Text only | Text with Images

Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Rules! => Cold War Commander => Topic started by: Big Insect on 27 September 2022, 04:56:53 PM

Title: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: Big Insect on 27 September 2022, 04:56:53 PM
Just been doing some (more) army list research and I am trying to establish if the USA sold or supplied 'Beehive' (flechette rounds or their official designation, antipersonnel-tracer (APERS-T) ammo to any other country?

South Vietnam seems to be an obvious contender - but I am wondering about other NATO countries.
Its use in US Recoilless Rifles and 105mm howitzers might mean that they was some military aid type supplies.

Thoughts and Info (ideally sources) would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mark
Title: Re: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: Gwydion on 27 September 2022, 06:43:32 PM
According to Deadly Metal Rain: The Legality of Flechette Weapons (https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Deadly_Metal_Rain_The_Legality_of_Fleche/Q_N5DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=XM546+flechette+rounds+Israel&pg=PA44&printsec=frontcover) p.49 the US was the only country to have utilised such rounds until Israel was found to be using them in Lebanon in the 1990s. (The USSR was accused of using their own version in Afghanistan in the 80s but that remains unproven, although Russia appears to have used them in Ukraine).
Title: Re: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: Big Insect on 27 September 2022, 08:46:25 PM
Many thanks, that supports my own findings.
Title: Re: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 September 2022, 07:54:04 AM
Mark check Imjin river, the Centurions used Beehive to clear Chinese infantry off the  tanks. OK it's Korea and should be BKC but....
Title: Re: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: Big Insect on 29 September 2022, 08:29:08 AM
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 September 2022, 07:54:04 AMMark check Imjin river, the Centurions used Beehive to clear Chinese infantry off the  tanks. OK it's Korea and should be BKC but....

Thanks Ian - what I really wanted to understand was whether Beehive rounds were provided to other NATO forces who bought/were supplied with US Recoilless Rifles (that were capable of shooting them).

I'll add Beehive to the CWC Korean UN list for the Centurions. Interesting that the rounds were compatible for the Centurions to use.

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 September 2022, 08:32:09 AM
I suspect we developed them for dealing with Japanese human wave attacks, hence the avaliabilty in Korea.
Title: Re: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: sultanbev on 29 September 2022, 10:05:07 AM
The 20pdr in Korea was firing canister, not Beehive, two totally different rounds.

Beehive (aka APERS) can be fired to 3000m from the 105mm M68 gun, then has a 150x 100m canister effect from point of impact. Whereas canister just erupts from the muzzle out to 300m for post-WW2 rounds.

I've not come across other nations using Beehive either.

Mark
Title: Re: US Beehive Ammo?
Post by: Big Insect on 29 September 2022, 11:22:19 AM
Thanks Mark - I suspected that was the case, but good to have it confired.
Cheers
Mark
Text only | Text with Images