Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => 20th Century => Topic started by: Last Hussar on 09 January 2025, 12:57:08 PM

Title: Battle of Britain turning circles
Post by: Last Hussar on 09 January 2025, 12:57:08 PM
Hello All!  :D (again)

More on my Battle of Britain turning circles.

The game is chiefly written for Spitfire (+ Hurricane) v Bf109E, however I want to put other types in, chiefly Bf110s.

For a Hurri it does a complete circle in 8 moves (45' per phase)
Spitfire 10 moves (36')
109 12 moves (30')*

Given this, what would you do with a Bf110?

* Yes,  I know technically these are a bit out. However it is a game thing - The Hurri could turn tighter than the other 2. Technically the 109 could turn as tight as the Spit, but the indication** you were 'on the edge' started earlier on a 109, and it took an experienced pilot to know how much further you could go.

**For those who care it was known as 'wing warp'. As you get to the edge of the envelope a vibration pattern started on the wings, getting closer to the fuselage as you got tighter. This started earlier on the 109, so pilots wouldn't push it as far as the Spit. Experienced pilots knew they could go a bit further, but this took skill, judgement and bravery - If the thing you are flying at 350mph 15,000 feet in the air is telling you it is on the edge of falling apart; you tend to believe it!
Title: Re: Battle of Britain turning circles
Post by: Last Hussar on 10 January 2025, 06:05:48 PM
Realised this thread was going after my post on other thread  :'(


Found my original rules (on my blog!)

The turning rules are different to my memory. Which do you think are better

1) move forward half, then turn the degrees permitted,  then move the other half.

2) turn immediately, then move the full amount.

?
Title: Re: Battle of Britain turning circles
Post by: sultanbev on 10 January 2025, 09:34:53 PM
1) would be better

As for Me-110 turn circle, by a quick google of accounts, it wasn't that bad. Certainly the wing loading was comparable to the Me-109 and Spitfire, so perhaps in your example 13-14 moves to do a complete turn?
Title: Re: Battle of Britain turning circles
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 11 January 2025, 08:51:55 AM
See Mr Bevis has fallen into the old trap, its not ME109 its BF109. Pedantic but it should be correct.
Title: Re: Battle of Britain turning circles
Post by: fsn on 11 January 2025, 09:16:28 AM
Aktually  :-B it is the Bf 109, not BF 109.

 :P
Title: Re: Battle of Britain turning circles
Post by: Last Hussar on 11 January 2025, 09:29:02 AM
Ignoring the pedants... ;D (I do try to remember to get it right though)

Thanks Bev. I'll make it a little less tight than the 109, but not too much.