Looking for inspiration please chaps
I'm trying to get my straightjacketed brain to embrace basing troops in open order over four 40x20 bases
a) 5-6 figs on all bases
b) half in closed order half with 5-6 figs
c) another way
Photos of your based open order troops would be much appreciated
Quote from: rangerdad on 20 December 2022, 12:27:07 PMLooking for inspiration please chaps
I'm trying to get my straightjacketed brain to embrace basing troops in open order over four 40x20 bases
a) 5-6 figs on all bases
b) half in closed order half with 5-6 figs
c) another way
Photos of your based open order troops would be much appreciated
First a question, why 40 x 20 bases? I'm guessing it is a function of your rules.
If you are going down the route of duplicating your light elements so that you have additional open-order stands for skirmishing, it is worth remembering that when deployed for controlled skirmishing the light element was usually divided into three equal parts comprising the open-order skirmish line, close-order supports, which rotated skirmishers through the skirmish line and, finally, a close-order reserve on which the skirmish line and its supports could rally.
For wargaming purposes I think a compromise is necessary. I have open-order stands duplicating about half the close-order light element of my infantry battalions which, more or less, represents the skirmish line and supports. My armies are on a 1 figure = 10 real men ratio and I mount my open-order figures in two ranks, with a frontage of 10mm per file (or pair of figures) by 20mm deep with from two to three files (four to six pairs of figures) per stand. This gives me skirmish stands of between from 20 x 20 to 30 x 20. This solution looks right on the table and that is, in my view, about as important as anything.
The problem comes when you want to represent skirmishing 'en grande bande', which involved entire battalions of infantry as the principal assaulting body. Duplicating all infantry close-order stands with open-order stands is not really practical on either cost or storage grounds. The way I represent this is simply to extend the distance between close-order bases, which is not so aesthetically pleasing but it solves the problem. A template to represent the 'footprint' is a useful accessory.
Here's a pic of a couple of French open order skirmish stands.
(https://i.imgur.com/P38IbXn.jpg)
Our approach is not dissimilar.
We consider there are two types of light infantry
those that are permanent skirmishers, ie always fight in skirmish order, such as British 95th, German rifle battalions/companies, Turkish Rayas.
These we base in skirmish order, in 15mm it was 2 figures on a 40x 15mm base. In 10mm it will be 4 loose figures on the same size base.
Then there are the more common light infantry, which we call dual-purpose, who can fight in close order and can skirmish, or even do both at the same time. Examples are French legeres, British light battalions, and 60th regiment, Russian Jagers, US rifle battalions, Albanian elite Arnauts.
We base in close order like everything else, in 15mm 4 to a 30x 13mm base, or in 10mm 8 on a 30x 15mm base in 2 ranks.
When they are deployed in skirmish order, or part of the unit is, we have spacers we place underneath and spread the bases out.
So this is the 4th battalion, 26th Legers, 1812 at 1:10 in line
(https://i.postimg.cc/zfKND7Pb/leger-in-line.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9W4qfvR)
Austrian Grenzers I'm not so sure about. When they tried to get them to use close order they performed badly, so I will be basing them in skirmish order.
then the same unit in attack column, screened by it's light company - note the spacer base underneath the light (carabinier) company
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sxc1JPkh/10mmleger-in-attack-column-with-light-co-out.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cv4BzXv9)
Then the same unit in line, with part of the battalion thrown out as a skirmish line
(https://i.postimg.cc/9MwLHgxK/10mm-leger-in-screened-line.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CBYGj7ps)
and then the whole battalion in skirmish "attack column" an informal massed column we often read about that is how they looked to the British(https://i.postimg.cc/Gpf1jN85/10mm-leger-in-skirmish-column.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zLTMzxkC)
Imagine a whole Legere Regiment of 4-5 battalions doing that!
and then the whole battalion all deployed in skirmish line
(https://i.postimg.cc/SxXdMv4s/10mmleger-in-skirmish-line.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJpjdvnK)
We consider these dual-purpose units the best in battle, as they can do all the things a line battalion can do, but skirmish as well, in full or part, so, incredibly useful. And the French and Russians must have thought so too, as 1/3rd of their infantry regiments were such dual-purpose.
In 15mm here is an example of a permanent skirmisher unit, in this case the Livorno Jagers of the Tuscany army 1797-1806:
Our 15mm are based at 1:20 cf the 10mm at 1:10, but use the same rules, so the unit frontages are the same
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwJyH1Vd/15mm-livorno-jagers.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GHWnbTC1)
Here the back to back to show consisent frontaging
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qdrg11b9/10mm-legers-and-15mm-livorno-jagers.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzjCdtW4)
Can I ask a question about the basing, given you are using 1:10 or 1:20 figure ratios, why do you base in 2 ranks deep?
I use Volley & Bayonet rules which allow formed infantry to break up into detachments.
1st Bengal Native Infantry of Cawnpore
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52295836979_38929a4106_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nFcQnH)
One of the two wings of the battalion can deploy as detachments while the other remains formed as supports. Detachments can occupy villages or deploy in skirmish order on skirmish sabots
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52294585642_b64d2c959b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2nF6qoW)
Quote from: sultanbev on 20 December 2022, 04:13:23 PMAnd the French and Russians must have thought so too, as 1/3rd of their infantry regiments were such dual-purpose.
All French infantry skirmished, line and light. The distinction between the two was one of uniform, and by about 1809 all infantry were skirmishing everywhere.
I do similar to John.
But (whilst recognising skirmishing and open order was generally an option available to most of not all troops) I duplicate all "light" units with open order bases. And I have a number of individual skirmish figures for each battalion (for those rules that apply a SK rating or similar).
I have found that this provides sufficient flexibility to represent anything I need (occasionally I stretch and use the 'duplicates' for something other than their parent battalion <shock>)
QuoteCan I ask a question about the basing, given you are using 1:10 or 1:20 figure ratios, why do you base in 2 ranks deep?
I wanted to retain the base frontage of my 10mm to the same as the 15mm, so we can use the same rules without modification, and by chance I could get two ranks of 10mm on a base of similar depth to those we use for 15mm. At a push we could use 10mm on one side and 15mm on the other, and apart from looking weird, the rules would function perfectly.
The rules are a derivative of 2nd edition Regimental Fire & Fury, using 2x 15mm/4x 10mm per stand and a lot more morale ratings. The play sheet for the rules we've had printed out on large sheets and pinned to the wall, and includes pre-1865 19th century.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qd02XMMF/dec-2022-rules.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18VCBswS)
Batteries are 2 models for a 6-8 gun battery in 15mm, 3 models for a 10-12 gun battery. In 10mm I'll be doing 1 gun per 2 real guns.
Cheers for your responses gents, plenty of food for thought
I suspect I just need to get the visual balance between line and light right
Thanks and merry Christmas