Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => 20th Century => Topic started by: Heedless Horseman on 07 November 2021, 07:52:04 AM

Title: Western Desert PzIII Armament question
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 07 November 2021, 07:52:04 AM
Were there any 37mm armed PzIIIs with DAK in the Western Desert?
On another forum, The 'New Millennium' 1/144 PzIII model (Desert camo) came op. It appears to be an early mark... initially with 37mm... although I believe some were up-gunned to short 50mm... think they would have the later mantlet?

Basically, I am sure that I have read from reliable sources, that NO 37mm armed PzIII were shipped to N Africa... but cannot find source. Some up-gunned vehicles, maybe?
This discussion as close as I can get:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=141582


Tanks Encyclopedia says 37mm were there but 'unclear'.
Wiki says 'small numbers'... but this may be going on Ausf designation, rather than actual gun.

Arty Obs or Command ,  with dummy gun may be possible?

Any clues, chaps?
Title: Re: Western Desert PzIII Armament question
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 07 November 2021, 08:45:31 AM
The answer is not many and not for very long, they were refitted quickly. Exact numbers arn't known.
Title: Re: Western Desert PzIII Armament question
Post by: sultanbev on 07 November 2021, 08:47:59 AM
No.
The tanks often mistaken for 37mm armed variants were BefehlsPanzer III with dummy gun. Jentz PanzerTruppen vol.1 pg.158 clearly states they were all 5cm armed, mostly Ausf G with a few Ausf H.
Title: Re: Western Desert PzIII Armament question
Post by: Orcs on 07 November 2021, 03:37:38 PM
From " Tank Battles in miniature"  Western Desert Campaign by Donald Featherstone (Blessed be his name) who was actually there includes the 37mm Pzlll in his equipment lists, but maked the following comments.

Hitler personally ordered that from August 1942 ,all Mark ll tanks being repaired in factories must be fitted with the 50mm
He also states that Some of the early 37mm Pz111 carried two machine  guns in the gun mantlet and were used exclusively by staff officers and observation purposes.
Title: Re: Western Desert PzIII Armament question
Post by: kustenjaeger on 07 November 2021, 08:49:10 PM
Jentz used German records to identify the tanks despatched to North Africa.  His 'Tank Combat in North Africa' p.34-38 identifies the 71 Pzkw III planned to ship to Africa of Pz-Rgt.5 (10 were lost in a ship fire) as being produced from July to October 1940 all with 5cm Kako L42 guns and being mainly Ausf G and some Ausf F and H. The regiment had 4 PzBefWg with dummy 3.7cm guns. The 71 Pzkw III of Pz-Rgt.8 were 51 Ausf H and 10 Ausf F or G. The regiment had 6 PzBefWg with dummy 3.7cm guns.

Edward
Title: Re: Western Desert PzIII Armament question
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 08 November 2021, 01:37:54 AM
So... no 37mm, then. Thanks for assistance!  :)