Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => 20th Century => Topic started by: sultanbev on 24 June 2023, 07:10:44 PM

Title: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: sultanbev on 24 June 2023, 07:10:44 PM
A pretty good overview of Soviet tanks in the Ogaden war
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2023/06/24/the-t-34-in-somalia/

Mark
Title: Re: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: Big Insect on 25 June 2023, 09:00:48 AM
Good find Mark - thanks :)
Title: Re: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: flamingpig0 on 25 June 2023, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: Big Insect on 25 June 2023, 09:00:48 AMGood find Mark - thanks :)

It is superb and we obviously need to up the number T34s in the  Somali list
Title: Re: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: Big Insect on 26 June 2023, 11:15:31 AM
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 25 June 2023, 05:25:03 PMIt is superb and we obviously need to up the number T34s in the  Somali list

Well, yes, that is a possibility - however the lists are usually a balance between the actual stats and the formations used. Restrictions such as 9 tanks per 1000pts (with 9 MBTs being the standard table-top conversion from OOB for a Soviet style Tank Regiment + Command tanks) are usually more meaningful than trying to convert 458 x T34/85s (for example) into an actual table-top number of models. It also depends upon how the formations were deployed in reality.

In the Ogaden Conflict both sides (excluding the Cubans & Kuwaitis) rarely used large all tank formations - as they had so little by way of supporting APC/IFVs relatively. They tended to use their MBTs in support of their Infantry. So requiring either side to use a compulsory number of infantry in any table-top formation, alongside the MBTs, is usually more helpful and realistic. 

It also depends a lot on how many points you want to play - so a 3,000pt game with a max of 9 MBTs per 1,000pts is actually going to produce a game that will (most likely) last a fare-few hours (more than 2-3 at least). So many lists will allow you to buy a lot of MBTs but you'll soon start to run out of points once you add in all the support, command, and compulsory infantry etc. or the game will bog down and become far too slow.
We have seen this with some of the larger weekend-long Cold War Commander Games - where a single game move might take well over an hour to complete - with so many units on the table to order & move, especially with good command rolls  :D
Title: Re: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: Scorpio_Rocks on 26 June 2023, 04:58:55 PM
Quote from: sultanbev on 24 June 2023, 07:10:44 PMA pretty good overview of Soviet tanks in the Ogaden war
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2023/06/24/the-t-34-in-somalia/

Mark

Thank you Sir!
(another Mark)
Title: Re: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: flamingpig0 on 27 June 2023, 04:32:11 AM
Quote from: Big Insect on 26 June 2023, 11:15:31 AMWell, yes, that is a possibility - however the lists are usually a balance between the actual stats and the formations used. Restrictions such as 9 tanks per 1000pts (with 9 MBTs being the standard table-top conversion from OOB for a Soviet style Tank Regiment + Command tanks) are usually more meaningful than trying to convert 458 x T34/85s (for example) into an actual table-top number of models. It also depends upon how the formations were deployed in reality.

In the Ogaden Conflict both sides (excluding the Cubans & Kuwaitis) rarely used large all tank formations - as they had so little by way of supporting APC/IFVs relatively. They tended to use their MBTs in support of their Infantry. So requiring either side to use a compulsory number of infantry in any table-top formation, alongside the MBTs, is usually more helpful and realistic. 

It also depends a lot on how many points you want to play - so a 3,000pt game with a max of 9 MBTs per 1,000pts is actually going to produce a game that will (most likely) last a fare-few hours (more than 2-3 at least). So many lists will allow you to buy a lot of MBTs but you'll soon start to run out of points once you add in all the support, command, and compulsory infantry etc. or the game will bog down and become far too slow.
We have seen this with some of the larger weekend-long Cold War Commander Games - where a single game move might take well over an hour to complete - with so many units on the table to order & move, especially with good command rolls  :D

I meant the proportion of T34s verses T55/54s
Title: Re: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: Big Insect on 27 June 2023, 07:15:34 AM
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 27 June 2023, 04:32:11 AMI meant the proportion of T34s verses T55/54s

Yes - Indeed  :)
Title: Re: Ethiopia-Somali war 1977-78
Post by: streetgang on 10 August 2023, 04:50:02 PM
A bit off topic but I have been painting up the aircraft for this war. Somali Mig 17s and 21s versus Ethiopian F5s. The Somalis had a few Il-28 Beagles (although I don't think they had more than one ineffective bombing run) and the Ethiopians had some Canberras.