Pendraken Miniatures Forum

So, its official. Rick P is finally set to release Hail Caesar 'sometime' in April so will you be buying it?

In traditional Grumpy Old Man mode >:( - its a yes from me but not without a moan first ;D

I still think £30 (not including postage) is steep for a rulebook.

I'm not a fluff man. I find Rick's 'talk to wargamers as if they are children' narration style to be quite churlish. :d

Does the book really need all the eye candy? Wouldn't the space that could be served by sticking to the point and halving the eye candy be better put to use in having army lists?

Rant over, credit card spanked and no doubt I'll be venting my spleen again when the book arrives late due to unforseen circumstances beyond our control!

"No" from me. I'm quite happy with the Warmaster Ancients/Medievals range of rules.

Funnily enough we were talking about this at the club last week. The consensus was that it would impact upon the WAB/FoG gamers rather than WMAs. I agree that it is expensive for a rulebook, especially one without any 'lists' that I for one always appreciate in a book.

I'll not be getting them in April - I too am quite happy with Warmaster Ancients used for Fantasy though.

My main gaming partner is keen on the sound Hail Caesar though, so I will probably see how they play.

I've voted yes - although I won't get them in April - I'll wait until they're discounted in someone's sale at some point [or pick up a good secondhand copy from someone who's bought them & doesn't like them  ;)]

I won't play them though - I'm way too much sold on WMA / WMM as my coolio rulesets [& they don't give every unit a shooting ability - which seems to be completely  bonkers if you ask me] - the book'll get the coffee table treatment...for flick-value  :)

voted nope.....could buy a lot of 10mm figures for that price  :D

I'll be getting it for trial and reading. But I won't give up WMA/WMM for it. Unless it's reeeeally good which I doubt.

Voted no, still have an unused crusader rulebook + army lists lying here and we end up playing HOTT most of the time anyway coz it's so fast and simple.

I'm a no person too.
£30 is too much and I'm happy with HOTT, DBM and SoHB

Yes cause I get shed loads of Amazon vouchers, so in effect free.

IanS

probably not. I'm not much into ancients nowadays - £30 is fair i think for a good quality rulebook that gets used but as a casual read its a bit too much. If the mechanisms are fun then i may juist be tempted - i'll probably wait to see how well it performs under review.

Is there a 'maybe' catagory, I'd like to play it first, see how busted it is, before I  commit to spending my cash on it...

I've spent so much on rulebooks lately I doubt it. I just picked up Impetvs and Blackpowder and $90 was sucked from my wallet. I wonder how much different from his WMA it will be. I do like WMA as well as Impetvs and I'm also looking to get the new Polemos ancients set coming soon.

Based on what I have read so far these will be my rules of choice for Ancient/Medieval but I will not be buying yet. Like Nik I will wait for discounted copies to show up. Also this year I have decided to concetrate on WW2 in general and NWE in particular this year so do not need any more distractions.

Nope, sorry really dislike the entire Warmaster engine. Has some fun ideas for Fantasy, in fact love it for my 10mm fantasy figures but the whole concept is deeply flawed as a representation of warfare. It is a fun game but that is it.

There are just too many other great games out there to bother with this warmed over Games Workshop rehash of 1970s wargame ideas. Take a look at Hoplamachi for Greek warfare by the Perfect Captain a fantastic take on the warfare of the period, Shattered lances and Iron Bow for a great take on the Crusades. There is so much innovative stuff out there that is trying to capture the period I just don’t have the time to figure out ways to make for example Black Powder actually work!

I want to try and capture history on my table not play with toy soldier!  ;)

Now of course that is all in my humble opinion and as much as I don’t like to admit it, every one has the right to disagree
;)

William

I believe that this months Wargames Illustrated will have a Hail Caeser battle report for those that are interested. I'm not one of them by the way.

Yes from me. I'll wait for the Amazon discount though, just like I did for Black Powder. Still a confirmed Warmaster addict though.

Its now available through the Warlord Games website and Ebay through Arcane Games who I have ordered items from and have been quite happy with too.

If I hadn't been such an impatient puppy I could have saved myself a few quid. :( I'll be fecking furious if Warlord take weeks to deliver because Iknow that Arcane Scenery are pretty quick generally speaking.

Let us know what you think of it when it arrives Nosher. Not that I'll be buying it though, although I expect it to make an appearance at the club soon.

No, WRG put me off ancients thirty years ago and nothing I've seen since has made me want to try again. >:(

The wife just sent a text message to say that yet another rather large and heavy parcel crashed onto the doormat this lunchtime ;) Look like no nookie for me for a week or two for buying yet more wargaming stuff :(

Still, at least I have some new reading material! ;D

Exactly Nosher, not as if you'd have time for anything but reading anyway, eh? :)

A mate brought my copy home from Salute. I picked the book up from his place yesterday, only had time to leaf through it as we set up a Blackpowder ACW game (which the North then proceeded to loose pretty badly, sigh). I'm looking forward to giving my Carthaginians a spin soon however. :)

I'm enjoying BP and will no doubt play this new offering, but I need to buy more toys before more rules :D

OK, so I have had a few days to browse HC, have set up one or two small skirmishes to get my head around the mechanics and some glorious sunshine in which to do it, so here are my first impressions.

There is still way too much fluff for an experienced gamer. 12 pages before I read of something I was unfamiliar with and then another 20 pages before I got to something else I needed to think about. I had hoped this would be an anomaly but sadly all the way through the book the pattern repeated itself.

On one page there is even a recipe for snails - which surely is a first for a wargames book.

The photography throughout is stunning, the batreps interesting but maybe a trick missed in terms of showing how specific game mechanics work.

The rules are handily summarised towards the end of the book which for anyone experienced in the Warmaster stable who just wants to get on with the game instead of reading churlish drivel, I would recommend they go straight there.

Not unsuprisingly there are no army lists as such - only similar lists to those published in BP, although specific mention is made in the book to supplements... any of this sound familiar?

There are some very interesting terminologies - Marksman Archers?

Even more annoyingly for a book that touts iself as covering up to the middle ages/the 100YW and the advent of gunpowder, there are no rules for longbows, stakes, or gunpowder weapons.

All of that said I do find myself more attracted to the rules far more than I was BP. The game play does flow quite well and there are subtle differences to the play. Play patterns appear quite intuitive and should provide for fun games.

Will this be a regular staple? I think it might be and I'm keen to give it a go.

Will I buy any supplements? I seriously doubt it.

Is the book worth £30? Given that I will probably only ever use the last twenty or so pages and given that I am reknowned for being a tight fisted miserable bar-steward, I would have to say no.

With a bit of luck I might even cobble together a batrep for a smallish 100YW game I am planning for the weekend

Quote from: Nosher on 21 April 2011, 01:41:09 PMWith a bit of luck I might even cobble together a batrep for a smallish 100YW game I am planning for the weekend.

Please do. I suppose we all recognise your understandable frustration and don't mind the occasional gush of bile or righteous invective on your part - as long as we get a general idea of how playable this thing is.

Cheers,
Aart

Mmmmmm. Recognisable frustration - yes. Gush of bile? Righteous invectives? I'm not sure I follow?

I thought it was an honest review of something I have invested in and am therefore am entitled to an opinion about. Sadly I find that too many product reviews are written by people who are fans of a product or worse still have been involved in the marketing and design of products. Thats not just a problem within this hobby but a problem everywhere you turn.

I actually like what I see in terms of mechanics , just not a fan of the writing style which I find childish. I am genuinely looking forward to playing a game.

Quote from: Nosher on 21 April 2011, 03:05:23 PM
Gush of bile? Righteous invectives? I'm not sure I follow?

Hmm. "Churlish drivel", "annoying", etcetera certainly qualify as such. And like I said, you're fully entitled to use them, but do give us that more detailed report of a battle if you please, I'm sure others are interested in the mechanics as well.

Cheers,
Aart

"I've read them through with gusto. I understood the rules and admired the underlying system, marvelled at the diagrams and was generally pleased by the whole lay-out. And then I decided I would never, ever play these rules. It's a monster, a barrage of rules and exceptions and developers' private quirks two-hundred pages thick. Totally unplayable. It would entirely destroy my appetite for wargaming. It's a real shame."

And I wouldn't be the first...people in glass houses etc

Cheers

Nosher

Nosher, snap out of it. I wasn't criticising your style, I was sympathising with it and that's all there was to it.

Happy bunnies, man!

Cheers,
Aart

I've been following the development of this in WI. It's not really a wargaming style which I like and as I have already bought into Impetus, which I do like, it's unlikely I'll ever get these. I didn't much like the look of Black Powder either.
DP :(