Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: steve_holmes_11 on 16 August 2021, 11:11:14 PM

Title: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 16 August 2021, 11:11:14 PM
Request for advice.

I have three really useful boxes (a4 page footprint).
Also three A4 sheets of mild steel.

Last summer I fixed the steel into the boxes using silicone sealant (The stickiest substance known to mankind).
What could possibly go wrong?

Opened the "elephant" box today to fins one A4 steel sheet with a load of silicone underneath.
Most definitely NOT stuck to the inside of the really useful box.

This is supposed to be a "storage and transport" solution, so having my heffalumps (some ridden by flimsy parasol beareres) bouncing around in the car boot isn't part of the plan.

Can anybody with practical experience, recomend an adhesive that will stick to a steel sheet and areally useful box.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Orcs on 16 August 2021, 11:41:09 PM
My suggestion would be to invest in some of the MDF trays From Walt at Commission figurines. and then stick the steel to them.  he does a variety of depths but if you are only using one layer ,the base depth is irrelevant.

The "yarkshire gamer" on his blog has used some of the RUB upside down so the figures are based on MDF he has screwed to the lid, as he could not find a way to stick them.

http://yarkshiregamer.blogspot.com/

If you click on the 28mm Italian wars section and scroll down you will find the video.

Just lasered do some Foam trays for A4 RUB, postage is  very expensive though

https://justlasered.co.uk/shop/pick-n-pluck/
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Ithoriel on 17 August 2021, 12:39:24 AM
I have some MDF Really Useful Box trays from Warbases (https://warbases.co.uk/product-category/accessories/rub-inserts/) which I've found to be really useful too! :)
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Steve J on 17 August 2021, 06:13:35 AM
Double sided tape would be my first choice. Silicone sealant and the RUB plastic will stick together, but after a while it is very easy for it to peel away as the silicone dries out. Ditto the mild steel.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Norm on 17 August 2021, 07:00:43 AM
I line my 4L really useful box edges with cardboard to keep the light out. I use Copydex glue (bought mine in Rymans) in a small bottle with a brush and just to 'spot' gluing, 2 blobs per side. The latex type glue seems to have held everything in place without issue.

The only qualifier I would make, that may need some research is that in my use, one surface is porous (the card) and obviously the other (the plastic) is not ....... However, I also use copydex to glue figures (metal / plastic) to painting sticks (wood dowel)  and they hold good until ready to prise away. I have noticed that the glue gets harder over a number of days.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Techno II on 17 August 2021, 07:17:20 AM
Don't know if this would work, Steve, but have you tried 'roughing up' the surface of the really useful boxes with glass paper ?...Might give more of a key to 'the glue'

I've got lots of small really useful boxes that I use to pack and send masters to Leon.
The surfaces of those are VERY smooth and shiny, and I wouldn't really expect anything to stick to those surfaces without 'keying' them first.

Cheers - Phil. :)
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Big Insect on 17 August 2021, 07:36:07 AM
Gorilla Glue - it sticks anything & everything (including fingers) but once stuck that it is it ... it is well & truly stuck!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Orcs on 17 August 2021, 08:55:09 AM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 17 August 2021, 12:39:24 AM
I have some MDF Really Useful Box trays from Warbases (https://warbases.co.uk/product-category/accessories/rub-inserts/) which I've found to be really useful too! :)

I think Walt has more depth options and is a bit cheaper.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: John Cook on 17 August 2021, 08:57:18 AM
Quote from: Techno II on 17 August 2021, 07:17:20 AM
Don't know if this would work, Steve, but have you tried 'roughing up' the surface of the really useful boxes with glass paper ?...Might give more of a key to 'the glue'

Exactly.  I line my Really Useful trays with a non-slip liner.  I score the inside of the tray and use an impact adhesive, such as Evo stick.  Never had a problem.  You definitely need something for the adhesive to key onto.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 17 August 2021, 10:08:09 AM
Quote from: Big Insect on 17 August 2021, 07:36:07 AM
Gorilla Glue - it sticks anything & everything (including fingers) but once stuck that it is it ... it is well & truly stuck!  ;D ;D ;D

Inculding Fingers Mark ?  :D
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 17 August 2021, 10:12:01 AM
Thanks all, I'll make a start with double-sided tape, with a few other solutions up my sleeve in case that fails.

Norm: What's the motivation to keep the light out?

Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Big Insect on 17 August 2021, 03:58:39 PM
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 17 August 2021, 10:08:09 AM
Inculding Fingers Mark ?  :D

Yup - I had to use a scalpel to separate a couple of fingers that I'd accidently stuck to a figure a while back - not at all pleasant!
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: fsn on 17 August 2021, 04:40:33 PM
Is it called Gorilla Glue because it is made to stick gorillas, or because it is made from gorillas?  :-\

I mean, wood glue is not made from wood, and you don't use PVA glue to stick ... PVA.

Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: sunjester on 17 August 2021, 05:03:38 PM
I would second Walt at Commission Figurines, I have used quite a few of this mdf liners in my RUB collection!
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Raider4 on 17 August 2021, 05:17:44 PM
Quote from: fsn on 17 August 2021, 04:40:33 PM
Is it called Gorilla Glue because it is made to stick gorillas, or because it is made from gorillas? I mean, wood glue is not made from wood, and you don't use PVA glue to stick ... PVA.

Well, what do you use duck tape for?
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: John Cook on 17 August 2021, 05:20:39 PM
Quote from: Big Insect on 17 August 2021, 07:36:07 AM
Gorilla Glue - it sticks anything & everything (including fingers) but once stuck that it is it ... it is well & truly stuck!  ;D ;D ;D

What kind of Gorilla Glue?  There are several kinds.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: fred. on 17 August 2021, 06:25:30 PM
Coming to this thread a bit late - but it would be worth checking that the bottom of the RUB is actually flat. I put an MDF sheet with cut outs for 2p pieces in one, using doubled sided tape to hold down, but discovered that towards the middle there was a bit of a dip and the figures ended up under the MDF sheet. The difference was just a couple of mm, but may be part of the reason why the metal is coming away. Some kind of gap filling glue would be useful (which I suspect the silicon sealant is).

I'm also a fan of the Commission Figurine trays - they enable me to get many layers of figures and tanks into a RUB - often to the degree that 9L become a bit of a weight lifting challenge!

Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: fsn on 17 August 2021, 06:27:44 PM
Quote from: Raider4 on 17 August 2021, 05:17:44 PM
Well, what do you use duck tape for?
That's between me and my therapist.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Norm on 17 August 2021, 06:48:18 PM
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 17 August 2021, 10:12:01 AM
Thanks all, I'll make a start with double-sided tape, with a few other solutions up my sleeve in case that fails.

Norm: What's the motivation to keep the light out?



Steve, it is mainly just to protect those armies that carry paper flags. It may be an unnecessary step, but I do it anyway. The sides are card lined and the lid on the top box has a fablon type covering, again to keep the light down.  I know some people have their units behind glass in display cases for years without detriment, so perhaps I am being too cautious, no doubt others will add their experiences of knowledge on the subject of UV.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: chrishanley on 17 August 2021, 07:47:56 PM
CT1

Make sure you de-grease and lightly abrade both surfaces
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Orcs on 17 August 2021, 08:07:11 PM
Quote from: chrishanley on 17 August 2021, 07:47:56 PM
CT1

Make sure you de-grease and lightly abrade both surfaces


Is that on the Gorilla's  or the Ducks?
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 17 August 2021, 10:43:08 PM
Quote from: John Cook on 17 August 2021, 05:20:39 PM
What kind of Gorilla Glue?  There are several kinds.

Ugandan Mountain Gorilla?
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 17 August 2021, 10:47:17 PM
Quote from: fred. on 17 August 2021, 06:25:30 PM
Coming to this thread a bit late - but it would be worth checking that the bottom of the RUB is actually flat. I put an MDF sheet with cut outs for 2p pieces in one, using doubled sided tape to hold down, but discovered that towards the middle there was a bit of a dip and the figures ended up under the MDF sheet. The difference was just a couple of mm, but may be part of the reason why the metal is coming away. Some kind of gap filling glue would be useful (which I suspect the silicon sealant is).

I'm also a fan of the Commission Figurine trays - they enable me to get many layers of figures and tanks into a RUB - often to the degree that 9L become a bit of a weight lifting challenge!

This is true, the base has a bit of flex to it, and the structure of the box means it isn't flush with any ground surface.
I'll investigate that as a potential cause for the sealant unpeeling.

Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 09 September 2021, 01:02:14 PM
Update:

I've fixed my steel sheets in by looping duct tape to create double sided pads.
Time will tell whether that holds, or whether they will gradually peel away under duress.

Meanwhile I've found a supplier that ships the 4L boxes lined with a self adhesive ferro sheet.
I hope it's OK posting this here, since I don't see any competition with existing Pendraken / Minibits stuff.

https://magneticdisplays.co.uk/magnetic-displays/ferro%20sheet (https://magneticdisplays.co.uk/magnetic-displays/ferro%20sheet)

The Ferro sheet is that flexible rubber stuff infused with something that sticks to magnets, but isn't magnetized.

I've not tried it yet, but imagine the following pros and cons.
+1: Sheet is flexible, so less likely to part company from the flexible polythene box than a hard bit of steel (like what I use).
+1: Sheet is rubberised, so less likely to rust than a pure pit of mild steel (LWIU).
-1: There's less magnetic "stuff" per area, so probably less grabby than the steel.
-1: If it flexes with the box base (which is good for remaining attached to the box), it will be less grabby for the minis protected within the box.


LWIU, stuff and grabby are all approved scientific terms, comparable to, but not defined within the SI system.
Title: Re: Help! need to fix steel inside really useful boxes.
Post by: Big Insect on 09 September 2021, 01:50:05 PM
Quote from: John Cook on 17 August 2021, 05:20:39 PM
What kind of Gorilla Glue?  There are several kinds.

The instant super-glue type.
I've also used the wood-glue - that also works well for wood-on-wood fixing.
But neither are cheap