We're really ticking off these big projects at the moment and next to be completed is our eagerly-awaited Arab-Israeli ranges! We've got Egyptians, Israelis and Syrians online, covering a wide selection of infantry, support and artillery too.
These ranges have been designed for the 1973 Yom Kippur War but many of the codes will work for the 1967 and even 1956 conflicts too.
We've got a lot of armour for these conflicts hiding in our other ranges (mainly the Modern Vehicles and Vietnam ranges) but we'll be adding all of the relevant vehicles into the new Arab-Israeli range pages over the coming days, so you'll have everything you need in one place.
And for the Cold War Commander 2 players, we've added the Arab-Israeli army lists for you to download from the Army Lists page here: https://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,21713.0.html
Egyptians - https://www.pendraken.co.uk/egyptian-1083-c.asp
EGP1 Advancing with AK47 £2.00
EGP2 Advancing with Port Said SMG £2.00
EGP3 Advancing with RPD machine gun £2.00
EGP4 Standing, firing AK47 £2.00
EGP5 Standing, firing Port Said SMG £2.00
EGP6 Kneeling, firing AK47 £2.00
EGP7 Kneeling, firing Port Said SMG £2.00
EGP8 Prone RPD machine gunner £2.00
EGP9 82mm mortar team (3) £2.00
EGP10 SG-43 Goryunov MMG team (3) £2.00
EGP11 Sagger team (3) £2.00
EGP12 Kneeling, firing RPG-7 £2.00
EGP13 Sapper/Engineers £2.00
EGP14 Radio operator £2.00
EGP15 Officers £2.00
EGP16 Casualty markers £2.00
EGP17 Artillery crews £2.00
EGP18 37mm AA gun with crew (1) £2.95
EGP19 40mm Bofors AA gun with crew (1) £2.95
EGP20 6pdr AT gun with crew (1) £2.95
EGP21 57mm AT gun with crew (1) £2.95
EGP22 25pdr gun with crew (1) £2.95
EGP23 122mm Howitzer (M-30) with crew (1) £2.95
EGP24 122mm Howitzer (D-30) with crew (1) £2.95
EGP25 152mm Howitzer (D-20) with crew (1) £2.95
Army Pack: 2 x EGP1, 2, 4, 5. 1 x EGP6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15 £27.00
Israelis - https://www.pendraken.co.uk/israeli-1084-c.asp
IDF1 Advancing with FN FAL rifle £2.00
IDF2 Advancing with AK47 £2.00
IDF3 Advancing with FN (GPMG) (5 pairs) £2.00
IDF4 Standing, firing FN FAL rifle £2.00
IDF5 Standing, firing Uzi from waist £2.00
IDF6 Kneeling, firing FN FAL rifle £2.00
IDF7 Prone, firing FN (5 pairs) £2.00
IDF8 Prone, FN FAL on bipod £2.00
IDF9 FN GPMG in tripod team (3) £2.00
IDF10 52mm mortar with slung Uzi £2.00
IDF11 81mm mortar team with slung Uzi (3) £2.00
IDF12 .50cal HMG team (3) £2.00
IDF13 Kneeling, firing RPG-7 £2.00
IDF14 Blincidide bazooka team (3) £2.00
IDF15 Rifle grenadier £2.00
IDF16 Radio operator £2.00
IDF17 Officers £2.00
IDF18 Casualty markers £2.00
IDF19 Artillery crews £2.00
IDF20 M40 106mm recoilless rifles with crew (3) £2.00
IDF21 40mm Bofors AA gun with crew (1) £2.95
IDF22 25pdr gun with crew (1) £2.95
IDF23 122mm Howitzer (M-30) with crew (1) £2.95
Army Pack: 2 x IDF1, 2, 4, 5. 1 x IDF3, 4, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17 £27.00
Syrians - https://www.pendraken.co.uk/syrian-1085-c.asp
SRN1 Advancing with AK47 £2.00
SRN2 Advancing RPD £2.00
SRN3 Standing, firing AK47 £2.00
SRN4 Kneeling, firing AK47 £2.00
SRN5 Prone RPD machine gunner £2.00
SRN6 82mm mortar team £2.00
SRN7 120mm mortar team £2.00
SRN8 SG-43 Goryunov MMG team (3) £2.00
SRN9 Sagger team (3) £2.00
SRN10 Kneeling, firing RPG-7 £2.00
SRN11 Sapper/Engineers £2.00
SRN12 Radio operator £2.00
SRN13 Officers £2.00
SRN14 Casualty markers £2.00
SRN15 Artillery crews £2.00
SRN16 122mm Howitzer (M-30) with crew (1) £2.95
SRN17 122mm Howitzer (D-30) with crew (1) £2.95
SRN18 152mm Howitzer (D-20) with crew (1) £2.95
Army Pack: 3 x SRN1, 2, 3. 1 x SRN4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 13 £27.00
And some pics:
Egyptian, advancing with RPD
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-egp3-n-advancing-with-rpd-machine-gun-7054-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=7A173781-3BFD-4727-864A-99CBEBAC99BC)
Egyptian Sagger teams
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-egp11-n-sagger-team-3-7062-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=C41B396B-DE38-4BE2-B0B9-40AC1F9F11AC)
Egyptian 37mm AA gun with crew
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-egp18-n-37mm-aa-gun-with-crew-1-7069-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=210&v=E982C35E-C75F-4703-953F-BAD6496EDF72)
Egyptian D-30 122mm Howitzer with crew
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-egp24-n-122mm-howitzer-d-30-with-crew-1-7075-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=210&v=E6E79480-657A-4422-B1E9-193B2A35134E)
Israelis, advancing with FN FAL
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-IDF1-n-Advancing-with-FN-FAL-rifle-7050-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=1C51DD73-1B82-4411-A93F-3770D0BA02D4)
Israeli, firing Uzi
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-idf5-n-standing-firing-uzi-from-waist-7081-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=79753784-C52E-4EBC-9654-23C8D534B504)
Israeli officers
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-idf17-n-officers-7093-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=582B8627-0CEF-46C8-870B-A58D54EEFA98)
Israeli 106mm Recoilless rifles
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-idf20-n-m40-recoilless-rifles-with-crew-3-7096-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=210&v=594126AA-1D0D-4406-9DBD-8A9B76A913B3)
Syrian, firing AK-47
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-srn3-n-standing-firing-ak47-7102-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=E6782A03-CECA-4B8D-8F8B-631EC405F176)
Syrian 120mm mortar with crew
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-srn7-n-120mm-mortar-team-7106-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=4772ADFA-7F1A-4882-AAF4-AB01DC8F378F)
Syrian Goryunov MMG team
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-srn8-n-sg-43-goryunov-mmg-team-3-7107-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=44A74313-5F7E-46DD-A89D-A9327C82BF3B)
Syrian M-30 122mm Howitzer with crew
(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-srn16-n-122mm-howitzer-m-30-with-crew-1-7115-dv-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=997CAB5C-E2F5-4214-AAAA-958843A93AED)
Quote from: Leon on 19 June 2022, 09:56:49 PMIsraeli 40mm Recoilless rifles
106mm M40 recoilless rifles
The EPG21 should have the Russian 57mm ZIS2 gun from pack SVA3, picture shows a 57mm 6pdr in both EPG20 and EPG21
Leon,
Looking forward to seeing some of these...looks like a great range. Can I ask is there any plan to do the Jordanians from around 67?
Thanks
Bob
I'm looking, and looking in vain, for the double-mounted camel riders with bows. Why this omission of the most useful Arab figure?
Because they are Assyrian propaganda and almost certainly never existed? :)
I couldn't find a source for them in 1967 Egyptians, like there was no source for Panthers in the Syrian list.
QuoteLooking forward to seeing some of these...looks like a great range. Can I ask is there any plan to do the Jordanians from around 67?
Would WWII British not proxy?
(https://mapi.associatedpress.com/v1/items/9cf7c8a64513db11af9f0014c2589dfb/preview/AP060714011164.jpg?wm=api&ver=0&tag=app_id=4,user_id=349344,org_id=63032) (https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2021/08/AP6705310198.jpg)
Vehicles from von Pivka's "Armies of the Middle East" are M47/48/60, Centurions, Ferret, M113, Saracens.
Excellent range. I appreciate being able to select LMGs standing and riflemen not firing or kneeling.
One thing, Leon.
These ranges are under the "Post War" section of the website - the associated vehicles are in the "Modern" section.
I most humbly suggest they be in the same place?
I suspect that like Shermans in the WWII range stuff will appear in both....
Leon
Any reason there seem to be two packs of RPD LMG in the Syrian army pack and none in the Egyptian army pack?
Edward
Edward I have an Egyptian pack of RPD on top of the plans cabinate behind me....
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 20 June 2022, 07:44:14 AMEdward I have an Egyptian pack of RPD on top of the plans cabinate behind me....
I know they exist, it was just the composition of the Army Pack that confused me!
Edward
QuoteThe EPG21 should have the Russian 57mm ZIS2 gun from pack SVA3, picture shows a 57mm 6pdr in both EPG20 and EPG21
I'll need to check on that then. They're both 6pdr/57mm guns but one is the US version (M1?) without the muzzle brake on it. I'd pulled all of the guns from our Korean War artillery pile so I might have pulled across the wrong 57mm AT by mistake.
QuoteLooking forward to seeing some of these...looks like a great range. Can I ask is there any plan to do the Jordanians from around 67?
No plans at the moment, we did talk about it at the design stage but we thought that other ranges would proxy in for them.
QuoteThese ranges are under the "Post War" section of the website - the associated vehicles are in the "Modern" section.
I most humbly suggest they be in the same place?
All in the same place now, the relevant vehicles should appear below the ranges for all 3 nations. Adding items to a different website category can be done on the new site but it's a bit of a chew, so we left it to do this morning.
QuoteAny reason there seem to be two packs of RPD LMG in the Syrian army pack and none in the Egyptian army pack?
No real reason, more the smaller range of Syrians than anything else. We try to keep the packs quite standardised so for these post-WWII ranges it's a pack of MGs, mortars, officers, RPG's and then infantry to make up the rest. For the Egyptians I thought folks would want some Saggers in there so the RPD's got bumped. I can easily knock out one of the kneeling/firing packs to include some LMG's if you like?
The Egyptian 6pdr was the British one,
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1956/nov/21/egypt-captured-equipment
and by all appearances the Israeli one has the muzzle break. (wiki)
Interesting that the Egyptian 3.7" AA guns had AP ammo....
Quote from: sultanbev on 20 June 2022, 01:38:16 PMThe Egyptian 6pdr was the British one,
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1956/nov/21/egypt-captured-equipment
and by all appearances the Israeli one has the muzzle break. (wiki)
Interesting that the Egyptian 3.7" AA guns had AP ammo....
I'll get that swapped over then, we've recently remoulded the Soviet 45mm and 57mm guns so they'll be to hand.
Have found that the IDF used both the Mk.II 57mmL43 6pdr and Mk.IV 57mmL50 6pdr, including ex-Dutch ones, so British models would be fine for the 6pdr. It is clear that the Egyptians used both 6pdr and Russian 57mm ZIS2 even in the same areas.
https://www.academia.edu/39505313/SUEZ_1956_NOTES_ON_PLANS_ORDERS_OF_BATTLE_AND_EQUIPMENT
Quote from: Leon on 20 June 2022, 12:35:21 PMAll in the same place now, the relevant vehicles should appear below the ranges for all 3 nations. Adding items to a different website category can be done on the new site but it's a bit of a chew, so we left it to do this morning.
Knew you'd be on top of it. Amazing the variety of vehicles that are relevant.
Quote from: sultanbev on 20 June 2022, 02:45:14 PMHave found that the IDF used both the Mk.II 57mmL43 6pdr and Mk.IV 57mmL50 6pdr, including ex-Dutch ones, so British models would be fine for the 6pdr. It is clear that the Egyptians used both 6pdr and Russian 57mm ZIS2 even in the same areas.
No worries, I've got the guns here so I'll get those swapped over this week.
Quote from: fsn on 20 June 2022, 03:31:32 PMKnew you'd be on top of it. Amazing the variety of vehicles that are relevant.
There were quite a few!
An excellent range there and so, so tempting, given the wide range of vehicles and AFV's that can be fielded 8) .
Indeed. I'm "low tech" and "high tech" variants.
Israeli's with M51's and M3's then Centurions and M113's; Egyptians with T34/85s and BTR somethings then T54/55/62(?) and BMP1.
Gives me 4 alternatives scenarios.
T54/55 Hi Tech ????
You've missed your ultimate match up.
Jordanian Cents vs Israeli Cents (fictional but hell)
The Israelis deliberately used M48's and Shermans against the Jordainians to avoid blue on blue, but no doubt Nobby will be doing that.
Does anyone know if the PK/PKM [general purpose] machine guns were used in any number by either Egyptian or Syrian forces in 1973? I've read conflicting references but found nothing definite.
I suppose if i have a need for the PK(M) in light mode I could wait for the Cold War Soviets who definitely should have them and do a conversion.
Edward
Short answer Edward is no. I checked this out for Leon when he was designing the range.
RD Jones in Janes Infantry Weapons(Egypt) omits any mention of PK.
I think it was Laffin in Osprey suggests that this may have been because the SG43 was built under licence in Egypt and popular because it was soldier proof,as well as that national pride factor.
Sources suggest the Syrians adopted the PK after the 73 war, as part of Soviet sponsored rearmament.
Quote from: Sunray on 24 June 2022, 08:02:50 PMShort answer Edward is no. I checked this out for Leon when he was designing the range.
RD Jones in Janes Infantry Weapons(Egypt) omits any mention of PK.
I think it was Laffin in Osprey suggests that this may have been because the SG43 was built under licence in Egypt and popular because it was soldier proof,as well as that national pride factor.
Sources suggest the Syrians adopted the PK after the 73 war, as part of Soviet sponsored rearmament.
Many thanks - really useful.
Edward
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 21 June 2022, 07:59:58 AMThe Israelis deliberately used M48's and Shermans against the Jordainians to avoid blue on blue, but no doubt Nobby will be doing that.
Erm, didn't the Jordanians have M48s
QuoteErm, didn't the Jordanians have M48s
Exactly!
"It's an M48!"
"Oh, that's one of ours then"
compared to
"Centurion ahead."
"Ours or theirs?"
"Ummm . . ."
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 21 June 2022, 07:12:49 AMYou've missed your ultimate match up.
Jordanian Cents vs Israeli Cents (fictional but hell)
That would be fratricide! Not gonna happen on my table.
Quote from: fsn on 25 June 2022, 07:37:03 AMThat would be fratricide! Not gonna happen on my table.
;D ;D ;D - +1
needed a laugh- Thanks Nobby!
Quote from: Raider4 on 25 June 2022, 06:54:59 AMExactly!
"It's an M48!"
"Oh, that's one of ours then"
compared to
"Centurion ahead."
"Ours or theirs?"
"Ummm . . ."
I can't imagine how many friendly fire incidents form part of the Ukraine-Russia conflict
QuoteErm, didn't the Jordanians have M48s
Sorry, I completely mis-read that as "the Jordanians didn't have M48s".
A quick read of Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M48_Patton#Middle_East) suggests the Israeli M48s were used against the Egyptians, their Centurions took on the Jordanian M48s during the Six Day War.
Just took a look at the new online catalouge. Far as I'm aware the Egyptians didn't have any ex-German WWII kit and the Sherman with FL-10 turret was an Egyptian (very rare - all 10 of em) conversion. The German stuff came from scrap dumps in France when the Frenach sold the Israiles AMX-13's they supplied it as a balance to the Syrians. Open to correction here but it was manily Pnz IV and Stug IIIG. There are persistant rumours Panthers may also have been supplied, but there is absolutly no evidence of this.
I think that the Pzkw IV, StuG and Jagdpanzer IV would all be Syrian and their last outing was in 1967.
Edward
Quote from: Sunray on 25 June 2022, 08:36:28 AM;D ;D ;D - +1
needed a laugh- Thanks Nobby!
Quote from: Raider4 on 25 June 2022, 06:54:59 AMExactly!
"It's an M48!"
"Oh, that's one of ours then"
compared to
"Centurion ahead."
"Ours or theirs?"
"Ummm . . ."
Quote from: Raider4 on 25 June 2022, 06:54:59 AMExactly!
"It's an M48!"
"Oh, that's one of ours then"
compared to
"Centurion ahead."
"Ours or theirs?"
"Ummm . . ."
I remember playing a board game at school (October War by SPI, I think) where my opponent fired on and knocked out one of his own IDF Centurions ....
Edward
Quote from: kustenjaeger on 26 June 2022, 07:12:15 AMI think that the Pzkw IV, StuG and Jagdpanzer IV would all be Syrian and their last outing was in 1967.
Edward
The authority on this are the good ole boys at the Latrun Tank Museum. Israeli intelligence kept a close eye on Syrian aquisitions of AVFs in the 1950s/60s - and still do. Data released to the archives indicates the French were first to supply Pz IVs - about 40. Then in 1955, some 45 purchased from the Czechs at £5,400 eachand 12 StuG at £3,200 each. Spain also supplied Pz4
(17). By 1967 25 Pz IVs were runners. Others were dug in hull down as bunkers. I am informed this is "kosher".The Syrians were unfortunate on 2 fronts. First,the Shermans were upgunned with the new French 75mm CN 75-50 firing an AP at 3,200 feet per second. Secondly the IDF had appointed Tal to command the tank force. They soon knew who their boss was. To this day the tankers are the most disciplined of the "slack" citizen's army. Accurate gunnery was Tal's goal. In the 1965 tank duel for "the waters" of the upper Jordan, the new up gunned Shermans - some with modified 105- and Tal manning one of the guns, decimated the Syrian PzIVs and even destroyed earth moving equiptment at extreme range. A success that was repeated in the Six-Day Way.
Syrian Jagpanzer IvS were reported to be in storage in Damascus until the 1990s.
You seem to have added T64's fraid those are Soviet Union only, T-72's are the exported ones !
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 21 July 2022, 09:10:42 AMYou seem to have added T64's fraid those are Soviet Union only, T-72's are the exported ones !
Fixed.
What am I getting for all this proof reading ? :P :P
A warm glow of inner satisfaction? :D
QuoteWhat am I getting for all this proof reading ? :P :P
This and a bit of kudos?
Quote from: Gwydion on 21 July 2022, 03:18:03 PMA warm glow of inner satisfaction? :D
Received my first Arab-Israeli figures this morning. I just went for a pack of IDF with FN FAL and a pack of Syrians with AK as a test. Very nice and fit well with the new BMP- (see separate new releases thread).
I purchased an M3 halftrack as well and - probably because it is from an old range it is not comparable in scale to the BMP - while the BMP is roughly 1:153 the halftrack - at least in length - is more like 1:170 so looks really small. I know there was some discussion about Israeli specialist halftracks being added but I don't know if these are built on the existing castings?
Edward
Quote from: kustenjaeger on 29 July 2022, 09:10:46 AMI know there was some discussion about Israeli specialist halftracks being added but I don't know if these are built on the existing castings?
The new M3s are all fresh designs, done digitally, so they'll match in with the BMP-1 sizing.
Just to be pedantic (how suprising) most Isralie 1/2 Tracks were M5/M9 they came from our reserve stocks in the early 60's.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 July 2022, 01:19:35 PMJust to be pedantic (how suprising) most Isralie 1/2 Tracks were M5/M9 they came from our reserve stocks in the early 60's.
True, but didn't the Israelis retain the M3 designation for them?
This is what's coming in the M3/5 revamp:
British WWIIM5 halftrack
US WWIIM3A1 Halftrack
M3 75mm GMC
M15 MGMC
M16 MGMC
US Post-WarM21 MMC
IsraeliM3 APC
M3 with 20mm cannon
M3 TCM-20
M3C (Degem Gimel) 81mm mortar
M3D (Degem Dalet) 120mm mortar
Yes and all the Cents were Cent 5 until upgraded to S'hot
Quote from: Leon on 29 July 2022, 02:06:10 PMTrue, but didn't the Israelis retain the M3 designation for them?
This is what's coming in the M3/5 revamp:
British WWII
M5 halftrack
US WWII
M3A1 Halftrack
M3 75mm GMC
M15 MGMC
M16 MGMC
US Post-War
M21 MMC
Israeli
M3 APC
M3 with 20mm cannon
M3 TCM-20
M3C (Degem Gimel) 81mm mortar
M3D (Degem Dalet) 120mm mortar
Looks great, Leon. Any idea on timing?
I can see an IDF and Egyptian army pack order in my future.
Edward
Edward
Quote from: kustenjaeger on 29 July 2022, 03:20:41 PMLooks great, Leon. Any idea on timing?
I can see an IDF and Egyptian army pack order in my future.
Not long, they've all been printed and are going into master moulds on Tuesday. We're away at Claymore next weekend and then taking a couple of days off so we're probably looking at about 3 weeks?
Leon
That's faster than I'd expected! 😃
Are there plans for more M48s? Obviously you've got M50/M51 and Sho't Kal/Sho't Meteor and M60 but I seem to remember a post about the old M48 needing to be redone (and if it's an original 90mm M48A3 that would work for 1967 but not for the 105mm Magach 3 that's (I think) very close to an M48A5.
Edward
Quote from: kustenjaeger on 29 July 2022, 03:38:47 PMAre there plans for more M48s? Obviously you've got M50/M51 and Sho't Kal/Sho't Meteor and M60 but I seem to remember a post about the old M48 needing to be redone (and if it's an original 90mm M48A3 that would work for 1967 but not for the 105mm Magach 3 that's (I think) very close to an M48A5.
No plans at the moment, so just the existing M48A3 for now.
Quote from: kustenjaeger on 29 July 2022, 03:38:47 PMLeon
That's faster than I'd expected! 😃
Are there plans for more M48s? Obviously you've got M50/M51 and Sho't Kal/Sho't Meteor and M60 but I seem to remember a post about the old M48 needing to be redone (and if it's an original 90mm M48A3 that would work for 1967 but not for the 105mm Magach 3 that's (I think) very close to an M48A5.
Edward
Thats not too surprising - the 48A5 is modeled on the Isralie upgrades.