Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: flamingpig0 on 11 June 2023, 03:00:40 PM

Title: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: flamingpig0 on 11 June 2023, 03:00:40 PM
Does anyone have any info on Cuban tank camouflage in the Ogaden and Angola?
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: fsn on 11 June 2023, 04:00:52 PM
Have you looked at Helion?

(https://www.helion.co.uk/images/books/i2/helion1000797.jpg)
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/war-of-intervention-in-angola-volume-1-angolan-and-cuban-forces-at-war-1975-1976.php?sid=18f9f61780eed72071cdc4d4283a2438 (https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/war-of-intervention-in-angola-volume-1-angolan-and-cuban-forces-at-war-1975-1976.php?sid=18f9f61780eed72071cdc4d4283a2438)

(https://www.helion.co.uk/images/books/i2/helion1000846.jpg)
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/war-of-intervention-in-angola-volume-2-angolan-and-cuban-forces-1976-1983.php?sid=18f9f61780eed72071cdc4d4283a2438 (https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/war-of-intervention-in-angola-volume-2-angolan-and-cuban-forces-1976-1983.php?sid=18f9f61780eed72071cdc4d4283a2438)
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: fsn on 11 June 2023, 05:44:53 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41oh%2BY%2BjqYL.jpg)
http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9217.0 (http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php?topic=9217.0)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/e5/2f/7fe52fefa26371b0a67bf421f69e39cd.jpg
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/e5/2f/7fe52fefa26371b0a67bf421f69e39cd.jpg)
Supposed to be a Cuban T55 captured by South Africans

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d5/c0/97/d5c0977807725142ee8a3015e3678fa1.jpg)
Cuban T55 in Angola
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.star-decals.net%2Fimages%2F48-B1003_02.jpg&tbnid=uH6wVxdsZ_N5tM&vet=12ahUKEwjJxfT03rv_AhUumycCHZK_CsMQMyhFegQIARB3..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.star-decals.net%2F48-B1003.html&docid=GT2ppvc5pAriqM&w=596&h=841&q=cuban%20tank%20t55&ved=2ahUKEwjJxfT03rv_AhUumycCHZK_CsMQMyhFegQIARB3 (https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.star-decals.net%2Fimages%2F48-B1003_02.jpg&tbnid=uH6wVxdsZ_N5tM&vet=12ahUKEwjJxfT03rv_AhUumycCHZK_CsMQMyhFegQIARB3..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.star-decals.net%2F48-B1003.html&docid=GT2ppvc5pAriqM&w=596&h=841&q=cuban%20tank%20t55&ved=2ahUKEwjJxfT03rv_AhUumycCHZK_CsMQMyhFegQIARB3)
(https://www.militaryimages.net/media/cuban-tank-knocked-out-by-sadf.123507/full?d=1521523711)
https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235094534-angolan-t-55-colour-and-tank-commander-uniforms-colour/ (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235094534-angolan-t-55-colour-and-tank-commander-uniforms-colour/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/zo1744/cubans_t55s_in_angola_during_the_angolan_war/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/zo1744/cubans_t55s_in_angola_during_the_angolan_war/)


I just searched for Cuban T55s. I think the plain scheme seems to be the most common. 
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: fred. on 11 June 2023, 06:33:20 PM
This is a bit of history I have completely missed. What where Cuban's doing in Angola?
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: fsn on 11 June 2023, 07:23:07 PM
Would you believe me if I said selling cigars?



They were supporting the communist MPLA in the civil war. 1975 to sometime.

That's all I've got.

Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: kustenjaeger on 11 June 2023, 07:59:54 PM
According to Wikipedia Cuba deployed up to 55,000 men at one point.
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: Scorpio_Rocks on 13 June 2023, 10:07:08 AM
The Ogaden War (Ethio-Somali War) is a fascinating conflict with loads of scope for games. Major and minor powers "interfering" (and often changing sides!) and poor Cuban conscripts on the otherside of the planet from home fighting a war even the locals dont fully understand!
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: Sunray on 13 June 2023, 01:01:25 PM
Q: Why are the Third World nations buying Soviet/WP tanks/apcs instead of British and Western models?

A: Cause they get a free Cuban with every tank!  ;D

Popular mess joke in the BAOR circa 1978.
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: Elliesdad on 13 June 2023, 09:21:41 PM
QuoteThis is a bit of history I have completely missed. What where Cuban's doing in Angola?

I believe that whereas Russian/European troops (or "advisors" if you want to call them that) might look out of place in Angola, the Cubans troops would visually look very much like the locals. The mix of Cuban troops would be some of black African heritage and others of Hispanic origin - all speaking Spanish. Although Angola had been a Portuguese colony most Spanish speaking people can understand Portuguese and vice versa. In addition comrade Fidel was in debt to the Russians, so would look to do favours to support his revolutionary brothers.

Cheers,

Geoff
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: Sunray on 14 June 2023, 06:57:21 AM
When Techno and I were researching the Middle East wars range, we made a witting effort in the case of Arab figures,to facilitate proxy applications such as African bush wars and Cubans.

Add to the mix, the proxy potential of Korea range - 40 Commando as "Mercs" and N Korean as Third world militia.

Game on!  :) 
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: toxicpixie on 30 June 2023, 12:00:32 AM
Quote from: Sunray on 14 June 2023, 06:57:21 AMWhen Techno and I were researching the Middle East wars range, we made a witting effort in the case of Arab figures,to facilitate proxy applications such as African bush wars and Cubans.

Add to the mix, the proxy potential of Korea range - 40 Commando as "Mercs" and N Korean as Third world militia.

Game on!  :) 

Just to hijack this thread... would the Egyptians or any others work decently for Polish troops of the Cold War?

They have a somewhat more "western" look but with Sov Block weapons which staring at the website the Middle East stuff might fit...
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: fsn on 30 June 2023, 10:57:04 AM
QuoteWhen Techno and I were researching the Middle East wars range, we made a witting effort in the case of Arab figures,to facilitate proxy applications such as African bush wars and Cubans.

I must make it clear that I have a great respect and admiration of friend Techno. He has many great strengths and qualities that qualify him as a gentleman and a craftsman of the highest order, but and I don't want to seem as if I am doubting the word of Friend Sunray, but I have to question that Techno was an active part in the research process.

This is, I reiterate, not to denigrate Techno's capabilities in any way, shape or form, it just seems ... uncharacteristic.

 
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: flamingpig0 on 30 June 2023, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: toxicpixie on 30 June 2023, 12:00:32 AMJust to hijack this thread... would the Egyptians or any others work decently for Polish troops of the Cold War?

They have a somewhat more "western" look but with Sov Block weapons which staring at the website the Middle East stuff might fit...

At 10mm I would say so
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: toxicpixie on 30 June 2023, 11:11:21 AM
Cheers, I think they should pass muster tbh. The later 80's Soviets with AKM/AK74 look reasonable too.

I think a green paint job instead of tan and no "smocks" should do it...
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: Sunray on 05 July 2023, 06:15:53 PM
Quote from: fsn on 30 June 2023, 10:57:04 AMI must make it clear that I have a great respect and admiration of friend Techno. He has many great strengths and qualities that qualify him as a gentleman and a craftsman of the highest order, but and I don't want to seem as if I am doubting the word of Friend Sunray, but I have to question that Techno was an active part in the research process.

This is, I reiterate, not to denigrate Techno's capabilities in any way, shape or form, it just seems ... uncharacteristic.

Phil/Techno and I have a good working relationship. I source info on uniforms and weapons. Sometimes I pass on a good pose I recall from other ranges/scales.
In the case of the Egyptians 1973 we captured the special vests for the assault on Suez that were unique to that stage of the campaign.

Phil takes these images and mocks up a figure or two. Sends me images - often coping in Leon- and we comment on it and sign off for the moulds. The design of the figures - based on my modest inputm - is 100% Techno. You will get no better sculpter in 10mm
 
The only gaff I made was in the Korean range. In the early Brits, I suggested to Techno that he copy the Vietnam Oz officer with the weapon held at high port. I neglected to tell him to make the weapon a Sten.  :(

 

 
Title: Re: asking the hive mind- Cuban Tanks
Post by: fsn on 06 July 2023, 05:25:45 PM
QuotePhil takes these images and mocks up a figure or two. Sends me images - often coping in Leon- and we comment on it and sign off for the moulds. The design of the figures - based on my modest inputm - is 100% Techno. You will get no better sculpter in 10mm
Ah! So I am correct. Techno (may the Dark Lord's breath on him be forever minty) is not so much a researcher as a designer. This has eased the disturbance in the force.

QuoteThe only gaff I made was in the Korean range. In the early Brits, I suggested to Techno that he copy the Vietnam Oz officer with the weapon held at high port. I neglected to tell him to make the weapon a Sten.  :(
(https://media.tenor.com/9WfrIIiXvkYAAAAM/screaming-invasion-of-the-body-snatchers.gif)