(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczNY7uE1TZCh5vD06JwwVJnhZW76O3SaDMu598ZEHrrXAUrdZ_CD0p8rayAYcnvIq7W0yVArDJDSgEkiMFbdKQ9EXNPTWf9TpJvfOXAJSE1qc-eIKWw=w2400)
Seems like a lifetime ago I sculpted my first 10mm figures for the Late Roman range. Actually my first ever figures. I've always meant to add to the range, but life got in the way and other projects took priority.
This year Leon suggested we finally add some opposition, so for the last few weeks I've been blitzing on these new Gothic figures. They could work for a lot of other Germanics from the 3rd to 6th centuries.
So here they are; three packs of horse and five packs of foot. Hope you like them. If these do well we may discuss adding other opposition for the Late Empire.
Infantry
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOLS7WBIO2KzzjAw65PM3zR3VtXL48HvHV7vqeHlOYB0cgDUG9m5FBLYQIqdmi9g3LQCXpxVpgvfxmpDqZUgcCFeEiDZ11XByIbbT9bzZ3f6-BBGjk=w2400)
Foot Command
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczP2BuTrZLcEVWHHagbuER-mpGA9D8Rn5wTzk1TNfu1T_D3UnAYMhf-2ZdzNRKjjUQ_UKWr_3tKOFjEVzpW9Bw0SPLWpzsu0mu68NOIXvrKpZ6BSy-E=w2400)
Unarmoured warriors
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPL4QfzjXUVb0LBuJWWS9WhsYCLb0giy4VcQhC9Yx0HO9nM4ElT3KDArM7TIYkEdCbnaLAAiYP77iutVSaVIlohUswib3bJO5_phO4DFMcuCZHV1gk=w2400)
Armoured warriors
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMRRLUzeAYIp2JlJF4dwpurAMy7uSvcB1VYhrvMcXDPkmJsPRV9GwFSdwKtRn08zUZNkj3Itmt4YpMZxNAFtXVzVMcT8SBCJU6d047GW4mZFDt4PYQ=w2400)
Skirmishers
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPIBul3S1F_2zL2VqIjLBRUTbk_6qxKHQrpjsPwCddmTXllpLMPwkCb29RAumgfnUepm-v_F7qgL8rGxeKNy2dD6TXl6_HLSVt1HfEH_ijBQO_kPSA=w2400)
Archers
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczMYx48CqOfkS3wzlvTRmkgrw93dwqYmBPkCs9Xh9o-tnTqLPHHsVg59ltVTljvWBOvenxekOPFdTGMF-o12wKlGmGugKw_UHJuSYFsx4R-l_LgFwIw=w2400)
Cavalry
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOKcShyjDq_ZUd-w96KpNMzHMj8jamoZ3CPBNgcSnXTH0wNJgrfz1MwX-0nH3MjiIhJPSgkkWtwRE9S829SuTfkHD2as9ArCzk7xdeTZUe-HgXuRMw=w2400)
Cavalry command
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOtCgM84SZLLFYNwVIs5E10Y80RGpUnDlR_c8c3MxIvkUyFZQaaFVZ1R85f8mypt4B84NF0oxDQLuQqRcF_9yk7suk7X7Sni7-veUJ4TKHxA536qM8=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPWhBq1clyEcSZBPSqdifo0yyCrz_n_LqJamseohupNv_Ovv6Gr9GmdlcuQX9mcV4LxblMJE6JB4CP_G-1EEJQwbgDLDlL9Is4Xj7mN9I33NNhcSH8=w2400)
Armoured cavalry
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPDsG6m_VOaRs4nW6fLu2e1qj1kAAfCefQHHbssxpNkUEIoYCESr6HUdX5ye6lcWPy7OzW3hwTlpd94K5WGWCqK_Ec-emW7W9z4kBoAPAeRKA7CGDk=w2400)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPCA9ikkVNcYgHTaG49ns87PmPwKnNrjxQ1M8A93YKqRNLwx07jp0LtzbZxXJJYEygvqlguKs95JYz9aUWOw7HtS5fjQLrGU8J96oXQSXfsI_IPrLQ=w2400)
Unarmoured cavalry
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczOeNM8eSscUYR1LNrn1VDWwYwD3ui3EMKr2aR2EW6wtMYQjPCYM_FvWzk0xOl581FMwK541S3FLtNTOZ4rQZ95uDJxtERXzf1Zn_3qT1Uw0MUOIFEQ=w2400)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczPj_fwNEz1Y_yHaWqZIYylQ_U1cMHtlGOrltAyzue4_o6QzHU9I57h90uVoTm2-gOZSb_NMQvGVKhGpmmnpCYZS0eHHXpO2lZ7OuTN42mxSyWD2F_g=w2400)
Excellent work as always.
Those are utterly gorgeous Clib.
Really beautiful
Belting work, Clib ! :-bd
Wow, you are an evil man - but a sculptor of sheer GENIUS! Temptation - now, some additional Sassanids, and maybe some Sarmatians, that would be something!
Some 'noble' armoured & helmeted Gothic cavalry on half-armoured horses would also complete the range.
They are, however, as always, beautiful sculpts - well done.
Beautiful work as always Clib 8) !
Oh wow!
Not expecting these - but really lovely!
Could well see buying some of these (I'll not mention the big pile of Late Romans who haven't got to the front of the queue in over 10 years...)
:-bd =D> :-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Wow!! Just .... wow!
Wot they said, lovely!
Cheers Paul
Mmm, a long-needed range, and very tasty they look. Request - one reads of a very distinctive Gothic shield type (last on the right below) used by the foot (and counter-claims that it never existed)....
Quote from: FierceKitty on 06 August 2024, 07:53:06 PMMmm, a long-needed range, and very tasty they look. Request - one reads of a very distinctive Gothic shield type (last on the right below) used by the foot (and counter-claims that it never existed)....
I am aware of at least one respected military historian that thinks that the 'coffin' shields are a misinterpretation of a particular carving/sculpture. I'll see if I can find that reference & post here.
I know they aren't universally accepted.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 06 August 2024, 08:19:45 PMI know they aren't universally accepted.
I agree, and I have them in my collection of 15mm Goths, to differentiate between differing gothic contingents in the same force.
Excellent sculpts Clib
+1 on all the comments. Your usual great work, Clibinarium. Still a great fan of your LoA sculpts.
Lovely
=D> =D> =D>
On the Coffin shield myth see "The Goths" by Michael von Essen published by the Society of Ancients ISBN 978-1-83830-000-5 p47 No archeological evidence. (which suggests round and some square/rectangular shields) the fancy shield was popularised by the Funckens (known to have used a lot of imagination in "Le costume et les armes des soldats de tous les temps" beloved by 1960s schoolboy wargamers like what I was.) Essen discusses sketches of long demolished Roman columns in the C16-C18 which just might have been a source.
So If Leon does pick up the "separate shields in 10mm" challenge, he should go square/rectangular option.
Meanwhile, these are glorious figures and I will undoubtedly buy several of each pack.
Unfortunately: Again following Essen, there should be more with longer hair, moustaches but not beards following Scandinavian practice and Roman mercenary service (crew cuts). So maybe mix in some of the LR figures into your Goth armies. Or, of course, use them as other and hairier barbarians like the German tribes or Anglo Saxon invaders.
All together now:
We want Huns, We want Huns .... 8-> 8-> 8->
PS Before someone else says so, letting your beard grow after a weeks heavy campaigning is not hard to imagine.
One other 'request'/observation - the lovely standard bearers need draco windsock-type standards on their poles, or to be cast separately please :D
Shameful confession: I have used Mongols as proxy Huns.
Excellent as always Clib
Quote=D> =D> =D>
All together now:
We want Huns, We want Huns .... 8-> 8-> 8->
👍 Yes indeed, we most certainly want Huns 😉
Why does they wants Hunnses for, Precious? Are they a killer army? Are they nice as fish?
These look great, definitely interested in where this range heads
QuoteShameful confession: I have used Mongols as proxy Huns.
Well needs must.
As long as you filed off all the stirrups. :d :d :d
I was quite excited, but DecemDave has put me off. :^o
Thanks all; the kind words mean a lot because these were hard work, well, the cavalry more than infantry.
To address some points raised-
Might add heavier armoured horse by converting the greens once these are cast.
Coffin shields; I'm in the camp that rejects them. It is possible that its a misinterpretation of a long hexagonal shield. I doubt there's much appetite for separate shields in 10mm; with these figures a lot of time is spent integrating the shield and filling in the voids (its a bit of a design headache), so the most that could be done would be to pry them off the greensand repalce with attached hexagonal shields and cast again. Not sure I'm up for that though.
Dracos- they'll be the existing ones from the LR range.
Huns- they might be the next range to tackle, but they are exceptionally hard to get an idea of what they actually looked like. I've been researching for a while now and have some interesting images, but of all the subjects I've ever looked into they are the most obscure.
QuoteCoffin shields; I'm in the camp that rejects them. It is possible that its a misinterpretation of a long hexagonal shield. I doubt there's much appetite for separate shields in 10mm; with these figures a lot of time is spent integrating the shield and filling in the voids (its a bit of a design headache), so the most that could be done would be to pry them off the greens and replace with attached hexagonal shields and cast again. Not sure I'm up for that though.
I've now spoken to my chum, who's a Goth aficionado (published books on the subject etc.), and he's confirmed that the coffin shield is a misinterpretation in Funcken's Ancient and Medieval book from the late 1960's. It is based on a misinterpretation of a grave find from the Crimea. The archaeologists used the metal rim reinforcement to reconstruct the shape, but wrongly.
The link below might be of interest - to those who are interested :D
https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=honorius+emperor+mosaic&imgurl=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHwvSyhWIAATmQ4.jpg&imgrefurl=https://twitter.com/CatImperator/status/1767129337365778494&docid=RNuZDHztutAa6M&tbnid=nRE7I3Krt6RiPM&vet=12ahUKEwjErf7MzOOHAxXSXUEAHb7OCCkQM3oECFgQAA..i&w=800&h=810&hcb=2&itg=1&ved=2ahUKEwjErf7MzOOHAxXSXUEAHb7OCCkQM3oECFgQAA&sfr=vfe&source=sh/x/im/can/1
Its a mosaic of the emperor Honorius, shown heroically nude. The interesting part is the trophy of arms at his feet, the crossed shields. They are either conventional shields from a mosaic artists pattern book, or they are showing trophies from wars successfully completed in Honorius' reign. If so, they would likely be Gothic shields because the big victory during Honorius' reign was the destruction of Radagaisus' invasion by Stilicho. If they are Gothic, and reasoning holds they are, then you could (possibly) have the Goths with the six sided Germanic style shield (the one underneath, partly obscured by the oval one). However, my chum would bet on the oval shield with cross as being Gothic, most definitely.
The archaeological reconstruction that the Funcken shield was based on would potentially fit a hexagonal shield much better than a round one. It's perfectly possible that the Goths moved from hexagons to round or oval. As much as anything because:
1). after Adrianople they had lots of Roman equipment available and a quick repainting, even a whitewash, would make all those Roman shields useable.
2). having captured a number of major roman armouries, oval shields were probably available, in quantity.
My friend contacted Funcken about this particular 'coffin' shield back when the book was 1st published, and got a very evasive and unclear reply back. They clearly seemed to know that the 'coffin' shield was not an accurate interpretation. They also mentioned a now destroyed Roman column as 'one of the sources' for that image, but didn't name it. The column was most likely the column of Arcadius in Constantinople (Istanbul).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_of_Arcadius
Originally, the shaft was composed of 21 large carved blocks, with a statue on the top; but only the one at the base now survives. Detail of the shaft's and pedestal's decoration were however recorded in a series of drawings made between 1574 and 1575 and now preserved in the Freshfield Album (Trinity College, Cambridge, UK), which are attributed to the Flemish artist Lambert de Vos. The carvings on the remaining parts of the structure have since been largely obliterated by vandalism, fire and erosion. These carving most probably depicted Visigoth warriors and the shields depicted in the drawings are of the round or oval kind.
NB: the Funcken illustration also shows the Gothic infantryman as being armoured. However, the armour the figure is wearing is taken from a coin from the reign of Alaric II, who was around in 490 to 507 AD, which was copied from Roman coins and is a portrait of a king, so it's unlikely to be what a common soldier was wearing, especially a foot soldier.
So, in short, I think (as does my learned friend) that the 'coffin' shield was just made up.
Early on you might get away with a few long-hexagonal shields for your Goths, but your on safer ground with round or oval ones (or rectangular wicker ones for your Sarmatisized Black Sea Goths - but that's another discussion altogether ;D )
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: fsn on 07 August 2024, 02:05:22 PMI was quite excited, but DecemDave has put me off. :^o
;D I trust not. Everyone must buy LOTS! Just scatter in lots of LR codes post Adrianople. And as Clibinarium initially suggested use them to create multiple Germanic armies . OR if you want your Goths beardy and coffin shielded, go for it. Heck I'm the guy whose ECW Royalists have LoA officers because I liked the hairstyles!
Quote from: clibinarium on 07 August 2024, 02:12:32 PMHuns- they might be the next range to tackle, but they are exceptionally hard to get an idea of what they actually looked like. I've been researching for a while now and have some interesting images, but of all the subjects I've ever looked into they are the most obscure.
For such a noble cause as a new range, the Society of Ancients forum could help? Reading suggests some would be quite LR looking in the later stages (looting). Probably use your Goths as subject peoples. Main need is your dynamic style brought to a dozen light tribal horse archer poses so they look like a fast moving swarm not a rank of volley fire on horseback. Some on Ponies/Small horses for the earlier ones. No beards (deliberate scarring is documented?) Some shaved heads. Sword side arm. No stirrups.
Quote from: DecemDave on 08 August 2024, 07:36:06 AMSome on Ponies/Small horses for the earlier ones. No beards (deliberate scarring is documented?) Some shaved heads. Sword side arm. No stirrups.
Was artificial cranial deformation also practiced by Hunnic tribes? (although in 10mm that might be a bit pointless)
The 'hun' range could also be extended to include the Hephthalite Huns (more Sassanian/central Asian steppe looking) and Xiongnu (early cataphract and armoured lancer types) - as a thought.
I wasn't aware of that image as evidence for gothic shields, my understanding was this was the main support (the weapons in the lower two panels);
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6109/6288046155_792f2dec48_b.jpg)
This must be the imfamous Funcken; the pattern on the shield is pretty clearly taken from the diptych, but I am not sure how they got that shape. Personally I tend to be pretty cautious of reconstructions if they are more than 20 years old anyway.
(https://www.bedetheque.com/media/Planches/PlancheA_153762.JPG)
My feeling is though that hexagonal shields were possibly used in the earlier years, say the early 3rd century, but the figures need to work well into the 6th century. Given that I had to make an either/or choice, I went with round shields.
This discussion accords with what BI writes- http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=185238
Some conversions with looted Roman gear are a possible addition in the future.
Absolutely brilliant figures. Nuff said.
Quote from: Scolty on 08 August 2024, 02:05:45 PMAbsolutely brilliant figures. Nuff said.
I totally agree :D
Do we have a store eta yet, I keep returning to this thread... :D
QuoteDo we have a store eta yet, I keep returning to this thread... :D
Stop it!
I've been trying very hard not to ask that question!
I didn't mean it!
Any idea of the likely date to go on sale?
It'll likely be 2025 at this point, I'm still working on our March/April projects!
;D
Now wondering what the March/April projects are...
Quote from: Corso on 13 August 2024, 08:38:10 PMNow wondering what the March/April projects are...
https://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,22858.0.html
Some of these figures will make excellent additions to my Saxon armies for Arthurian Britain.
Quote from: streetgang on 15 August 2024, 02:30:46 AMSome of these figures will make excellent additions to my Saxon armies for Arthurian Britain.
I was thinking the same
Might even make me restart thr dux britanniarum project
Stunning, any chance of a revamp for the Sassanid Persians?
Quote from: Corso on 13 August 2024, 08:38:10 PMNow wondering what the March/April projects are...
Woohoo! Amazons!
Wow, those look amazing.
I'm still wondering whether they're actually from one of the newer 18mm ranges.
Something I love abut 10mm is the flexibility of figure types as look-alike proxies or through paint conversions.
Fierce, trousered round-shield spearmen can find a home in a massive number of European armies from approx 3-800AD.
Coffin shields lack that sort of flexibility.
The range has all the right features to sell well.
Any update on the release of these?
Quote from: Corso on 14 March 2025, 09:23:11 AMAny update on the release of these?
No real update yet, they've actually just arrived at Pendraken HQ this morning so they'll be going down to the moulding queue next week. We've got a load of ACW and WWII moulds to work through first and then the Goths will be next in line.
Thanks for the update
https://www.ospreypublishing.com/uk/goths-ad-200700-9781472863065/
Because of course, of course, a new book has to be published the year after I sculpt a range. This is maybe the third time this has happened to me.
All the same, looking forward to it.
Quote from: clibinarium on 21 March 2025, 01:15:51 PMBecause of course, of course, a new book has to be published the year after I sculpt a range. This is maybe the third time this has happened to me.
I've not moulded them yet if there's some new info that requires sculpt tweaks...! :D