Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => Previous Years' Releases => New Releases! => 2022 Releases => Topic started by: Leon on 20 January 2022, 11:52:07 AM

Title: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Leon on 20 January 2022, 11:52:07 AM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51819770938_cc84839243_c.jpg)

We're at Day 7 of our 10 days worth of releases and it's just a small one today, with the WWII Italians getting a 65mm mountain gun.  We're going to do some work on the Italian artillery options later this year as well, so keep an eye out for those.


WWII
Italian - https://www.pendraken.co.uk/italian-738-c.asp
ITA29   Mle 1906 65mm mountain gun with crew (2)   £2.95


(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-ita29-n-mle-1906-65mm-mountain-gun-with-crew-2--6898-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=BF05AF24-42BE-4E7C-9D1D-2DFA864F81CB)

Tomorrow will be a useful little release for the Marlburians...
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: fred. on 20 January 2022, 12:10:33 PM
That's very dinky!

I'm taking it by the shorts it was used in North Africa, not just up mountains?
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: fsn on 20 January 2022, 01:04:16 PM
That is dinky.

Good job I've finished my WWII Italians.  :^o 
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Steve J on 20 January 2022, 01:55:53 PM
It was used in North Africa too Fred and was apparently popular due to its very low profile.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: fred. on 20 January 2022, 05:33:14 PM
Cheers Steve. I'm not even pretending I've finished my Italians so they can definitely have a couple of these to give them a bit of HE support. 
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: paulr on 20 January 2022, 07:03:46 PM
 :-bd  =D>  :-bd

 #:-S
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Orcs on 20 January 2022, 11:33:50 PM
QuoteWWII
Italian - https://www.pendraken.co.uk/italian-738-c.asp
ITA29    Mle 1906 65mm mountain gun with crew (2)    £2.95


(https://39.cdn.ekm.net/ekmps/shops/89204c/images/-n-ita29-n-mle-1906-65mm-mountain-gun-with-crew-2--6898-p.jpg?w=360&h=234&v=BF05AF24-42BE-4E7C-9D1D-2DFA864F81CB)


Nice little model

Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Orcs on 20 January 2022, 11:36:05 PM
QuoteTomorrow will be a useful little release for the Marlburians...

Oh dear that might be expensive
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Leon on 21 January 2022, 08:17:45 AM
Quote from: Orcs on 20 January 2022, 11:36:05 PMOh dear that might be expensive

Only if you've got high attrition rates in your games...
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: OldenBUA on 21 January 2022, 11:02:30 AM
From my WW2 Fact file, it would seem you can also use it as the 6.5 cm GebK 246(i) in a German army. But only in small numbers, and those units will probably think 'Why us?!'.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 21 January 2022, 11:52:06 AM
It was issued instead of the 47mm ATG in some divisions.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: nigel drury on 23 January 2022, 01:14:15 PM
Could this also be used for Spanish Civil War?  The CTV seem to have had a mix of helmet types.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: fsn on 23 January 2022, 01:21:39 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-2006-1204-500%2C_Spanien%2C_Schlacht_um_Guadalajara.jpg)

Captioned "Nationalist forces at the Battle of Guadalajara", so I'm gonna say "yes".
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: nigel drury on 23 January 2022, 04:43:07 PM
Thank you.  The gun is certainly OK for SCW, I just wanted to check if there was anything about the crew that would look wrong.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 23 January 2022, 04:47:41 PM
Quote from: OldenBUA on 21 January 2022, 11:02:30 AMFrom my WW2 Fact file, it would seem you can also use it as the 6.5 cm GebK 246(i) in a German army. But only in small numbers, and those units will probably think 'Why us?!'.

 ;D
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: GrumpyOldMan on 23 January 2022, 08:56:59 PM
QuoteThank you.  The gun is certainly OK for SCW, I just wanted to check if there was anything about the crew that would look wrong.

Hello ND

If you were worried about the look, you could use some of the Italian CTV https://www.pendraken.co.uk/italian-ctv-690-c.asp (https://www.pendraken.co.uk/italian-ctv-690-c.asp) ie the mortar crewman, MMG second, officer, nco etc. I'm sure Leon would see his way clear to providing alternate crews. :)

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: nigel drury on 24 January 2022, 09:10:39 AM
Thank you.  I've seen illustrations of the CTV in Adrian and in later helmets, wasn't sure how common the latter were.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: John Cook on 24 January 2022, 01:28:33 PM
Quote from: nigel drury on 23 January 2022, 04:43:07 PMThank you.  The gun is certainly OK for SCW, I just wanted to check if there was anything about the crew that would look wrong.

Nigel, the troops in the photo are Blackshirt militia (MVSN), which comprised the vast majority of CTV at Guadalajara, manning a 65/17 Modello 13.  The MVSN at this period wore the Mod 1915 helmet, the Mod 1933 helmet being used by Royal Italian Army (REI) units.  Each Grupo of three Banderas had a battery of these pieces.  The French crews FRE6 and FRE7 would work for MSVN.  There seems to be a bit of a mix-up with nomenclature because the Mle 1906 65mm gun was actually a similar French weapon. 
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: nigel drury on 24 January 2022, 09:32:53 PM
Thank you John, that's very helpful.  I've just started SCW in 10mm hence the questions I've posted elsewhere.  For the REI units in Spain were there any practical differences in uniform from that in the WW2 range?
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: John Cook on 25 January 2022, 03:39:49 AM
Hi Nigel,  No, not really, other than the colour which was a greyish olive hue, or dark sand in warmer months.  This site is quite useful though the shades are a bit on the light side: 

http://miniaturasmilitaresalfonscanovas.blogspot.com/2011/05/boletim-n-25-de-la-agupacion-de.html

If you can find a copy of Il Corpo Truppe Voluntarie Italiano Durante La Guerra Civile Spagnola 1936-1939 by Ernestino Chiappa it is about as comprehensive as it gets.

Here you can download a copy of JM Bueno's Uniformes Militares de La Guerra Civil Espanol en Color which covers the uniforms of both sides as a whole including the CTV.  It has been out of print for years and second hand copies are expensive:

https://www.scribd.com/document/200524042/Uniformes-Militares-De-La-Guerra-Civil-Espanol
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: nigel drury on 25 January 2022, 09:18:31 AM
Thank you.  Your comments on equipment in the Proxy Figures/Models section https://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,20186.15.html (https://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,20186.15.html) was also very useful.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Sunray on 25 January 2022, 04:03:48 PM
Suggest we correct the confusion and confirm that ITA 29 depicts the 65/17 Modello 17, not the very similar French Mle 1906 gun.

Trade Descriptions Act and all that.... :)
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: fred. on 25 January 2022, 07:28:57 PM
There is also SCW110 Italian 65mm mountain gun - is this the same gun (but without crew)?

https://www.pendraken.co.uk/nscw110-nitalian-65mm-mountain-gun-2-3325-p.asp
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Leon on 25 January 2022, 08:14:04 PM
Yep, that's the same one for SCW use, folks just need to add crew.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: Tolstoyevsky on 02 February 2022, 02:49:45 PM
I recall hearing that the 65mm gun was used in Spain and still in use in North Africa for regimental or battalion support fire. But it wasn't of much use, until the Italian army discovered it could fire something...a hollow-charge or HEAT round...and they could use it as an ATG. As it was in North Africa, those were placed aboard trucks to make them mobile. Whether they would dismount them when they reached a defensible position is a question.
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: John Cook on 03 February 2022, 08:53:12 AM
Quote from: Tolstoyevsky on 02 February 2022, 02:49:45 PMI recall hearing that the 65mm gun was used in Spain and still in use in North Africa for regimental or battalion support fire. 

Yes, it certainly was used in Spain by the National Army and by the Italian Corpo Truppe Volontarie.  Each National Army Brigade at Jarama in 1937, for example, had a battery of 65/17 from the Grupo de Artilleria de Accompaniamento and each Grupo de Banderas, essentially a brigade, in the CTV at Guadalajara had a battery of 65/17 too.  They were supposed to be for infantry support but they were an effective anti-tank weapon against the Popular Army's lightly armoured T26 tanks.     
Title: Re: WWII Italian mountain gun released!
Post by: sultanbev on 03 February 2022, 07:15:40 PM
The Italin 65/17 mountain gun did have an AP round, but in 1939-40 there was only 6% of shells being AP, about 12 per gun. They were portees on Fiat 634 lorries in some divisions in North Africa.
The EP HEAT round came into service in spring 1942 in North Africa.