Right- I have a Boxing Day project loosely based on the Abyssianian Crisis of 1935.Good Flames of war resources. The Vickers medium Mk11 will get an outing.
Has anyone sorted Move/AT/AP/CA/hits/save on this AFV?
From the old BKC site, the following is shown under the AVBCW army list as a Mark II tank:
Move 30 AT- AP 1/40 CA 2 Hits 2 Save 6+
Probably worth double checking the above.
'Move 30'?
Blimey. In BkC I (the only version I have to hand. Version II is around s o m e w h e r e . . . but you know how it is) both the Matildas are Move 10, and the Vickers falls somewhere between the two in performance, I believe.
Can't remember how AT/AP works in BkC II onwards, but the 3 pounder only has solid shot, no HE.
Thanks for this. Did a wee bit of research
Speed- the V8 Armstrong Siddeley gave a speed of 12-15 mph - that's about the same as a Churchill = a move of 15 max
The armour is only 8mm, The design was for small arms and shell fragments - not AT weapons despite Anti Tank rifles being around since 1918. A Daimler Armoured car had 7mm to 16mm = 2/3/6 ??
The gun on the Mkii is the L40 3pdr- AT2/40at & AP 2/60 reflecting 2,000 yard range and M/V 2,575ft/sec ??
Comments welcome
I too thought the move value was off and was not sure about the HE/AP. something quite easy to play around with and come up with your own values.
Quote from: Sunray on 16 November 2021, 06:55:09 PMSpeed- the V8 Armstrong Siddeley gave a speed of 12-15 mph - that's about the same as a Churchill = a move of 15 max
The gun on the Mkii is the L40 3pdr- AT2/40at & AP 2/60 reflecting 2,000 yard range and M/V 2,575ft/sec ??
It had an unofficial top speed of 30mph on road, but cross country speed was only 10mph.
The 47mmL40 3pdr has low mv of 1840ft/sec, penetrating 32mm/90*/250m and 25mm/90*/1000m, so actually worse than the Italian 47/32. It was because it was designed with low weight in mind rather than performance.
Having looked at other stats, I would give it:
Vickers Medium Mk.II MV = 20; A/P = 1/40; A/T = 2/50; CA = 3; H = 3 Save = 6
reasoning:
the shorter 47mmL23 on the Vickers 6Tonner E has A/T 1/50, and it was better than that.
all AFVs in BKCIV have a minumum of 3 hits at 6 to save.
It has lots of MGs, so CA = 3
It is faster than A10, slower than A9, so split the difference gives speed 17.5, so take your pic either 20 or 15. I'd pick 20 because it could go faster unofficially than stated speed.
I think the earlier posts about speed etc might have been getting the Vickers Medium Mk II and the Vickers Light Mk II mixed up.
I think the AVBCW list (from Nik Harwood?) is talking about the Light MkII - the speed is about right and it has no AT because it only has a .50 mg. whereas the Medium MkII has the 47mm/3pdr.
For BKC stats 20 seems overly generous from what I've read and I'd go with the 15
Many thanks for this input. Rules do need to reflect reality :) I believe the L40 3pdr started off as a WW1 Naval gun ?
Looking at the tank I was struck by the boxlike shape and thin armour. Take away the turret and it could almost pass for an APC!
Come Boxing Day I will report how it performed. Given its height, I can see a scope for hull down actions, yet the doctrine of the day (1930s) was obsessed with firing on the move.
"I believe the L40 3pdr started off as a WW1 Naval gun ?
In this case it appears not. The Vickers Medium Mk.I had a 47mmL32 gun 3pdr 2cwt gun QF Mk.1, firing a unique length cartridge different from the 47mm naval guns of the 19th and early 20th centuries. it was called a 2cwt gun as the primary design criteria was for low weight. The Vickers medium Mk.2 was equipped with a Mark 2 version of the gun, with increased barrel length (47mmL40) and increased muzzle velocity.
There were a small number of 'mix-ups' around transferring the list stats (especially for Early British armour) across to BCKVI via BKCIII. This is probably one of them.
It's an easy fix in the online PDF version of the rules.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Mark
No worries Mark.
Indebted to Sultanbev for info in the 3pdr gun.
With regard to speed, I found a lecturette by Dave Fletcher MBE (Bovington) who identified the primitive "coil in tube" suspension as a limit to sustained speed bearing in mind the tracks were also very crude, and the 90 hp engine would have struggled, so will retain the move of 15.
The Vickers Medium was in service from 1925-38 - so a very important inter war tank, and great to get the data to play it.
Thanks everyone.
:)
Quote from: Sunray on 17 November 2021, 12:55:03 PMThe Vickers Medium was in service from 1925-38 - so a very important inter war tank, and great to get the data to play it.
Not quite - a tad later. Some were dug in as pill boxes in 41 at Mersah Matrue in 41. Most likley these were training vehicles.
Quite right Ian. It was indeed this last ditch action that inspired me to use them in my 1936 era (fictional) project.
What's your take on the emerging consensus on the BKC score for this tank?
Looks about right so far, might give it a 5 save, speed and attack dice look right.
Thanks Ian. When the model arrives from Leon, I will pitch it against a few 1920/30s era contemporary tanks like the Renault Ft17.
The AT rifle was around since WW1 and field guns were used over open sights against tanks, so 8mm armour was the weak point.
Still, it is a tank of its time. Sometimes we gamers are too present minded with what we now know.
Considering the Vickers Medium was a 1923 design, still in service in 1941 (albeit briefly), shows it couldn't have been that bad. There's many more AFVs that had much less shelf life.
Indeed. The main players had been exhausted by WW1. Europe was at peace at one level, but festering discontent beneath the surface. No defence budgets had time for armour. GB had only a few colonial police actions, and the forward thinkers like BH Liddell Hart and Percy Hobart were "voices in the wilderness".
It took a war to stimulate tank design and evolution.
OP, did you ever play using the tanks?