Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sunray on 10 September 2023, 09:03:18 AM

Title: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Sunray on 10 September 2023, 09:03:18 AM
I am basing up a small RN shore party group for a Far East Game as the war nears an end. 

The images in b/w from Hong Kong show ratings in "whites" and steel helmets.

My query- the helmets look to be light in colour. Where they battleship grey?
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: fsn on 10 September 2023, 09:24:14 AM
The Osprey on the subject is not explicit, but does say that "sun helmets" were covered in khaki. "The khaki was more serviceable than the white."

Mayhap khaki? 
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: fsn on 10 September 2023, 09:34:21 AM
(https://laststandonzombieisland.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/sept-13-1945-1945-royal-navy-landing-party-heads-for-shore-at-hong-kong-from-the-hms-indomitable-background-to-guard-key-points-as-british-forces-move-in-to-conduct-surrender-of-japan.jpg)
https://laststandonzombieisland.com/2018/09/13/jacks-and-enfields-73-years-ago-today/ (https://laststandonzombieisland.com/2018/09/13/jacks-and-enfields-73-years-ago-today/)
Mixed?

Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 10 September 2023, 12:40:23 PM
Navy tin bowlers were blue?
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Sunray on 10 September 2023, 12:49:28 PM
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 10 September 2023, 12:40:23 PMNavy tin bowlers were blue?


Thanks for this.

Yes, they were post war, and for boarding parties in my service time.  The WW2 image looks light for blue, but you could be right!

Might even be a couple of shades going by the image....
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: fsn on 10 September 2023, 02:05:29 PM
(https://imcsmilitaria.com/photos/68857.jpg)(https://bid.candtauctions.co.uk/images/lot/1319/131914_0.jpg?1645190523)(https://bid.candtauctions.co.uk/images/lot/1679/167976_0.jpg?1665618725)
(https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/CTAuctioneers/18/609118/H20253-L121377108.jpg)

(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/185/449/large_000000.jpg)(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/185/453/large_000000.jpg)(https://i.servimg.com/u/f68/19/34/87/75/tm/casque17.jpg)(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81-wwii-%D0%BF%D1%83-%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%91%D1%82%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B7-%D1%83%D1%88%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85-%D1%81%D1%83-%D0%BD-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE-%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%BE-%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D1%84-%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0-50667909.jpg?w=576)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XvJdufpfXZk/sddefault.jpg)(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/E2DNHX/royal-navy-anti-aircraft-gunners-ww2-E2DNHX.jpg)(https://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/attachments/3/8/3/20777.attach)

https://bid.candtauctions.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/119/lot/40272?uact=5&aid=119&lid=40274&current_page=0 (https://bid.candtauctions.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/119/lot/40272?uact=5&aid=119&lid=40274&current_page=0)
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimage.invaluable.com%2FhousePhotos%2FCTAuctioneers%2F18%2F609118%2FH20253-L121377108.jpg&tbnid=KYsfvr87YjrqNM&vet=12ahUKEwjMwoGil6CBAxXxrycCHdsoDnQQMygRegQIARBx..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.invaluable.com%2Fauction-lot%2Fww2-royal-navy-landing-crafts-camouflaged-steel-c-639-c-4b5444ebdd&docid=76KZDIMETvK6WM&w=750&h=457&q=royal%20navy%20helmet%20wwii&ved=2ahUKEwjMwoGil6CBAxXxrycCHdsoDnQQMygRegQIARBx (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fimage.invaluable.com%2FhousePhotos%2FCTAuctioneers%2F18%2F609118%2FH20253-L121377108.jpg&tbnid=KYsfvr87YjrqNM&vet=12ahUKEwjMwoGil6CBAxXxrycCHdsoDnQQMygRegQIARBx..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.invaluable.com%2Fauction-lot%2Fww2-royal-navy-landing-crafts-camouflaged-steel-c-639-c-4b5444ebdd&docid=76KZDIMETvK6WM&w=750&h=457&q=royal%20navy%20helmet%20wwii&ved=2ahUKEwjMwoGil6CBAxXxrycCHdsoDnQQMygRegQIARBx)


This one would suggest generally grey, later khaki ... but we're talking the generally.
https://marine-40s.forumactif.org/t63-un-casque-mkii-ww2-de-la-royal-navy-sans-doute-de-motor-torpedo-boat (https://marine-40s.forumactif.org/t63-un-casque-mkii-ww2-de-la-royal-navy-sans-doute-de-motor-torpedo-boat)
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 10 September 2023, 02:43:09 PM
Nice one Nobby  8)
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Sunray on 10 September 2023, 03:55:13 PM
Outstanding Nobby! :)

And thank you for taking so much trouble.
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 10 September 2023, 05:24:23 PM
The helmet green is Brown Violet 887
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Sunray on 10 September 2023, 05:40:00 PM
At least 4 colour schemes here- not accounting for weathering.

Q1: Did the colour vary with the theatre?

Q2: The most common cause to don a helmet would be "Action Stations" - at sea in the Atlantic, Artic convoys,the Med or -Far East. So in most cases, the colour would not need to bend with land based colours.

Q3. Shore based stations. These always tend to be "tighter" in terms of dress order. Perhaps this is where the dark navy blue comes from ?
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: fsn on 10 September 2023, 07:00:04 PM
The last link I posted suggests that initially, RN helmets were grey, but that all helmets started being  khaki sometime during the war.

I would humbly suggest then that it is not inconceivable that RN ships would keep their grey helmets through the war (I can't see there being a huge turnover in helmets on board ship) but that ships launched during the war could well have been issued with khaki helmets.

Not blue though. 
Title: Re: royal navy shore party - far east 1945
Post by: Sunray on 10 September 2023, 10:13:05 PM
Yes, the logic makes sense. 

Wordpoint who's website claims they supply reenactors have concluded that the colour is vinyl matt grey.

Now as helmets were stored close to Action Stations these would weather and often display shades of what colour was underneath.

Sorted! :)