Pendraken Miniatures Forum

For some time now I`ve been messing about with the notion of combining Dungeon World with my love for Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 and the new 4th edition. Okay I know some would say 4th edition are a re-hash of 3.5 merely designed to make the game play more like a Warcraft MMO; the new Dungeons and Dragons certainly is more Miniatures based than ever before; But (let’s face it) however you feel about 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons, when combined with 10mm Fantasy Dungeon Crawl gaming, the emphasis on miniatures is a definite bonus, in my mind.

So, I racked my brain, pondered, frowned, then wondered some more, and late one night a while ago as I scratched my head some more as I sat poured over Dungeon World, it came to me - Eureka!!!  I noticed a basic symbiosis between Dungeon World and Dungeons and Dragons which meant I could very easily convert Dungeon World into a true role playing game variation with very little effort involved. The stats for Dungeons and Dragons and Dungeon World were essentially similar enough for me to make a few simple alterations... subtle, yet big enough to marry the two systems into one workable whole.

Now all you have to do is switch the game dice to D20s, use the Dungeon World Special Abilities to provide + bonuses to Task Checks (e.g. the Initiative Phase in the variation rules is now rolled for using D20s, and the Initiative Bonus special ability gives a +4 benefit to that roll), Combat, Ranged Attacks, and so on.

Spells, Equipment, Treasure, etc can now all be carried over from Dungeons and Dragons and used in Dungeon World with little or no effort on the Draken Master`s part. Which means any Pendraken Miniatures gamer can pick up ANY Dungeons and Dragons adventure module and convert it almost instantly to Dungeon World using these few simple rules.

Dungeon World as it stands is a fine little game which plays like a table top miniatures game - in a dungeon. It feels `old school`. It feels like something Gary Gygax would have played back in the old pioneering days of the hobby, and it`s a game I will always play and enjoy to the full. But as a non complex rpg, these Dungeon World variation rules are a really nice addition to the game I think.

Give them a go. I think you may be surprised how much fun they are.

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/Dungeon%20World%20RPG%20Variation.pdf


Six   ;)

Good man, I've been pondering expanding your rules into more of an RPG, so great timing :D I shall read over the weekend.

Cheers,

Kev

You`ll notice very quickly that what I have created is a foundation... a skeleton upon which each Draken Master can hang as much (or as little) complexity as they like; a bit like the old Tunnels and Trolls system. It can be played simply or it can be added to create anything you want to bring into the fold. I personally like things simple, relying on role playing and storytelling to bring a game alive. However, others may like a lot more rules, so using the task Resolution table, the D20 combat rules on combat Attacks, Armour Class and so on - you can make the game anything you want.

Happy adventuring.

Six

Tip-top, top-notch six....like Squirrel, I shall give these some proper attention over the weekend.

I've loved all editions of D&D - but with a dearth of gamers around here, haven't managed to play 3.5 & 4ed 'properly' [ie non-solo]...and as much as I love Pathfinder [& all the 3.5 Pathfinder modules that I've got], I do really like the 4ed rulebooks - they are *lovely* to read...

So - I'm looking forward to being able to [finally] give them a run-out in my favourite format [you're not going to catch me buying those hideous pre-painted 28mm minis!]

Muchas gracias amigo  8)

De nada amigo!  8)

Hey Nic.... they`re short and sweet, and demand the DM puts in his (or her) own work to make them as complete you want to go.

But have fun with the rules, and enjoy those Pathfinder modules.

[you're not going to catch me buying those hideous pre-painted 28mm minis!]

Don`t worry... I think I bought them all up...........  then I discovered 10mm Pendraken  ;)





Six

Nik..... even  #-o

Incidentally, for anyone who is not familiar with Dungeon World, and wondering to themselves "well how can anyone possibly use Dungeons and Dragons spells... there are no character or spell levels anywhere that I can see?" the answer is that Dungeon World HAS no character (or Hero) levels. It runs a bit like the old classic Runequest; the development and attainment of skills dispenses with the need for levels altogether. This has been discussed in these forums adequately in the past and so I won’t go into the reasons again  :)... suffice to say it removes that `thing` you see in games where everything is designed around level powering, and allows what would ordinarily be classed as low level Heroes to play adventures alongside the higher skilled ones. Classic example of levelling restrictions would be the World of Warcraft online MMO where a level 5 avatar can`t even go to a level 15 area half the time, and certainly wouldn`t be expected to live more than a few seconds if he did.

If there’s a spell in Dungeons and Dragons you wish to adapt and use in this Dungeon World variation, just play around with it to make it workable in Dungeon World â€" and add it to the list. If you fear the Dungeons and Dragons spell is too high a level to work in Dungeon World, just make it cost more and be harder to obtain. This way you can pick and choose new spells to add to the game, and simply ignore those you don`t like (Dungeons and Dragons has picked up far far far too many spells over the years anyway - it’s now almost a monster in its own right).

By the way, the Dungeon World RPG Variation mentions 3.5 and 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons rules without really going into how to convert earlier editions of that game. In case this frustrates anyone wanting to use earlier ("Classic" or 1st edition AD&D) adventures but wonders how to convert THACO or Armour Classes in these rules, all you do is.... let’s say you have a Monster with an Armour Class of 4. Just calculate the number of +1s you need to add between the number you need and the Armour Class of the target if it weren`t wearing armour at all. Similarly with THACO, if a Hero has a THACO of â€" let’s say 14, simply equate that with the number of +1s needed to hit armour class 0 (i.e. +6). It’s really that simple.

Hope this helps.


Six  :)

Excellent job Six  :-bd

Having seen a few flawed attempts at simplifying RPG rules over the years, I think you've actually cracked it 8)

Can't wait to find the time to actually try them out for real. I especially like the way you've gone the no levels route, as that was always the main reason I prefered Runequest over D&D.

Thanks for writing this up and sharing :D

Cheers,

Kev

QuoteHaving seen a few flawed attempts at simplifying RPG rules over the years, I think you've actually cracked it

Can't wait to find the time to actually try them out for real. I especially like the way you've gone the no levels route, as that was always the main reason I prefered Runequest over D&D.

Thank you Kev, that`s very kind of you. You know, without boasting... I think I may actually have cracked this life time dilemma of making something so simple, yet with enough room for confident DM`s to be able to manoeuvre and add their own flourishes to the game, at their heart`s content. Yet is all remains incredibly simple. It DOES however, mean DM`s will have do a bit of work, adding their own input into their games - always a bonus I believe. There is too much spoon fed stuff out there nowadays as it is... just my belief.

I deliberately didn`t add all the things I could have thrown into the variation rules. To have done so would have defeated the intrinsic idea of simplicity. Better to allow individual DM`s everywhere to do all this for themselves If THEY WANT TO.

Also, if anyone needs any advice, or a few hints and pointers how to go about doing things for themselves; then I (and I suspect others here as well) will be more than delighted to offer advice on the game, here in the open forums. This way everyone will benefit at the same time.

Six (Steve)  :)

I think the secret to your success is exactly what you have left out. Short of buying ready made scenarios, tying everything up to match complex rules is a lot of work.

Your take on it makes it easier for GM's to put in more - if that makes sense!

Of cause now you've mastered it, the sci-fi boys are going to want a version :P

Cheers,

Kev

QuoteI think the secret to your success is exactly what you have left out. Short of buying ready made scenarios, tying everything up to match complex rules is a lot of work.

Your take on it makes it easier for GM's to put in more - if that makes sense!

Of cause now you've mastered it, the sci-fi boys are going to want a version

Cheers,

Kev

Ah, all in good time  ;)

QuoteI think the secret to your success is exactly what you have left out. Short of buying ready made scenarios, tying everything up to match complex rules is a lot of work.

Your take on it makes it easier for GM's to put in more - if that makes sense!

.... I suppose  a few good examples of that would be:  in the rules I decided to mention that a natural 20 on a D20 "To Hit" roll is a critical hit and causes double damage; but I deliberately left out that a natural 20 on any Task Resolution roll can also be classed as a critical success if you want it to? Anyone who plays Dungeons and Dragons will know this for themselves anyway, so really by simply reminding readers of conventions within the "classic" allows them to decide whether they want to include such things in this their own Dungeon World Variations.

Similarly, in Dungeons and Dragons, some people like to play it that a natural roll of 1 on a D20 is classed as an critical failure or fumble (automatic failure in a Combat or Task Resolution attempt). Again, anyone who already plays Dungeons and Dragons will already now this so can add or dismiss such rules, without me having to prompt them too much.

The Dungeon World Variation also mentions a "Charge" into melee/close combat (+2) allows a Hero to move a miniature double normal movement... but I don`t mention that in Dungeons and Dragons, running also offers similar bonuses to movement. I already have that one covered in Dungeon World by the Special Ability Swift Mover. However, that could easily be superseded by allowing the normal Dungeons and Dragons conventions on movement.

The list is endless. If I`d added even a quarter of these, the Dungeon World 4 page rpg Variation would have been a complete hefty tome in itself.

Six  :)

How to use Dungeon World Stats to represent attributes for Task Resolution (TR for short).

Movement: The average for a human Hero is 4 (Squares) per action phase. Slower movement (e.g. a Dwarf or Halfling) will reduce all Movement Skill and Resolution based Tests by -2 per movement point below 4. Each point above 4 (e.g. Elves have a movement of 5) will increase Tests by +2. Movement Tests might include all Dexterity based skills -jumping climbing, catching a thrown object, swimming, juggling, general co-ordination, etc.

Attacks: Weapon Attacks and Shooting (just called Attacks in the Variation rules) apply to Task Resolutions involving feats of Strength and/or Endurance.

Armour: this ability is also used to represent Constitution (general well being) in all Task Resolutions relating to fitness, health, survival traits, and Stamina.

Hit Points/Wounds: are never used in Task Resolutions.

Movement increases cannot be purchased. You are born as you are (unless a Draken Master deems otherwise).

Attack adds can be purchased. Maximum is 6.

Armour adds can be purchased. Maximum is 6.

Hits/Wound adds can be purchased. Maximum Hero is 10.

A Hero possessing Initiative Bonus (which is not actually an attribute) may use his intrinsic awareness of what’s happening around him to add +4 to all Task Resolutions demanding astuteness, being in tune with nature, general observation, judging if a person feels right, is lying, is good or bad, whether it’s going to rain later, perhaps allowing the Hero to be good at cards, gambling, etc.

The special ability Checking can be combined with Initiative Bonus to give an additional +1 to relevant Task Resolutions. Similarly, Initiative Bonus will add +1 to any Task check made against the Checking ability. On its own, Checking will add +4 to Task Resolutions requiring observation, recognition (perhaps recognising a person at long range), and noticing changes in environment (it’s getting colder, and so on).

Other Special Abilities may also benefit the user in certain situations - as the Dungeon Master sees fit. As a Player, if you feel your Hero has a relevant ability... hammer it out with your Draken Master. If you have a kind and benevolent DM he may just allow you to use it. Special Abilities such as these usually start with a basic Task Resolution bonus of +4. Additional bonus increments (+1 at a time) may be purchased as the game goes on.

Nice additions Six  8) I've been looking at similar things, 'talants' or 'shills' if you like that give a bonus. A list could be endless!

Cheers,

Kev

Actually...

Attack adds can be purchased. Maximum is 10. Not six, duh!  :D

Remember also, in the Dungeon World Variation,  if Dungeon World trap or similar causes 1, 2, 3, etc damage... multiply by 5 to get the total result (e.g. 3 points damage from a trap would become 15 points total). Similarly with healing, always multiply by 5.

However, pluses (+1) to Attacks or Armour are not multiplied, rather they give plus bonuses to the D20 attack roll or Armour Class.

... Of course, I`m just throwing thoughts into the forum really; running ideas up the flag pole to see who salutes them.

The Dungeon World game, as it stands (especially the new 3D edition, which no one has seen yet) is as complete as you`d wish it to be. But the Variation add on is really just a taster of how easy it is for anyone to make slight alterations and turn the game into a simple role playing experience that can stand alongside the main body of the rules... not by changing things, but by interpreting the miniature stats slightly differently.

In my own family (and solo) games, I now combine both Dungeon World and the Dungeon World Variations in a slightly different way. I use Dungeon World as normal in almost all situations - but I don`t use the "Weapon Attacks" to represent the number of dice I throw (and add together) as the rules are written. Instead I tend to use the Variation rules so that the “Weapon Attacks” and "Shooting" dice represents +1s which are added to the D20 “To Hit” roll... pretty much as the Variation rules advice. However, successful hits only cause 1 Wound in my games (I personally don`t multiply figure stats by 5). So for example, if my Hero with 7 "Attacks" gets into a fight, and let’s say each of his 3 Attacks* manage to score a Hit; that would represent 3 wounds on the enemy in front of him (remember, in the Variation rules figures make individual attacks and do not combine their melee dice like they do in Dungeon World).

*Models with “Attacks 5” may roll to hit a second time if the first attack is a hit.
  Models with “Attacks 6” roll to hit twice in combat.
  Models with more than “Attacks 6” roll to hit three times.

3D edition .......... sounds intriguing :D

I've still not had time to try out the variation rules yet - life getting in the way - but keep these thoughts coming!

Cheers,

Kev

Quote3D edition .......... sounds intriguing

hehe, they`re out of my hands now. I handed them over to Leon ages ago. I`m sure they`ll surface sometime.

QuoteI've still not had time to try out the variation rules yet - life getting in the way - but keep these thoughts coming!

Another thing I do when I use the variation rules is... I still use the Dungeon World 4 phase move (Initiative, Movers Action Phase, Non Mover`s Shooting Phase, and Melee Phase). I find it keeps the game interesting and intense.

;)

Six