A topic has come up on the Facebook group that we need some help with please. It concerns using suppressive fire to KO armour. A player used small calibre mortars (so cannot cause hits on an AFV) in a suppressive role to make a unit suppressed. Next fire order he used suppressive fire again. As the tank was already suppressed it rolled for fallback, fell back more than 10cm and so was KO'd.
In 1st edition, all suppressive fire hit on a 6 rather than 4+, so KO'ing tanks with suppressive fire was possible, but difficult. That paragraph has been omitted from 2nd edition though, so now small calibre mortars rolling for suppression (hitting on a 4+) are more effective against AFVs than off-table artillery (hitting on a 6+). Is this correct?
Thanks
Hi Andrew.
See P40 of the rulebook 6th paragraph. I think it answers your question.... they only suppress on a 6 so it is still difficult to kill a unit by forcing fall back of 11+.
Med mors have 3D6 each. It would need 1x6 on an order to suppress, then get 2 or more 6s in a subsequent order, to force the 11+ fallback/destruction. A battery of 2 or 3 med mors (6D6 or 9D6) would certainly increase the odds to achieve suppression and then a fall back of 11+.
Rgds
Chris
QuoteA topic has come up on the Facebook group that we need some help with please. It concerns using suppressive fire to KO armour. A player used small calibre mortars (so cannot cause hits on an AFV) in a suppressive role to make a unit suppressed. Next fire order he used suppressive fire again. As the tank was already suppressed it rolled for fallback, fell back more than 10cm and so was KO'd.
In 1st edition, all suppressive fire hit on a 6 rather than 4+, so KO'ing tanks with suppressive fire was possible, but difficult. That paragraph has been omitted from 2nd edition though, so now small calibre mortars rolling for suppression (hitting on a 4+) are more effective against AFVs than off-table artillery (hitting on a 6+). Is this correct?
Thanks
Thanks Andrew T
No, that is not correct.
It is an omission errata.
The intention was to totally remove the ability of suppression fire, inflicted by units that cannot cause hits (casualties), to then cause their target units to fallback and therefore KO (if that makes sense?).
In other words ... if a unit (like the small mortars you mention) suppresses a Main Battle Tank (for example), it doesn't then matter however many other suppression hits it receives from other units that can also only suppress it, it will just remain suppressed and will not fallback (& therefore cannot be KO'd).
However, if it is suppressed by the light mortars etc. and then it it hit by any other units that can inflict a potential hit on it, it will be forced to fallback and potentially be KO'd.
Also, you only suppress on 6 anyway - as Superscribe states above :)
Hopefully that is helpful? I'm very happy for you to post this up on the FB page, if that would be helpful.
I'm sorry the debate has been 'raging' on FB ... I don't (& wont) 'do' Facebook ... so it's best to post rules queries here if you want any sort of official ruling.
We are due shortly (please don't hold your breath ;D ) to reprint CWCII and this will go into the reprint, and the on-line PDF and into the errata.
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark and Chris
Completely missed that paragraph in the rulebook so thanks for that. Apparently the 2 players concerned had forgotten to roll saving throws for the AFVs getting attacked, so that certainly wouldn't have helped! I have directed them here for any official rule clarifications.
I always liked the idea that it was theoretically possible for small arms to KO an AFV via suppressive fire and fall back, but it would take some smart work with the dice. Having a rule that small arms can suppress but not KO would make sense though. Perhaps the wording for the paragraph on fall back could be altered? Something like, "If a suppressed unit suffers further suppression from unsaved hits (as opposed to suppressive fire), do not roll for suppression again..."
Quote from: Andrew T on 23 June 2025, 07:43:02 PMHi Mark and Chris
Completely missed that paragraph in the rulebook so thanks for that. Apparently the 2 players concerned had forgotten to roll saving throws for the AFVs getting attacked, so that certainly wouldn't have helped! I have directed them here for any official rule clarifications.
I always liked the idea that it was theoretically possible for small arms to KO an AFV via suppressive fire and fall back, but it would take some smart work with the dice. Having a rule that small arms can suppress but not KO would make sense though. Perhaps the wording for the paragraph on fall back could be altered? Something like, "If a suppressed unit suffers further suppression from unsaved hits (as opposed to suppressive fire), do not roll for suppression again..."
Always helpful for a rules writer to get such eloquent suggestions Andrew
Many thanks
Mark