Hi all,
As always I am curious about the thoughts of the forum.
Cam friendly units move through their own minefields unhindered?
I played a pursuit desert game where the minefields purchased by the Brits finally got in the way of them leaving the board. As the Germans were making excellent frontal and flank progress it was decided that the Brits who purchased the minefield could simply pass through it.
As such i wonder what others would do.
Thanks
As mines can't tell friend from foe and even the engineers who laid them would have only the fuzziest knowledge of where they were I'd say a minefield is a minefield is a minefield and goes bang whoever crosses it..
My understanding is that if there was time and no enemy 'interference' minefields were mapped as they were laid
This would allow limited movement by patrols and the like through known paths
Care had to be taken not to reveal these paths to the enemy
Hasty minefields or mechanically scattered mines were different
Is there not a legal requirement to map mines? Not sure if it post-dates WW2. I know Argentina was criticised for laying mines indiscriminately in the Falklands and not mapping them. It was certainly customary to mark minefields in WW2 but I doubt very much that units would advance over 'friendly' minefields as if they weren't there.
John arguably dummy minefields are much more cost effective in real life. Yes minefields are supposed to be mapped but on at least one occasion in North Africa a British attack was delayed by hitting a British minefeild which had been "lost" so it does happen.
QuoteHi all,
As always I am curious about the thoughts of the forum.
Cam friendly units move through their own minefields unhindered?
I played a pursuit desert game where the minefields purchased by the Brits finally got in the way of them leaving the board. As the Germans were making excellent frontal and flank progress it was decided that the Brits who purchased the minefield could simply pass through it.
As such i wonder what others would do.
Thanks
Hi John - the simple answer is NO. At the level we are playing the game and the time-scale of a game any troops entering an active minefield will be potentially subject to casualties.
As stated by others, even if a minefield is mapped, moving through it is not an easy option unless specific lanes are incorporated into it when it was laid, and those lanes marked and communicated. This can best be represented by laying your minefields with gaps between them. However, the problem with marked lanes, is that they are just as visible to the enemy as to friendly units. So defeats the object of the exercise.
Remember that the size of a minefield in the rules is the maximum size - so (as a thought) you could buy lots of smaller fields (interlaid with the full size ones) and lay them out with gaps between them.
I am reminded of the interaction between Tom Hanks and his CO at the start of 'Saving Private Ryan' where Tom describes how what the Rangers thought was two or three smaller minefields was actually a single big minefield, with dead-end 'canyons' or spurs built into it - designed to lure American armour into killing fields for the German AT guns.
He also talks about this minefield being a mix of different mines e.g. "those little wooden b&st&rds that our detectors cannot pick up" etc. So you could designate some of your fields as AT or AP specifically and some as both, but mix them up - and 'seed' AT mines next to a mixed field, so that Armour might go through an AP channel OK but the following infantry run into the AP only bit.
Lots of "fun" to be had with that if you fancy being creative.
Cheers
Mark
Quote from: michaelk on 17 August 2022, 12:00:37 AMAs always I am curious about the thoughts of the forum.
There are some things that are best left unexamined.
Quote from: michaelk on 17 August 2022, 12:00:37 AMCam friendly units move through their own minefields unhindered?
I agree with "no". There may be paths through the minefield which friendlies are aware of, and can traverse safely, but there should be at minimum a huge speed penalty (1/4 speed?)
I think it also depends on the scale you are playing. I play platoon level, but if you play at division level crossing a minefield becomes a more perfunctory matter.
The finest exchange in a war film
"I've found a mine"
"What kind is it?"
"The kind that goes boom and kills you! How the hell do I know what kind it is?"
Mines particularly in light soil or sand have a tendency to drift over time. in the case of sand, this can be quite a short time, even overnight if the wind gets up.
So even if you have an up-to-date map, of where they were laid, or even a marked swept path you cannot trust it completely.
QuoteThe finest exchange in a war film
"I've found a mine"
"What kind is it?"
"The kind that goes boom and kills you! How the hell do I know what kind it is?"
Can I be crass (well, yes and I'm about to be) - what film and who please?
Cos I don't know it and my Google seems to be broken. :(
And I want to pinch it and use it myself. :)
Quote from: Gwydion on 18 August 2022, 12:36:08 AMCan I be crass (well, yes and I'm about to be) - what film and who please?
Cos I don't know it and my Google seems to be broken. :(
And I want to pinch it and use it myself. :)
Think it's Crap Game in Kelly's Heros.
Is it "Mine"?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3707104/?
ref_=fn_al_tt_1 (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3707104/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Mine_2016_film.jpg)
Na, it's "Kelly's Heroes"
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/kellys-heroes-the-best-quotes-ever-we-know-this-is-going-to-make-you-smile.html?chrome=1
There is also the case that occurred in Mozambique during their war of independence against Portugal back in the 1960s.
The Portuguese colonial forces, with limited man-power and under pressure to stop independence fighters crossing the countries long northern border, laid a truly massive (very deep) minefield along the boarder.
However, it back-fired as FRELIMO (the local separatist fighters) just saw it as a massive arsenal and started to 'raid' it - not only lifting the mines to allow access through the field, but lifting a huge amount of the mines, disarming them and then using them inside Mozambique against the Portuguese forces.
They also deliberately lifted mines and re-laid them within the minefield to catch the Portuguese unawares as they inspected it.
Ultimately the Portuguese took the decision to lift a large amount of the field, for their own protection.
So, some interesting options there. However, that was an insurgency campaign played out over 10 years, and in our every-day battles such activity is unlikely to feature - unless it is as part of a specific scenario.
Thanks
Mark
It was indeed "Kelly's heroes".
Mine!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4BNbHBcnDI
Not just minefields. In Oman during the Dhofar War, the PFLO placed PMN APers mines on many Jebel tracks and TM-46 ATk mines on larger graded roads. It was very effective physically and psychologically. It made movement on foot for the Sultan's Armed Forces difficult, and dangerous, as well as for the local Jebali people. The PFLO used to mine the roads close to Salalah over-night such that they had to be swept every morning. On the jebel they were still a menace and when I went back in 1985. The war was long over but PMNs were still killing civilians and wandering animals, and some archaeologists, French as I remember, were killed when their vehicle ran over a TM-46 near Taqah. I know nothing about the use of mines by partisans during WW2 and this sort of thing might be more appropriate to CWC scenarios.