Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: collegialhoagie on 07 April 2022, 07:26:41 AM

Title: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: collegialhoagie on 07 April 2022, 07:26:41 AM
Suppose that one were to underestimate the bonding strength of wood glue between tiny metal models and icecream sticks, and was pretty loosey-goosey with the amount of applied glue; what would be the best and least forceful way to debond the models from the stick?
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: mmcv on 07 April 2022, 07:41:12 AM
Soaking the sticks in water might help loosen a bit, though i'd probably just take a craft knife and dig the tip in under a bit and prise them up. Could use sprue clippers too if you're liable to lose a thumb with the knife, though they're more likely to score the base.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: pierre the shy on 07 April 2022, 08:20:11 AM
Yep, if its PVA/Elmers/White Wood glue try soaking the sticks and glued area in a bit of warm water overnight and the figures should then come away freely, or purhaps with a little gentle pursuasion with a craft knife as MMCV suggests.

Done that several times when I've rebased older 6mm stuff and works a treat.

 
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 07 April 2022, 08:22:44 AM
I'd just use the craft knife - but carefully.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: collegialhoagie on 07 April 2022, 08:29:45 AM
Just prying them off with the craft knife really was my plan A, but this is when I realised that they had really bonded together too well, and I'll either break the minis and/or loose a finger. I will try soaking the sticks and see how it goes!
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 07 April 2022, 09:24:47 AM
Substitute a broad chisel for the craft knife.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: FierceKitty on 07 April 2022, 09:40:04 AM
Soaking them overnight in warm water presents its own problems, of course. Water cools off after a while.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: John Cook on 07 April 2022, 10:04:28 AM
I've always used white PVA wood glue to mount my figures on wooden lolly sticks for painting.  They always pop off easily when a craft knife is inserted between stick and base.  You may be using too much glue - you only need a blob the size of a pin head.  Make sure the underside of the figures' bases are filed flat and clean in the first place and you should have no problem.   Wood glue will soften if damp unless it is a type intended for exterior use. 
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: collegialhoagie on 07 April 2022, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: John Cook on 07 April 2022, 10:04:28 AMI've always used white PVA wood glue to mount my figures on wooden lolly sticks for painting.  They always pop off easily when a craft knife is inserted between stick and base.  You may be using too much glue - you only need a blob the size of a pin head.  Make sure the underside of the figures' bases are filed flat and clean in the first place and you should have no problem.   Wood glue will soften if damp unless it is a type intended for exterior use. 

Yeah I was quite liberal with the amount of glue, as I was of the impression that it wouldn't bond much at all to metal, I've tried it out before with 15mm metal figs on plastic sprue, which didnt work at all. In hindsight is of course the difference between metal+plastic and metal+wood that I should have reacted on.  #-o
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: kipt on 07 April 2022, 11:48:28 AM
Rather than wood sticks I have thick card stock that I glue to using Elmer's glue (PVA).  Then just tear them off and discard the card stock.  A little cleanup on the bottom.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: Ithoriel on 07 April 2022, 12:11:22 PM
A slight tangent, if I may.

Instead of PVA or similar try Copydex. Good solid bond, if left to dry properly, with a relatively modest spread of glue and it peels off even months later. Peel the figures off the sticks, rub the Copydex off the sticks and ta-la! sticks are like new ... well apart from the paint I accidentally slop on them.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: collegialhoagie on 07 April 2022, 01:28:03 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 07 April 2022, 12:11:22 PMA slight tangent, if I may.

Instead of PVA or similar try Copydex. Good solid bond, if left to dry properly, with a relatively modest spread of glue and it peels off even months later. Peel the figures off the sticks, rub the Copydex off the sticks and ta-la! sticks are like new ... well apart from the paint I accidentally slop on them.

Sounds very useful, but I don't think we have that in Sweden...
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: Ithoriel on 07 April 2022, 02:46:48 PM
Copydex is cow gum, a petroleum based  adhesive. No cows involved, as far as I know, so no idea why it's called "cow" gum.

Amazon's Swedish site carries it.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: fsn on 07 April 2022, 03:11:43 PM
It was invented by Mr Cow.

https://hullabaloo.co.uk/blog/whatever-happened-cow-gum/ (https://hullabaloo.co.uk/blog/whatever-happened-cow-gum/)

Copydex is available in the UK Amazon as well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Copydex-Bottle-Adhesive-125-ml/dp/B0001OZIFW/ref=sr_1_3?
crid=129G5LDTZYH5Q&keywords=copydex&qid=1649344381&sprefix=copydex%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Copydex-Bottle-Adhesive-125-ml/dp/B0001OZIFW/ref=sr_1_3?crid=129G5LDTZYH5Q&keywords=copydex&qid=1649344381&sprefix=copydex%2Caps%2C113&sr=8-3)

I started using it after a recommendation from this forum, possibly from Ithoriel. Thank you to whoever it was, perfect for the painting stick. 
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: mmcv on 07 April 2022, 03:30:03 PM
I am tempted to try it, I tend to just use blu/white tac but can end up peeling a bit of paint away from the base when removing at times.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: jimduncanuk on 07 April 2022, 03:44:01 PM
Quote from: mmcv on 07 April 2022, 03:30:03 PMI am tempted to try it, I tend to just use blu/white tac but can end up peeling a bit of paint away from the base when removing at times.

I use Blu-Tac all the time and yes, it will obscure some parts of the base when painted.

I finish the figure and also the base as far as possible. I then remove the figure from the Blu-Tac and touch up the parts of the base that were missed before basing the figure.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: mmcv on 07 April 2022, 03:48:30 PM

QuoteI use Blu-Tac all the time and yes, it will obscure some parts of the base when painted.

I finish the figure and also the base as far as possible. I then remove the figure from the Blu-Tac and touch up the parts of the base that were missed before basing the figure.

Yeah I'm much the same, it's usually not a big deal as the bases get touched up with a mix of paint and pva for the basing material anyway, but do get the odd time where I missed a spot and some bare metal shows through. It's only a tiny speck, but always catches the eye!

My main dislike of using glue for the sticks is having to wait for them to dry before painting. I tend to prep a few sticks then prime them and leave that to dry. Adding an extra drying step between those means I'd have to do bigger batches which can get a bit tiresome.
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: fred. on 07 April 2022, 04:29:18 PM
I use double sided sticky tape for figures on painting sticks

Works great. No waiting to dry, no issue removing the figures. The hardest bit is peeling the backing off - and that's not really hard. 

Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: fsn on 07 April 2022, 05:16:06 PM
I find double sided tape mildly annoying.  :-\

I solve the glue problem by having several batches on the go at once. Usually 1 in paint, 1 in primer and 1 in "prep".

Means I know what I'm painting next, 'cos it's all perfectly planned.  :^o

Works for me!
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: paulr on 07 April 2022, 07:29:04 PM
I also use double sided sticky tape, hasn't annoyed me yet ;)
Title: Re: wood glue debonding tips?
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 08 April 2022, 06:46:51 AM
Use blutac for 6mm vehicles (the infantry I glue direct to a base) For all else uhu, no problem getting them off. Occasionally clean the residue of either off.