Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: DecemDave on 13 September 2022, 09:03:05 AM

Title: Operation Fredericus
Post by: DecemDave on 13 September 2022, 09:03:05 AM
One for you WW2/Modern guys:

Is it my over-active imagination or did the Ukrainians just repeat with the Russians around Izyium what the Germans did to the Soviets in WW2?   

Might indicate a lack of attention to past defeats in the Russian military education system.   
Title: Re: Operation Fredericus
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 13 September 2022, 10:41:33 AM
Looks like it.
Title: Re: Operation Fredericus
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 13 September 2022, 04:06:29 PM
Wouldn't have happened with Zhukov in charge.
Title: Re: Operation Fredericus
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 September 2022, 04:52:18 PM
QuoteWouldn't have happened with Zhukov Stalin in charge.
FIFY :)
Title: Re: Operation Fredericus
Post by: DecemDave on 13 September 2022, 07:21:51 PM
???  It WAS Stalin in charge    ;D 

he ordered Timoshenko to keep attacking west enabling Army Group Kleist to completely cut off a Russian pocket around Izyium following pretty much the same routes (presumably dictated by terrain) that the Ukrainians just used.

Been reading it up since my post.  The parallels are too many to be a coincidence although the southern pincer attacking north was much more successful for the Germans and closed the pocket such that apparently only 22,000 escaped out of a 1/4 million soviets. 
Title: Re: Operation Fredericus
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 September 2022, 08:36:59 PM
Nah! It was Timoshenko who was there.  If the boss had been there all would have been different. ;)