managed 1 battle (which was cool)

My tendency is to the Warmaster based games to be honest. I love the command system
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: GordonY on 24 August 2011, 07:54:51 AM
"they would not play Flames of War because the gameplay had to much realism in it"

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

must be real dyed-in-the-wool fanboyz then  ;D
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Spenno on 24 August 2011, 09:37:57 AM
Quote from: GordonY on 24 August 2011, 07:54:51 AM
"they would not play Flames of War because the gameplay had to much realism in it"

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

must be real dyed-in-the-wool fanboyz then  ;D

Lol that they are, they dont play armies that are fun and wont win most of the time
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: NTM on 24 August 2011, 09:48:46 AM
Quote from: Spenno on 24 August 2011, 09:37:57 AM
Lol that they are, they dont play armies that are fun and wont win most of the time

They'd probably love the British Armoured Regiment (BAR) in FoW Blitzkrieg from what I've read on various forums  ;)
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: DanJ on 24 August 2011, 09:57:35 AM
As everyone keeps saying there are probably as many more preferences for rules than there are players.

It may depend on what scale games you want to play and what scale figures as some rules are mainly aimed at 28mm figures for instance Warhammer Historical or Hail Caesar, while others are aimed more at smaller figures, Warmaster Ancients is designed for 10mm figures.  This is my favourite set and the Pendraken figures are ideal.

Most WW1 rules are aimed at 28mm but I've posted a set of rules for games up to Divisional level using 10mm figures.  If yo want an updated version drop me a private message and I'll send you a copy.

Dan
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Leman on 25 August 2011, 06:42:06 PM
Well as Eve is reputed to have said, "God, that's a hard one." A further problem with 'best' rules is that as time goes by what were once perceived as good rules fall out of favour as new ideas and innovations come along. I've just discovered Black Powder and they look as though they can deal with most of the Horse and Musket period - 1700-1900 - and I believe a Pike and Shot version is on its way. Similarly Hail Caesar rules do the same thing for Ancients. Ostensibly written for 28mm figures these rules work with 10mm by having a shorter frontage and using cm instead of inches. They have also been written for tailoring to sub-periods so that, for example, ACW games will feel different from FPW games. However, they do seem to be written for divisional rather than corps sized battles.
DP
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 26 August 2011, 08:52:11 AM
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 25 August 2011, 06:42:06 PM
Similarly Hail Caesar rules do the same thing for Ancients. Ostensibly written for 28mm figures these rules work with 10mm by having a shorter frontage and using cm instead of inches. They have also been written for tailoring to sub-periods so that, for example, ACW games will feel different from FPW games. However, they do seem to be written for divisional rather than corps sized battles.
DP
I agree: However, I just use Divisional commanders as everyone else uses brigadiers, divisional command gets replaced by Corps, based on a regimental scale for infantry and brigades of cavalry (unless skirmishing). This means multi corps games work well.
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 26 August 2011, 09:04:24 AM
Black Powder gave a good game with 2 base btns on 60x30 bases (figures Irregular 6's), so should do as well with 10mm. I did make up skimish markers - 20x30, and guns are on 303x30.

No Nic - no picies.  ;)

IanS
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Luddite on 26 August 2011, 09:41:03 AM
Quote from: Hertsblue on 23 August 2011, 07:28:04 PM
At the risk of being dogmatic - there are no "best" rulesets. My advice - try a few and pick the ones you like. There are plenty knocking about on the web.  ;)

Agreed, but the OP isn't about 'best', but 'recommended'.

Perhaps it might have helped if we'd all explained why we recommended what we did.

From my list, i also consider Fire & Fury to be the 'best' ACW ruleset out there (for brigade-level actions of course).



I see Flames of War's popped its ugly head up here too.

*Brooding silence*

What can i say in the context of this thread?  They are neither 'recommended' nor 'the best'.  In fact, if you've got a moment' they are an object lesson in how to not write a set of rules.  They are a warning of how badly wrong, games design can go.  It astonishes me that anyone ever plays these rules more than once.

No Ludd, stop yourself now.  You know you can feel a rant coming on.  Just walk away old chap...
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: GordonY on 26 August 2011, 09:59:37 AM
Gotta agree on the FoW rules, simply put, 40K in WW2 clothes, and anyone apart from a GW fanboy has to agree that 40K is THE most broken set of rules ever rehashed and reserved (repeatedly to the adoring fanboyz) ever.

And Ludd, for my money, Civil War Battles by Peter Pig gets my money for best ACW ruleset, Corps level rather than Division, but you could just say that each brigade is a regiment and hey-presto, its a Divisional set.
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: kustenjaeger on 26 August 2011, 11:06:44 AM
Greetings

Recommending rules can sometimes be an exercise in futility because it depends what the potential user wants from a game.   I've got a wide range of rulesets for different periods and levels of command.

So for example WW2:
- Brigade level action i.e.. 2-4 battalions per side with one stand = 1 platoon: I predominantly use Blitzkrieg Commander II because it gives a good game in reasonable time and can be easily picked up.  However I've also got Command Decision (various editions) and would use that for more 'detailed' games when I get time (I've also got Spearhead and Kampfgruppe Commander but I'm not wild about these);
- Battalion level acton i.e. 2-4 companies per side with one stand = 1 section: Battlefront WW2 (one can also use BKC for this) though I tend to use a larger ground scale;
- Company level action i.e. 2-4 platoons per side with one figure = 1 man: I Ain't Been Shot Mum (I've also used Arc of Fire) which is card based activation with a lot of friction - not something everyone can get along with;
- Platoon level action i.e. 2-4 sections per side with one figure = 1 man: Tactics Weapons and Troops - another card activated set by Too Fat Lardies.

Note that not all of these use 10mm though I have for Brigade, Battalion and Company level (the latter tends to be 15mm as that is what most other people use who I play with; also some Battalion level I use 15mm).

Regards

Edward

Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: nikharwood on 27 August 2011, 11:23:06 AM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 26 August 2011, 09:04:24 AM
No Nic - no picies.  ;)

IanS

Why not? Don't think I've ever seen any pics from you... :P

Quote from: Luddite on 26 August 2011, 09:41:03 AM

No Ludd, stop yourself now.  You know you can feel a rant coming on.  Just walk away old chap...

Nice recovery  ;D
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 27 August 2011, 11:38:33 AM
Quote from: nikharwood on 27 August 2011, 11:23:06 AM
Why not? Don't think I've ever seen any pics from you... :P



Cant use a cammera, and did send you the ones oof that FWC game.

IanS
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: nikharwood on 27 August 2011, 12:05:51 PM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 27 August 2011, 11:38:33 AM
Cant use a cammera, and did send you the ones oof that FWC game.

IanS

Ah yes - I forgot that...which means you can use a camera  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 27 August 2011, 12:26:07 PM
No - my camera - someone else photoing !! :-[
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Spenno on 29 August 2011, 11:27:27 AM
Thank you everybody, I now have somewhere to make a start from.

In hindsight I should have said Favorite instead of best lol

Thanks
Steven
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Aart Brouwer on 29 August 2011, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Luddite on 26 August 2011, 09:41:03 AMI see Flames of War's popped its ugly head up here too.

*Brooding silence*

What can i say in the context of this thread?  They are neither 'recommended' nor 'the best'.  In fact, if you've got a moment' they are an object lesson in how to not write a set of rules.  They are a warning of how badly wrong, games design can go.  It astonishes me that anyone ever plays these rules more than once.

No Ludd, stop yourself now.  You know you can feel a rant coming on.  Just walk away old chap...

So, um, tell us Luddite, what exactly is wrong with the old FoW rules?  ???

Take your time, mate, we're all ears.  :)

AII
Title: Re: Recommended rule sets?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 August 2011, 04:16:56 PM
Bear little relation to WWII, starting to get the massive number of supplements syndrome, own stuff rather expensive.....

In favor

It's a good game, and the offical toys look nice.

IanS