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Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 October 2021, 07:45:18 PM

Title: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 October 2021, 07:45:18 PM
SPLITTERS!
Hi all,
Come December I am using a Jewish Revolt army in a 'friendly company at Wolvercote on Oxford. SPLITTERS!
The ultimate insane list. 9 fighting units, 8 units of skirmishers, generals are Woderwick, Woger, Wyberton and Brian...

Now, the serious bit.
Figures...
Forged in Battle do a dedicated Jewish Maccabian range in 15mm.
So do Xyston...
But you know me, I would rather do 10mm.
What ranges can I get away with?
SPLITTERS!
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 October 2021, 08:25:57 PM
And MM
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 21 October 2021, 10:20:29 PM
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 21 October 2021, 07:45:18 PM
SPLITTERS!
Hi all,
Come December I am using a Jewish Revolt army in a 'friendly company at Wolvercote on Oxford. SPLITTERS!
The ultimate insane list. 9 fighting units, 8 units of skirmishers, generals are Woderwick, Woger, Wyberton and Brian...

Now, the serious bit.
Figures...
Forged in Battle do a dedicated Jewish Maccabian range in 15mm.
So do Xyston...
But you know me, I would rather do 10mm.
What ranges can I get away with?
SPLITTERS!

That rather depends which revolt you have in mind.

A Maccabean army (at least the regulars) will have a fairly Helllenistic look, but white tunics with a blue hemline.

The later ones were such splitters that you have three to choose from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars)

And shouldn't the 4th general be Bwian?
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: pierre the shy on 22 October 2021, 01:03:09 AM
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 21 October 2021, 10:20:29 PM
And shouldn't the 4th general be Bwian?

There's no pleasing some people!  ;)
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 22 October 2021, 05:51:56 AM
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 21 October 2021, 10:20:29 PM
That rather depends which revolt you have in mind.

A Maccabean army (at least the regulars) will have a fairly Helllenistic look, but white tunics with a blue hemline.

The later ones were such splitters that you have three to choose from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish%E2%80%93Roman_wars)

And shouldn't the 4th general be Bwian?

Thank-you,
1st Revolt definitely.
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 22 October 2021, 06:11:46 AM
Very silly idea, have fun....
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 22 October 2021, 07:36:23 AM
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 22 October 2021, 06:11:46 AM
Very silly idea, have fun....
It's one of those lists where if you get one win it will be the greatest celebration ever!  8)
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Big Insect on 22 October 2021, 08:32:07 AM
But wat about an allied Wroman division? Commanded by Bigguth Dickuth?
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: DecemDave on 22 October 2021, 08:49:20 AM
If you are going full Python, then the army should also have unreliable allies from its own list. 
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 22 October 2021, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 22 October 2021, 05:51:56 AM
Thank-you,
1st Revolt definitely.

My memory is a bit shaky, so I could be out by a century or so.

I recall Herod had a foreign guard (The in thing for every hated tyrant of the age), with Gauls, Germans and (Brain fading a bit) maybe Spaniards.
There would have been contingents of Hellenistics (Peltast types, and maybe some horsemen).

The fighting strength of the native revolt will be generic middle eastern warriors.
You can probably improvise with packs from the Greek, Carthaginian and Republican Roman lists.
No Trousers, so no Gauls or Persians.
Avoid the obviously well armed or armoured - so things like peltasts, Italian allies, Spanish auxiliaries, and suitably selected archers and slingers.

Supporting these will be the hordes.
A few of the above mixed with a lot of Greek/Roman civilians.


Good luck, please post pictures.



Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 22 October 2021, 09:30:25 PM
Order in...

With Pendraken of course (at least 20 cheaper than any 15mm competator, didn't even cost up MM...)
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: FierceKitty on 22 October 2021, 11:59:24 PM
Herod was a longggg time before the great revolt. Does the dress of the 23rd Berkshire at Waterloo provide much guide to their appearance at Alamein?
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Ithoriel on 23 October 2021, 04:23:25 AM
Posted by: FierceKitty

"Herod was a longggg time before the great revolt. Does the dress of the 23rd Berkshire at Waterloo provide much guide to their appearance at Alamein? "

Wut?

Firstly are we talking Herod the Great or Herod Antipas?

Herod the Great died sometime 4BCE to 1BCE. The Great Jewish Revolt starts in 66CE. So we're looking at 70 years or so. At a time when the pace of change was rather slower for the most part than it is now.

If Antipas we are probably talking 20 years or less. So 1918 to 1939 sort of timescale.

Though, given the Tetrarchs were in power courtesy of the Romans, any foreign bodyguards are likely to be fighting against the Jews rather than for them. 

The Jews would mainly be unarmoured slingers, archers or javelinmen. Psiloi or Peltast types in the main. Shields seem to be mainly small and round.

So, the suggestions by steve_holmes_11 seem about right to me.


Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: FierceKitty on 23 October 2021, 04:57:19 AM
One slinger should be enough.
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 23 October 2021, 05:57:47 AM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 23 October 2021, 04:57:19 AM
One slinger should be enough.

Not called David by any chance ? Cause he's defo BCE !
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 23 October 2021, 08:25:00 AM
Crucifixion... you lucky lucky....
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Techno II on 23 October 2021, 09:56:17 AM
Stwike him Centurwian.....

Vewwy, Wuffly.

Cheers - Sillius Soddus.  ;)
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: FierceKitty on 23 October 2021, 10:12:12 AM
And thwow him to the gwound, sir?
Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 23 October 2021, 10:46:54 AM
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 23 October 2021, 08:25:00 AM
Crucifixion... you lucky lucky....

Slingers, you say, don't forget this lot.

(https://workprog.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/life-of-brian.jpg)

Interesting ideas for a camp.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNJ0m7HPcYV2wF6VZsqLUmdmLNf96T1ibUTA&usqp=CAU)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/digital/video/hero/Movies/Top250/B001P59V5Y_lifeofbrian_UXSY1._RI_.jpg)

Or some cricket commentators with a big cake.

(https://www.hachette.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/hbg-title-9780340824719-3.jpg?fit=440%2C675)

Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 23 October 2021, 11:01:57 AM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 23 October 2021, 04:23:25 AM
Posted by: FierceKitty

"Herod was a longggg time before the great revolt. Does the dress of the 23rd Berkshire at Waterloo provide much guide to their appearance at Alamein? "

Wut?

Firstly are we talking Herod the Great or Herod Antipas?

Herod the Great died sometime 4BCE to 1BCE. The Great Jewish Revolt starts in 66CE. So we're looking at 70 years or so. At a time when the pace of change was rather slower for the most part than it is now.

If Antipas we are probably talking 20 years or less. So 1918 to 1939 sort of timescale.

Though, given the Tetrarchs were in power courtesy of the Romans, any foreign bodyguards are likely to be fighting against the Jews rather than for them. 

The Jews would mainly be unarmoured slingers, archers or javelinmen. Psiloi or Peltast types in the main. Shields seem to be mainly small and round.

So, the suggestions by steve_holmes_11 seem about right to me.

Checked my sources.

Herod Agrippa II (Herod is the dynastic name - all the rulers were Herods) ruled at the time of the revolt.
Attempted to Romanize his people and was expelled in the early stages.

Chances are that his guard would have resembled Roman auxiliaries.
And would have left in a hurry, or fought against the revolt.

The best argument for any regular looking troops would be captured shields and armour after the initial victories.
When the historic record is foggy, I'm inclined to let imagination fill the gaps.


Title: Re: Jewish Revolt
Post by: Techno II on 23 October 2021, 01:16:43 PM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 23 October 2021, 10:12:12 AM
And thwow him to the gwound, sir?


Whut ?

Yes....thwow him to the gwound....Jewish wapscalion...(says he, getting totally out of sync.)

Cheers - Bwyan.  :)