Today I finished the bits and pieces on my painting table.
So I looked at the three boxes of renaissance figures to sort them out for playing Furioso. PANIC!.
The figures are gloss varnished.- ok a quick matt varnish should sort that out
The bases are horrible and some are curly. (beer mats advertising Barbican alchohol free lager) - You would think they would last longer than 40 years - Urgent request to add some 300 bases onto Pendraken order I placed last night.
I do not have enough figures to make complete units - no problem I have some unpainted Essex/Mikes models in the garage loft.
When I come down from the loft even I am flabbergasted at the amount of unpainted 15mm renaissance figures I found.
I have Polish, Ottomans, Loads of Italian Wars. Too many to count so I weighed them.......... 8 (yes eight) Kilos.
Whoops
8 kilos! A wonder the ceiling didn't cave in ;).
An Uncle, upon moving into his new farmhouse, found an unexploded AA round lodged in the loft. Rapidly 'disposed of' in the farm river.
Do not try this at home. kids... YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THIS1 :o
Only 8 kilos ?
I remember at secondary school in the '70's, the police giving a talk in assembly about playing with live bullets and if anyone had some they should hand them in. IIRC a couple of kids did have some, but where they got them from, God only knows.
Have heard of 'Live' artillery rounds being valued 'Fireside' ornaments... until some visitor thought "Eh!" lol!
Or Grenades... minus clip and pin... being 'chucked around' for decades. Still 'live'!
A drunken bunch of 'us' were at a mate's house, long ago, (pre Gun Cabinet?).... HE wasn't there! His shotgun was found... and messed with... until somebody thought... "Hey, This Is 'x's... maybe He keeps it LOADED!" LOL! ;D No one checked... just put back! :)
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 27 July 2021, 08:37:56 AM
A veritable lead molehill.
Ah but thats probably just the renaissance box
We had a French 75 shell from the Western Front on our parents mantleshelf for decades after my father liberated it from France in the early 1960s... Until my youngest brother thought it should really be checked. The RE blew it up on a local bit of rough ground. Yes, it was live...
Quote from: DecemDave on 27 July 2021, 09:14:01 AM
Ah but thats probably just the renaissance box
Unfortunately You are correct, there are many others :)
Of course you didna buy em, squirrals dropped em off over the years.
Poles and Ottomans! :D Get painting :d :d
Quote from: Ben Waterhouse on 27 July 2021, 09:36:14 AM
We had a French 75 shell from the Western Front on our parents mantleshelf for decades after my father liberated it from France in the early 1960s... Until my youngest brother thought it should really be checked. The RE blew it up on a local bit of rough ground. Yes, it was live...
Reminds me of an old schoolpal who contacted me recently on Facebook.
I'd mentioned Carronade and posted pictures from a road trip to Falkirk.
He then mentioned that his house while we were at school (Nice part of Chigwell a few doors down from Rod Stewart) had a pair of Carronades as driveway ornaments.
Interesting anecdote about the removal firm who brought and placed them (A couple of guys who looked like Geoff Capes, none of that new fangled winch and cable nonsense).
He assured me they were perfectly legal. A bit of steel hammered down the touch hole or something.
Warning:
I strongly recommend NOT storing any spare Carronades (or other Nelson era naval ordnance) in your loft.
Modern building standards aren't as demanding as the deck designs of King George's navy.
Re: 'King George's Navy'...have been reading the Patrick O' Brian books... ('Master And Commander', etc.). Now, he seemed to 'know his stuff'... but I am amazed at some of the 'possible' capabilities of sailing ship crews in the novels!
Had always assumed that various 'bits' of mast, yards, etc. ...were 'just there'... and damage was 'jury rigged' to get to port. Are the books credible? Given the size of a Frigate, just 'where' could spares be stored? And crews fully capable of 'raising or lowering', major parts of masts as 'routine' on the high seas? Or, storing 'Carronades' etc. in the hold... until required! Much 'battle damage' repaired from shipboard supplies... or go onshore to find some timber!
Artistic license or 'semi' factual? Hard to believe, but, with woodworking artisan skills and a couple of hundred crew... 'possible'? Anyone know?
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F1BF/production/_119578816_dpa-23459670.jpg)
I'm just going to leave this link to explain https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57965260 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57965260)
Aye, but that was in his basement. Doubt anyone's got a loft big or strong enough to keep that in!
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 27 July 2021, 05:19:06 PM
Re: 'King George's Navy'...have been reading the Patrick O' Brian books... ('Master And Commander', etc.). Now, he seemed to 'know his stuff'... but I am amazed at some of the 'possible' capabilities of sailing ship crews in the novels!
Had always assumed that various 'bits' of mast, yards, etc. ...were 'just there'... and damage was 'jury rigged' to get to port. Are the books credible? Given the size of a Frigate, just 'where' could spares be stored? And crews fully capable of 'raising or lowering', major parts of masts as 'routine' on the high seas? Or, storing 'Carronades' etc. in the hold... until required! Much 'battle damage' repaired from shipboard supplies... or go onshore to find some timber!
Artistic license or 'semi' factual? Hard to believe, but, with woodworking artisan skills and a couple of hundred crew... 'possible'? Anyone know?
Wikipedia suggests the following
RiggingDepending on its size and purpose a sail-powered boat may carry a limited amount of repair materials, from which some form of jury rig can be fashioned. Additionally, anything salvageable, such as a spar or spinnaker pole, could be adapted to carrying a form of sail.
Ships typically carried a selection of spare parts (e.g., items such as topmasts), but at up to 1 meter (3 ft 3 in) in diameter the lower masts were too large to freight spares. Example jury-rig configurations include:
A spare topmast
The main boom of a brig
Replacing the foremast with the mizzenmast (mentioned in W. Brady's The Kedge Anchor (1852))
The bowsprit set upright and tied to the stump of the original mast.
The jury mast knot may provide anchor points for securing makeshift stays and shrouds to support a jury mast, although there is a lack of evidence of the knot's actual historical use.
Jury rigs are not limited to boats designed for sail propulsion. Any form of craft found without power can be adapted to carry jury sail as necessary. In addition, other essential components of a boat or ship, such as a rudder or tiller, can be said to be "jury rigged" when a repair is improvised out of materials at hand.
Re: Sail and rigging. Although I prefer Forrester's Hornblower, the O'Brian books seem to indicate that Sail Warships were vastly more complex and crews much more 'skilled' than I had imagined.
I have not seen HMS Trincomalee at Hartlepool close up, but even HMS Victory isn't all that big. I had never considered ships carrying spare spars or 'wood' sufficient for repairs or replacing gun carriages, boats, etc. , thinking that they would have any available space stuffed with water / food for extended service. The organisation skills just for stowage and access would put much modern business warehousing to shame... when everything was moved by muscle in very restricted space... and as for 'sending up a Topmast' by rigging tackle... in mid ocean! Frankly, becoming rather awed!
As for the complexities of 'sailing' to advantage in a 'chase' / combat... well, don't think MY brain could cope with 'Age Of Sail' gaming! lol.
As for the Panther... the amount of work that must have gone into that... I couldn't 'bodge up' my old cars enough to keep them on the road for long! :'(( And, don't you just Love Law and Lawyers... ).
A lot of Royal Navy ships seemed to have a carpenter (or several) on board, that would seem pointless unless they also carried sufficient raw materials/spares for then to make use of?
Yes there would be at least 1 carpenter abord most naval vessels - this continues into artificers today. The carpenter would have had some materaials avliable, but could also improvise from stuff in the local area supposiong there were trees around. Wooden hulls and masts do have some advantage.
Ahem.....Back to the original point........ :D
A very big wasps' nest.....I didn't half go back down the ladder quickly.
(This was back in Notts......not here !)
Cheers - Phil. :)
Blimey! How long did it take you to run from Notts to S Wales?
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 28 July 2021, 02:42:15 PM
Yes there would be at least 1 carpenter abord most naval vessels - this continues into artificers today. The carpenter would have had some materaials avliable, but could also improvise from stuff in the local area supposiong there were trees around. Wooden hulls and masts do have some advantage.
According to "Nelson's Navy" (Brian Lavery, Conway, 1989) every ship had a carpenter and most had carpenters mates. Carpenters had to be trained ashore and then 6 months as a carpenter's mate with certificates of good conduct. Equal pay to boatswain and gunner, and had a crew of up to 10 men on a large ship.
Responsible for "keeping the ship afloat". Had a store room in the orlop with a supply of timber and nails. In the event of fire the carpenters "were to open the cocks that allowed water into the pump well".
I am sure I read of a ship that during WWII lost engine power due to enemy action and managed to jury rig sufficient sail area to get home. It may have been a Flower class corvette, but I cannot remember the name of the ship or the circumstances, but I am sure someone will...
Whilst my knowledge of sailing ships is limited to Thames Barges and 40m Sail Training ships, all quite modest compared to even a frigate of the Nelson era, I can attest that spars and yards and top-masts are hoisted aloft from the deck using just the vessels own gear.
When learning to sail on a more modest two masted 50' ketch back in the seventies the skipper would sometimes announce 'Jury Rig' day. The rules were that you could use any sail in any conceivable way, as long as it was not designed to be hoisted in that way. So the genoa would be hoisted upside down in place of the mainsail, various 'tween mast staysails would fly from the mizzen and even the storm jib suspended under the boom and sheeted back to the transom was tried. I'm not sure such fun would be allowed nowdays.
As for the Jury Knot. I have only ever seen them in those display cases of knots you see on the wall of a nautical themed pub.
I know an ex-naval officer who is really good at repairing or constructing items from bits and pieces; since leaving the service to marry, he's opened a successful home renovation business. He wasn't even the one responsible for repairs on his ship. I suspect a real age of sail ship's carpenter could have improvised a 74 from a discarded matchbox and two lolly sticks.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 04 October 2021, 01:46:42 AM
I know an ex-naval officer who is really good at repairing or constructing items from bits and pieces; since leaving the service to marry, he's opened a successful home renovation business. He wasn't even the one responsible for repairs on his ship. I suspect a real age of sail ship's carpenter could have improvised a 74 from a discarded matchbox and two lolly sticks.
TWO lolly sticks! - that sounds extravagant :)
I heard it was one cocktail stick !
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 27 July 2021, 05:19:06 PM
Re: 'King George's Navy'...have been reading the Patrick O' Brian books... ('Master And Commander', etc.). Now, he seemed to 'know his stuff'... but I am amazed at some of the 'possible' capabilities of sailing ship crews in the novels!
Had always assumed that various 'bits' of mast, yards, etc. ...were 'just there'... and damage was 'jury rigged' to get to port. Are the books credible? Given the size of a Frigate, just 'where' could spares be stored? And crews fully capable of 'raising or lowering', major parts of masts as 'routine' on the high seas? Or, storing 'Carronades' etc. in the hold... until required! Much 'battle damage' repaired from shipboard supplies... or go onshore to find some timber!
Artistic license or 'semi' factual? Hard to believe, but, with woodworking artisan skills and a couple of hundred crew... 'possible'? Anyone know?
It's amazing what you can achieve with a windlass, block and tackle, 40 sturdy jack-tars and solid timber bits.
Bear in mind that they'd weigh anchor (maybe 2 tonnes) with the Windlass, then consider the load the masts and yards bear in a strong wind.
It's like knocking up a Meccano crane, but in big scale.
The bit that astounds me is that fairly large ships retained a single carpenter for repairs.
What those guys achieved (without power tools) is quit remarkable.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 04 October 2021, 01:46:42 AM
I know an ex-naval officer who is really good at repairing or constructing items from bits and pieces; since leaving the service to marry, he's opened a successful home renovation business. He wasn't even the one responsible for repairs on his ship. I suspect a real age of sail ship's carpenter could have improvised a 74 from a discarded matchbox and two lolly sticks.
Those were the days before sticky-backed plastic.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 04 October 2021, 09:16:28 AM
The bit that astounds me is that fairly large ships retained a single carpenter for repairs.
What those guys achieved (without power tools) is quit remarkable.
In the days before Trust-a-Trader I suspect that a sizeable minority of the crew could sensibly be co-opted into assisting with repairs.
The blocks for the pyramids were cut with copper chisels. Our forebears made up (with time, manpower and persistence) for their lack of power tools.
Remarkable indeed.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 04 October 2021, 01:29:37 PM
In the days before Trust-a-Trader I suspect that a sizeable minority of the crew could sensibly be co-opted into assisting with repairs.
The blocks for the pyramids were cut with copper chisels. Our forebears made up (with time, manpower and persistence) for their lack of power tools.
Remarkable indeed.
FSN has pointed out that the master carpenter had up to 10 assistants (Presumably fewer on smaller ships) and it's reasonable to expect limitless numbers of able and ordinary seamen to join in with the donkey work.
I forget which TV programme descriibed the copper chisels.
Each stonemason had a relay of chisels (Copper, or even bronze is soft), and a crew of sharpeners to enure there was always at least one good chisel ready to go.
The real secret of the ancients is "Lots of people lots of time".