Has anyone tried the Army Painter system on 10mm figures? For those who haven't seen it advertised, it consists of an overall spray in a basic colour (there are about a dozen in all) onto which you paint the major detail. The figures are then dipped into a special varnish which acts a bit like an ink wash and settles into the incised detail, creating the impression of shading. A mate of mine has used it on 28mm figures with pleasing results - particularly on the lighter colours. And, of course, it's very much quicker than three-part shading. Downside is that it's fairly pricey (the varnish alone is over £17 a can).
I was thinking that it might be a little overpowering for small figures. Anyone actually tried it? :-\
I've seen it done but frankly I prefer prime-base-wash-base again over it. Almost as fast and a more natural color progression.
Use it although I apply the varnish by brush, less thick and dries quicker
I used my own home-brewed version, B&Q Satin Rosewood varnish, thinned with water, 3 parts varnish to 1 part water, total cost for a litre £8.
Army painter, ok its all done for you but total cost for a litre, £72, its a no-brainer really.
Oh and another bonus for the home-brew is that you can clean your brushes with water. ;)
Gordon
I'm currently looking at stocking some of the Army Painter stuff, but the pricing is putting me off somewhat.
not used it on 10mm but used it on my 28mm stuff and I love the results i feel it works best on irregular units but does speed things up a little. check out my blog for all my celts that are using the AP dip (darktone) once i have emptied this tin will look at alt to AP (I got this one as payment for a paint job, I feel they are pricey)
Not used it but i've seen some figures finished in it and for me personally i think it look poor.
I thought it made them look like cheap plastics.
It seems to round of a lot of the sharp detain on the figures.
And its WAY too pricey.
I've used wood stain, £3-4 for the same size tins, with a lot more shades to choose from. Thins down ok with white spirit to vary the effect, drys ok and looks fine after a spray with matt varnish.
Seems like the consensus is that it's not worth the money. OK, back to the Dulux roller!
the stain/Varnish. I bought the wrong kind - it was thick and opaque. What am I looking for?
This
(http://www.kirriemuirwargames.co.uk/images/varnish.jpg)
remember to thin it with some water, this Punic cavalry were done with this stuff.
Gordon
EDIT: Pic resized.
In states I use the Minwax water based furniture stain. Tried the oil based stained but went on thick and took forever to dry. And like GordonY said you can get it in any color. I get the black and mix it with an medium brown to get the right color.
Quote from: GordonY on 13 February 2011, 10:01:56 AM
This
(http://www.kirriemuirwargames.co.uk/images/varnish.jpg)
remember to thin it with some water, this Punic cavalry were done with this stuff.
Gordon
EDIT: Pic resized.
Hi Gordon, Whats the 28mm fig?
Thats a GZG figure from their Nuns wi Guns range, I have a small convent of these Sisters of the Nasty Habits, the game plan is the sight of all the exposed flesh will be distracting to my opponents.
Gordon
Like it...reminds me of this a bit:
(http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/1003/nuns-with-guns-adeptus-soroitus-warhammer-40k-nuns-guns-demotivational-poster-1269235184.jpg)
Shouldn't she be in the 'totty' thread. :-\
Quote from: Luddite on 14 February 2011, 07:11:59 PM
Shouldn't she be in the 'totty' thread. :-\
Oh go on then...if you insist ;)
Hi
I use the army painter stuff and love it, however at £18 a tin I think someone is taking the p***.
I like the idea of using the B&Q varnish but what shades will do the same as army painter.
I use the dark tone and light tone army painter (the mid tone is a waste of time) so want varnish the same shades.
Jim.
:d I use Army Painter Soft Tone varnish to protect my figures. Yes, it is expensive but:
*one tin lasts forever
*it does provide some subtle shading, which in 10mm is all you need
*it is absolutely rock hard, which is what you need for figures which are going to be handled on a regular basis
Further' I apply by brush (saves waste) and it tis not my top coat. For that I use Winsor and Newton Acrylic Matt Varnish which has never given my figures a white bloom, which I have experienced in the past with spray matt varnishes.
I will be using my Pendraken SYW figures at Phalanx (St Helens) this June.
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 14 March 2011, 08:01:52 AM
*it does provide some subtle shading, which in 10mm is all you need
*it is absolutely rock hard, which is what you need for figures which are going to be handled on a regular basis
Do you also shade the figures or is the Soft Tone enough?
I generally find the AP does the trick, although I do use two shades of flesh and some things, brown horses, carts and so on, I give a coat of Winsor and Newton brown ink to.
I use the dip method on my 10mm minis. Though I don't use Army painter, I use Minwax Polyshades Tudor Satin woodstain. Much cheaper, and I can get it from my local hardware store. It will leave the minis quite shiny, but a quick spray of dullcote takes care of that. An added bonus of the woodstain/dullcote combo is the minis have a strong protective coat.
I quite like the technique, and use it for all scales I paint now (10, 15 and 28mm). It's fast and looks good. In 15mm and 28mm I usually do highlights after the dip (but before dulcote), but I find highlights aren't really necessary with the wee 10mm chaps.
You can the results of my 10mm dipping here: http://thetrojanbunny.blogspot.com/2011/02/here-are-some-close-up-pictures-of-some.html
Sorry for reviwing an old thread :)
Just wanted to post a picture of some of my dipped SYW 10mm figs.
As ys can see from the picture the central figs are block painted. The rest are dipped (brused-on) with Army Painter Dark Tone - the darkest of the 3 shades
The 2 left and right flanking figures has then been applied some "strategic" colores for highlights and depth. Afterwards all will be dull coated.
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss268/tjantzen/SYW%2010mm/SYW_Dipped_web-1.jpg)
regards
Thomas
And here is a closeup of "Block painted" - "dipped" - "highlighted"
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss268/tjantzen/SYW%2010mm/SYW_Dipped_closeUp_web.jpg)
regards
Thomas
Does seem to work best on the lighter colours. Nice painting, though. 8)
As a user of Army Painter I would be interested to know if any one has come up with a 'dark tone' equivalent from B&Q.
Dark tone is essentially a black or very dark brown wash, similar to 'devlan mud' from Games Wrokshop.
Strong tone is a brown wash similar to 'ogryn flesh'.
Intrigued as I have a small horde of Army Painter that I bought in a panic. I was so hooked on the results I began to buy a tin at every show I went to just in case the company went belly up :D
Of course that was before my daughter came along and
a) ate up all my hobby time
b) ate up all my money
and
c) ate me all up :P
Don't know that I'd go for the dark tone but I'll give the strong tone a whirl on my non-white uniformed troops. Before the advent of AP i had used Tamiya smoke on some of my figures which was quite effective, especially on armour.
DP
Here are a couple of photos where I have experimented with both Army painter dark tone and strong tone on some white SYW austrians
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss268/tjantzen/SYW%2010mm/syw_dip_dront.jpg)
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss268/tjantzen/SYW%2010mm/RSCN6097.jpg)
These figs has just been dipped and no high lights has been applied.
Personally I prefer the left ones, which is AP Dark tone
After high ligtning, the AP Dark Tones gives the white uniforms a more "crisp" look 8)
regards
Thomas
ps sorry for the bad photos but they are old.... :-[
And here is another regiment done with AP Dark Tone
Based, dipped and highlighted ... only needs flogging and flags >:(
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss268/tjantzen/SYW%2010mm/AUS_pp_web.jpg)
regards
Thomas
They look good but I think I'm still inclined to go for soft tone.
DP
Those blaggards may indeed need flogging :), but I suspect you meant to say flocking =O
Sean
Quote from: Dour Puritan on 14 April 2011, 06:06:56 AM
They look good but I think I'm still inclined to go for soft tone.
DP
I think we're now into the realms of personal preference :)
Quote from: salagam on 14 April 2011, 02:30:04 PM
Those blaggards may indeed need flogging :), but I suspect you meant to say flocking =O
Sean
I guess both would do them good :D
Quote from: GordonY on 13 February 2011, 10:01:56 AM
This
(http://www.kirriemuirwargames.co.uk/images/varnish.jpg)
remember to thin it with some water, this Punic cavalry were done with this stuff.
Gordon
EDIT: Pic resized.
Hi
~Do you have any close up's of the figures you have used with this mix?, and have you used it on 28mm figures?
Yes I've used it on 28mm figs, closeups just show up my horrid painting but I'll try to get some piccys done this week sometime.
Has anyone had any long-term problems with the B&Q type varnishes? I was chatting to a guy a few shows back about alternatives to Army Painter, and he mentioned that his figures had become discoloured over a couple of years, turning white?
I've been usint that tin of B&Q for 3 years and no problems so far.
Ok for Fenton here is some 28mm Skaven
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GordonY/P1010149.jpg)
and a closer look at some AWI 10mm militia
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/GordonY/P1010150.jpg)
That do mate?
Gordon
The photos make it look fairly glossy. I find the problem with commercial varnishes (i.e. the big-tin DIY stuff) is that you can never be certain what finish you will get. Even the nominally "satin" finishes come up fairly glossy.
Mind you, a lot of people like them like that - it's all a matter of taste I suppose. :-bd
Yeah it does come out glossy, but nothing that a splat with the Dullcote doesnt fix.
thanks mate for the photos...off to B&Q I go
Hi
Sorry to revisit this one...I went to B&Q yesterday to get some varnish. stain to give it a go...GordonY what product did you buy? as I think I got the wrong stuff, and your pics of the pin are no longer showing
Cheers
B&Q Quick Drying Floor Varnish, Rosewood shade, about £9 for a 750ml tin. Should be the clean brushes with water type, usual B&Q green own brand tin. Hope thats clear enough to get the right stuff.
Many Thanks Gordon...wonder if I can take the stuff I bought back
B&Q are normally very good about returns - usually 30 days if you have the receipt. If you are wanting to do a swap then it should be absolutely fine.
Quote from: Leon on 19 June 2011, 11:41:29 PM
Has anyone had any long-term problems with the B&Q type varnishes? I was chatting to a guy a few shows back about alternatives to Army Painter, and he mentioned that his figures had become discoloured over a couple of years, turning white?
Common problem with using an ink/varinsh type stgain if figures are lef tout and exposed to a lot of light, i.e. in a glass fronted display case happened to a friend of mine everyday they looked scrummy, everyday the sun came up and beamed into his gaming room...cabinent..early the nextyear hald the figure was whitish half the figure was as painted...doh!
GordonY,
Sorry just joined the forum and looking for an answer.
Does the B&Q rosewood varnish equate to Mid or Dark Tone from AP?
Thanks
Bunny
Pretty much a miid tone, certainly not the dark one, I did have a tin of that and this stuff is a lot lighter and a damn sight cheaper.
Quote from: rexhurley on 11 April 2012, 03:28:30 AM
Common problem with using an ink/varinsh type stgain if figures are lef tout and exposed to a lot of light, i.e. in a glass fronted display case happened to a friend of mine everyday they looked scrummy, everyday the sun came up and beamed into his gaming room...cabinent..early the nextyear hald the figure was whitish half the figure was as painted...doh!
I found to my cost that Windsor and Newton inks weren't particularly colourfast...and changed shade quite drastically over time.
That
was a few years ago now. Don't know if that's the case nowadays.
Cheers - Phil.
Thanks for the warnings!
Interesting. I've used Windsor & Newton 'Sepia' and 'Black' inks for years, never had a problem with them at all, but they are kept in a dark cupboard until needed and all my figures are boxed too.. :-\
I think you should be OK with that Lemmey.
My 'favouritist' figures were kept in a clear plastic case on a windowsill.....and got a lot of sunshine.
From memory....some of the W&N colour washes seemed to barely change, (They did lighten a tad over time) while others really did alter..
A particular favourite chaos warrior had been given a purple wash over gold, and looked quite spiffy !
He ended up with a really vile pink colour armour.
There were a lot of other figures in the case that I'd used Rotring inks on......They didn't seem to change a jot !
Sadly Rotring don't do the range of inks that they used to...But those were what we used in the studio before the GW inks came out.
Personally I always much preferred the Rotring.
Cheers - Phil.
Thanks GordonY
Bunny dont forget to thin it with some water before using it, about 3 parts Varnish to 1 part water, otherwise its just too thick.
I'd avoid the primers. I've found they are very powdery and grainy leaving small figs looking pretty bad. Its a shame as the colour range is good and in a good size can compared to Humbrol etc. but the quality is shocking.