The following pics are from a recent multi-corps Austro-Saxon v Prussian Battle
First 2 are of the battlefield and Prussian Left Flank
The fight between the Saxons and Prussians
The Prussian advance and the massing of the Saxon Cavalry Division
The Prussians are halted in front of the Austrian gun line
The Saxons press on and begin to envelop the Prussian right
View from the Prussian line
The Prussians on the left and centre are totally stalled and held in check with the Saxons so admit defeat
That's a very impressive table Bernie - nicely done 8)
Hi Nik
It will be getting another outing at Salute when hope to do a couple of multi-corp battles during the day
Bernie
Quote from: Bernie on 28 March 2011, 09:43:03 PM
Hi Nik
It will be getting another outing at Salute when hope to do a couple of multi-corp battles during the day
Bernie
Excellent - I can't get to Salute - but I reckon you'll get a load of interest - don't forget to take your camera!
Great looking table. I'm sure you will get a lot of interest at Salute.
I'll be popping by with the camera I think!
Bernie,
It looks truly fabulous - and I cannot wait to see it at SALUTE and get my hands on copies of the new rules! But.......... as Saxon nitpicker in chief........... cannot we do something about those invented Saxon flags?! To have the brave subjects of King John going into battle under such spurious banners when all the originals still exist, and Baccus do excellent examples of the real all green flags, is just too much for a man to bear. The shame, the shame!
Yours in sorrow,
Mollinary
Yes! Another player who flocks his bases the same way as his table! Another player who gets it!
And all the rest is up to par. This is a beautiful lay-out, man. Truly magnificent.
Can you tell us a little bit more about the various buildings used?
Cheers,
Aart
Quote from: mollinary on 29 March 2011, 09:09:13 AM
...cannot we do something about those invented Saxon flags?! To have the brave subjects of King John going into battle under such spurious banners when all the originals still exist, and Baccus do excellent examples of the real all green flags, is just too much for a man to bear.
Have you got a link to an accurate picture, so that I can check the one on our flagsheets?
Leon,
Of course, only too happy. Although if I recall correctly we had an exchange of correspnodence and material on this about three years ago!
http://www.historischer-bilderdienst.de/fahnen-und-standarten
will get you into a site with a number of books on flags for sale. If you go down the list you will find Hottenroth on Saxon flags. If you click on that, and scroll down you will find a colour table of illustrations, enlarge it a bit and the two illustrations at the right end of the second row are both sides of the Saxon regimentfahnen in use 1866-71. On the left hand end of the bottom row are the two sides of the pattern for the new Leibfahnen issued to the enlarged regiments' first battalions in 1867. All except for the Leib Grenadier regiment, which was reissued with the one second from the left (ie the illustrations 3&4) in the 2nd row.
That should work. If you have any problems, please let me know.
Andrew/Mollinary
PS, you could also sneak a look on the Baccus site!
Thanks for that, much appeciated. Any previous conversations will probably have been with Dave I think. We've not got those flags in our sheets, so I may have to get hold of a bigger copy of that from somewhere and have a go at drawing it up.
PS, had a sneaky look at Baccus, I could always ask Pete if we could buy some resized sheets... :D
Leon,
Good idea, I am sure Peter would be willing to oblige(?), although as I said I think his are well sized for 10mm anyway. They are a result of an appeal he put out for flag information when he was producing the figure ranges , and the appeal awakened (the only lightly slumbering!) flag geek/nerd within me. I had become fascinated by the German states' flags of this period, and been allowed to see some of the originals kept in the German Army museum in Dresden when I visited there some years ago. I may be able to e-mail you an example I sent to Mike Embree to help him with his book on the Saxons of this period. I'll see if I've still got it.
Regards
Andrew/Mollinary
Leon,
Sorry, just remembered that the file was too big to e-mail, so I posted it instead.
regards
Andrew
Final offer - I could bring something along to SALUTE which might help.
Regards
Andrew
Could someone translate! 1870 Saxons are on the painting Menu right after after Hessians and Gaurd Corps (so about 2019)
Hi Molinary
My excuse for the Saxon flags being they were done about a decade ago!
For the Hanoverian Corps and the Federal Corps which will be making a showing at Salute the flags should be more to your liking!
Bernie
Regarding the buildings they are right mixture of anything I could get hold of.
However instead of using 6mm buildings which have been mentioned on other threads, the groundscale can cope with using 10mm when using a 6 x 4 ft table or even bigger.
There is therefore a mixture of 10mm Timecast, Langton Miniatures, 15mm Architectural Heritage (which are closer to 12mm) and bring and buys bargains from over the years.
Bernie
Quote from: Bernie on 29 March 2011, 07:20:50 PM
Regarding the buildings they are right mixture of anything I could get hold of.
However instead of using 6mm buildings which have been mentioned on other threads, the groundscale can cope with using 10mm when using a 6 x 4 ft table or even bigger.
There is therefore a mixture of 10mm Timecast, Langton Miniatures, 15mm Architectural Heritage (which are closer to 12mm) and bring and buys bargains from over the years.
Bernie
Thx, Bernie. They look terrific.
Cheers,
Aart
Quote from: mollinary on 29 March 2011, 03:05:22 PM
Final offer - I could bring something along to SALUTE which might help.
That'd be great, I'll never get chance to do anything with them until after Salute anyway! There's a load of flags I want to get busy sorting to increase the range.
Bernie,
OK, You're forgiven! Look forward to seeing the Hanoverians.
Lemmey, s
Sorry for getting all Vexillogical, it is a pretty arcane subject. Essentially the flags you can see on Bernie's Saxons reflect an idea put up on WARFLAG some years ago. They were "conjectural" and covered Saxon, Hessian, Baden, and Wurttemburg if I recall correclty. Unfortunately, all of them were wrong! I managed to get hold of a number of sources in German, and got into an e-mail exchange with the historian at the German Army Museum in Dresden who informed me that they still had the Saxon flags for this period, and would I like to come and have a look. A bit of a dream invitation for me, so I went, and they got some examples out of their stores. I also managed to get a booklet that their local military history circle had produced including colour photographs of all the flags. Since then I have been on something of a one man crusade (or you could say obsession) to introduce the correct flags to wargames, and to find more about Saxon flags going back to the Napoleonic Wars. Well it passes the time you know. Anyway apologies if it confused anybody, and I'll shut up now!
Regards
Mollinary
Please don't shut up, I have the 1870 Wurttenberg division on the table right now, I'd just like to know they're waving the right flags (not just white flags)...
I know some of my Prussians are usingthe wrong flag for their formation, some have the 'generic' Pendraken version 1 flags, and some are using their correct flgas and others are waving Pendraken version 2, depends which Division and which Corps you're facing.
Any info (updates) welcome and if you are planning to let the boys produce the correct Saxon flags, I'd buy them, like a shot...
Quote from: Aart Brouwer on 29 March 2011, 09:14:22 AM
Yes! Another player who flocks his bases the same way as his table! Another player who gets it!
I have never understood why some people spend hours doing up the bases only to put them on a table that is completely different. :-/
Lemmey,
As you say the Prussian army is a very complex one in flag terms, even though the majority of flags were of broadly the same design. Expansions during the century led to new patterns, a small number of grenadier regiments carried the shreds, or even just the poles of flags going back to Frederick the Great. Others of the early regiments, the first thirty or forty (!) also had very badly worn, torn, or disintegrated flags. And then there are the small duchies from Thuringia, Mecklenburg etc who had their own pattern. I did a lot of research into all this a few years ago. Your Wurttemburgers should be carrying red (more or less crimson) flags with coat of arms on one side, and the Royal monogram in gold on the other. The only differentiation by regiment was the colour of the fringe around the edge. Purely coincidentally, I was browsing an auction house site the other day, Hermann Historica in Munich. They have a big upcoming militaria auction on, and in the catalogue (nicely illustrated on line) for pre 1918 militaria are two samples for the Wurttemburg cavalry flags for the 1850s. They are framed, and show the designs for both sides. These are identical to the infantry ones. I would recommend you pop along for a look, even if you don't shell out the 2,500 euros reserve to secure them!
Cheers
Mollinary
Did you see this website ?
http://www.universalhandel24.de/standarten-und-regimentsfahnen/
They seem to make a whole range of 19th century flags.
This game looks like the Austro-Prussian game from Real Time Wargames. I've just purchased the Franco-Prussian version and this has inspired me to get on with this period once my Austrian SYW army is complete.
DP
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 04 April 2011, 02:58:38 PM
This game looks like the Austro-Prussian game from Real Time Wargames. I've just purchased the Franco-Prussian version and this has inspired me to get on with this period once my Austrian SYW army is complete.
DP
That'll be cos Bernie wrote those rules! :D
Thanks for the flag site Maciek.
DP
Macirk,
That is a great site - pity they are not always clear as to exaclty what period the flag relates to. Also, I would doubt that they reflect those flags which had different designs on each of the two sides. That said, it is still great to see such an incredible number of exampes from this period.
Mollinary
If you speak German...
Very nice table indeed, will drop by at salute and have a look at the real thing!
Quote from: NTM on 30 March 2011, 08:10:17 AM
I have never understood why some people spend hours doing up the bases only to put them on a table that is completely different. :-/
I use different coloured bases to differentiate between battalions in multi-battalion regiments. :-B
Very nice; good to see another player as concerned with the terrain as with figures/basing. Sorry I won't be at Salute, good luck.