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Non-Wargaming Discussion => Chat & News => Topic started by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 01 July 2021, 09:23:12 PM

Title: The Watch
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 01 July 2021, 09:23:12 PM
I'm actually rather enjoying this series.
Despite the detractors and purists.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: jimduncanuk on 01 July 2021, 09:30:08 PM
And, 'The Watch' is?
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Raider4 on 01 July 2021, 09:31:03 PM
(Off to Wikipedia to find out what's going on here)

Okay, not encouraging, but I have an open mind . . .

Where might we watch this?
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: jimduncanuk on 01 July 2021, 09:41:03 PM
Could be a Terry Pratchett offering.

Maybe a Dutch painting.

Or a police program.

Who knows.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 01 July 2021, 10:39:29 PM
It's on t'Iplayer.
Based (loosely) on Vimes et al
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: jimduncanuk on 01 July 2021, 10:43:48 PM
Kept that one quiet!
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 02 July 2021, 12:27:12 AM
Loved Pratchett books. Never really felt inclined to watch or listen to. Too much 'investment' in my imagination... AND the book 'Art'! lol.
From what I've read... not really 'true' to the books... mmm, maybe someday.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Raider4 on 02 July 2021, 06:20:03 AM


Okay . . . this is definitely not the Ankh-Morpork I remember reading!
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Steve J on 02 July 2021, 06:38:37 AM
Well the trailer was visually excellent and a bit of Plastique Bertrand helps too! Will check this out and see what the family thinks.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 02 July 2021, 07:18:06 AM
Quote from: Raider4 on 02 July 2021, 06:20:03 AM
Okay . . . this is definitely not the Ankh-Morpork I remember reading!

Or me ! :o

From that clip, I couldn't decide whether it was based on 'Guards, Guards', or the 'Night Watch'......Does look spectacular, though

Recently bought the Terry Pratchett BBC Radio Drama collection......That's not bad, at all !....Especially the two stories mentioned above.

Cheers - Phil. :)
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Big Insect on 02 July 2021, 08:35:21 AM
As a huge (early) Pratchett fan I shall give it a trial, thanks for pointing it out
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Raider4 on 02 July 2021, 09:20:34 AM
Okay, watched the 1st episode - it's certainly a different take on things. Am intrigued and will continue watching.

2 problems though:
1) Occasionally find the dialogue hard to follow. Too quiet? Too low down in the mix? People speaking too fast? Dunno, but it doesn't just affect this program. Maybe I'm just getting old . . .
2) Getting a bit tired of all the gurning the actor playing Vimes is doing. But don't think that's going to go away.

Plotwise, there's certainly 'Guards, Guards' in there, but bits from other books as well.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: mmcv on 02 July 2021, 09:36:54 AM
I've been sceptical of it, pretty much everything I've read on it in the past couple of years leading up to it has been largely negative given how far off track they went from the source material. Regardless, I probably will watch it sometime with a "this is not actually Pratchett" mindset to see, but not hopeful and as I understand the Pratchett estate (primarily his daughter who was involved early on then left) has distanced itself from it. Indeed they stopped mentioning Pratchett in a lot of the promotional stuff.

Though at the end of the day, it won't take anything away from the books, and if it encourages a few people to take the dive into the books and discover all the joy and fun to be had there, all the better. I think the intention was to draw from a few different plots and mix them up a bit to fit into the new world they came up with.

In other news, there is apparently to be a Good Omens season 2, with Neil Gaimen still involved so hopefully potential to be good. (He also didn't have much nice to say about the Watch...)
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Ithoriel on 02 July 2021, 11:02:05 AM
Via Reddit

(https://preview.redd.it/k1kwtzciuc871.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=eb001ad379eb06cd77efdaab12654dea5378a4c1)
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: mmcv on 02 July 2021, 11:12:49 AM
 ;D

Apparently Neil and Terry had thrashed out a plot for Good Omens 2, but with other commitments and the distance between them they never found the time to write it.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Poggle on 02 July 2021, 12:07:46 PM
I watched an episode. Didn't like it. It's not the Ankh-Morpork I know and love. The whole thing looks like a run down inner city council estate from the 60s.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Leman on 02 July 2021, 12:26:22 PM
totally unable to take to the Terry Pratchett books, TV series etc. Found them very much an emperor's new clothes.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: mmcv on 02 July 2021, 12:59:03 PM
Quote from: Leman on 02 July 2021, 12:26:22 PM
totally unable to take to the Terry Pratchett books, TV series etc. Found them very much an emperor's new clothes.

"Supposing an emperor was persuaded to wear a new suit of clothes whose material was so fine that, to the common eye, the clothes weren't there. And suppose a little boy pointed out this fact in a loud, clear voice...
Then you have The Story of the Emperor Who Had No Clothes.
But if you knew a bit more, it would be The Story of the Boy Who Got a Well-Deserved Thrashing from His Dad for Being Rude to Royalty, and Was Locked Up.
Or The Story of the Whole Crowd Who Were Rounded Up by the Guards and Told 'This Didn't Happen, OK? Does Anyone Want to Argue?'
Or it could be a story of how a whole kingdom suddenly saw the benefit of the 'new clothes', and developed an enthusiasm for healthy sports in a lively and refreshing atmosphere which got many new adherents every year, and led to a recession caused by the collapse of the conventional clothing industry.
It could even be a story about The Great Pneumonia Epidemic of '09.
It all depends on how much you know."

― Terry Pratchett
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 02 July 2021, 01:10:16 PM
OK...Trailer  NOT 'my Pratchett'!  But as general 'silliness, might be fun. Maybe.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: FierceKitty on 02 July 2021, 02:28:48 PM
We've just tested the water. Ten minutes was too much.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 03 July 2021, 06:51:06 AM
I got through about half an hour.....Might watch some more.

For me....Bit too much of a mish-mash of different stories....and not over keen on how they've changed the characters.

Quote from: Poggle on 02 July 2021, 12:07:46 PM
It's not the Ankh-Morpork I know and love. The whole thing looks like a run down inner city council estate from the 60s.

Agreed !

Cheers - Phil :)

Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 03 July 2021, 08:31:17 AM
I'm on episode 5...
Still love it!
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Matt J on 03 July 2021, 09:35:52 AM
I'm with you Will, loving what I've seen so far. I think the setting is great. My only gripe is where are Fred and Nobby!

Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 03 July 2021, 09:52:04 AM
Yeah, I was thinking that too.  :'(
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 03 July 2021, 10:12:14 AM
Quote from: Matt J on 03 July 2021, 09:35:52 AM
I'm with you Will, loving what I've seen so far. My only gripe is where are Fred and Nobby!

Hear, hear.....and where is CMOT Dibbler ?.....Maybe he appears later ?? :-\

I WILL have another gander.....But I'm finding it very difficult to get my head around the  way the Patrician is being portrayed......and Lady Sybil being such a youngster, compared to Vimes.....Vimes is definitely wrong......As is Angua...(And was that supposed to be Cheery Littlebottom ?).....Detritus is good, as a CGI.

The 'time line' is SO wrong, as to be painful. :(

Like I said before.....A bit too much of a mish-mash......Far too much for me, in truth.

Production and special effects .......Good. :-bd

Frigging about with Pratchett's work & storylines.....Nil points.....It makes it a complete mess.

Cheers - Phil. :)



 

Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: FierceKitty on 03 July 2021, 10:35:11 AM
Google Gamian's very pertinent comment.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 03 July 2021, 11:54:14 AM
I'll guess, it's very similar to my own thoughts.

Cheers - Phil.  :)
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: fsn on 03 July 2021, 01:09:06 PM
Quote from: Matt J on 03 July 2021, 09:35:52 AM
I'm with you Will, loving what I've seen so far. I think the setting is great. My only gripe is where are Fred and Nobby!

Eh? What have I got to do with it?  :(
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 03 July 2021, 01:15:19 PM
Corperal Nobby Nobbs of the Watch, you utter OIK ( appologies Phil)
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: fsn on 03 July 2021, 01:43:13 PM
Okie-dokie. Fair enough.


He was probably named after me anyway.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 03 July 2021, 02:09:16 PM
Quote from: fsn on 03 July 2021, 01:43:13 PM
He was probably named after me anyway.

Nobody is named after you Nobby....
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 03 July 2021, 02:30:22 PM
Quote from: fsn on 03 July 2021, 01:43:13 PM
Okie-dokie. Fair enough

One day, I'll suss out what the 'F' stands for, my very good friend. :)
Francis..nah...Ferzackaly.....Fortisque......Ferdinand....

That's enough guesses. ;)

Cheers - Phil :)



Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: fsn on 03 July 2021, 02:46:04 PM
"Fantasic"
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 03 July 2021, 03:08:21 PM
Just tried to watch another five minutes.......Sorry.....A complete pile of poo....Feel sorry for the actors trying to make the screenplay work.....I won't be wasting any more time on this dross.

Phil. >:(
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Raider4 on 03 July 2021, 07:04:05 PM
Quote from: Techno II on 03 July 2021, 10:12:14 AM
.....and where is CMOT Dibbler ?.....Maybe he appears later ?? :-

Yes, she does.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: mmcv on 03 July 2021, 10:13:00 PM
Wife and I watched the first episode.

Wife's opinion (who has no knowledge of the source material): poorly acted, disjointed, and don't particularly care about what happens next. Didn't sell it to her. In fact she was falling asleep by the end.

To be fair I don't think the acting issues came from the actors themselves, more just the poor writing they had to work with.

My opinion: about the only thing it shares with the books is the names. It's like if someone read the books when they were thirteen then twenty years later told what they remembered of the story to a mate in the pub while they were sloshed, then the mate went and made a TV show of it once the hangover wore off. I kind of wish they'd just changed the names and removed the references to Terry Pratchett entirely. Even as a standalone show is seemed a bit of a mess. Like they had so many amazing characters to draw on, and many interesting stories, so don't quite get why they had to change everyone into a two dimensional pile of excrement. And they've done way too much exposition at the start, meaning they lose a lot of the jokes and intrigue. Now I admit I'm probably biased as I've a lot of love for the original works, but I can normally be open minded to the fact that books don't always translate to visual media without significant changes. But to call this inspired by Terry Pratchett is like saying Twilight is inspired by Bram Stoker....
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 04 July 2021, 05:28:45 AM
Quote from: Raider4 on 03 July 2021, 07:04:05 PM
Yes, she does.

SHE does ?

So Throat's changed sex, as well ? X_X

I think you nailed it, Matthew. ;)

Cheers - Phil. :)
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: mmcv on 04 July 2021, 06:45:02 AM
Quote from: Techno II on 04 July 2021, 05:28:45 AM
SHE does ?

So Throat's changed sex, as well ? X_X

I think you nailed it, Matthew. ;)

Cheers - Phil. :)

There is a character called Throat but bears zero resemblance to CMOT. I initially thought it was meant to be Molly, Queen of the Beggars (combined with a little bit of Arnold Sideways).

I don't mind a gender flip if it's done well. There are many characters whose personality isn't intrinsically tied to their gender. Though the books tend to have plenty of strong female characters which makes it seem a little unnecessary. But again they've taken the name and just made a completely different character.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Steve J on 04 July 2021, 09:29:07 AM
Never having read any of Pratchet's books, I will come to this with an open mind. Whether it is any good remains to be seen. We often check out series that are highlighted in the Radio Times, only to be severely disappointed.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 04 July 2021, 10:19:09 AM
Quote from: Steve J on 04 July 2021, 09:29:07 AM
Never having read any of Pratchet's books, I will come to this with an open mind.

That's probably what we need, Steve.

Cheers - Phil. :)

(Has anyone got far enough.....Through the whole thing....To see if 'Foul Old Ron' appears......"Buggrit...Millenium hand and shrimp"....If Gaspode appears, as a cat...... X_X)
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: hammurabi70 on 04 July 2021, 04:59:15 PM
I have never liked what little I have seen of the direct adaptations of his work that there have been.  In a way I prefer that they have moved well away from his storylines to create their own so inspired is, perhaps, the right word.  They do seem to have been very loose with the attachment to the source and I have mixed views on it but overall enjoyed it, so do and try it and see if it is for you.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 04 July 2021, 05:22:35 PM
Quote from: Techno II on 04 July 2021, 10:19:09 AM
That's probably what we need, Steve.

Cheers - Phil. :)

(Has anyone got far enough.....Through the whole thing....To see if 'Foul Old Ron' appears......"Buggrit...Millenium hand and shrimp"....If Gaspode appears, as a cat...... X_X)
Nooe
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Raider4 on 04 July 2021, 07:44:07 PM
Quote from: Techno II on 04 July 2021, 10:19:09 AM
....If Gaspode appears, as a cat....

There is a talking dog, widdled on Vimes' boot.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 05 July 2021, 05:44:06 AM
I tend to hate 'adapted from' or 'based on'... usually. Depends on how good the writing /  casting / sets are.
I quite enjoyed a recent TV series  'based on' Dumas 'Musketeers'... though had very  little in common with the book, and 'too many' 'Mordern Issues'... the Richard Lester films were MUCH better. Much more 'in the spirit'.. but, then, they had GMF as screenwriter!  ;)
There was a truly execrable, TV 'Beowulf' series, a couple of years back. Just used Character / Place names. Knew it was going to be 'Bad' from the promo pic... but 'Ugh!'  :(

Back in 'Middle School', a music teacher showed us 'Romeo and Juliet' (Polanski?)... and 'West Side Story'... no doubt, thinking to 'kick start' 'Arty' appreciation. I just thought that, plot apart, 'Totally Different', so what was the point?  :o
If I want to watch Shakespeare, I want it to be set 'in period', LOL! Seeing as Shakespeare was TOTALLY ' 'based on / adapted from' Tosh!  ;D ;D  ;D

Have recently watched the movie 'Master And Commander', and reading the books. Both 'good' but in different ways.
Have also bought 'The Hobbit' DVD trilogy...I  DREAD watching THAT... but suppose that I must inflict it on myself. Thought the LOTR films weren't  bad... but  preferred 'The Hobbit' as a 'readable' 'book' to LOTR 'tomes'!  :o

Loved 'Game Of Thrones' TV... until the screenwriters poxed it up by 'rushing things'.   :'( IMHO better than the 'overdone' books.

Currently watching 'The Dresden Files' DVDs. TV tosh, (A contemporary set, 'Wizzard!'), but I quite like it! Thinking about buying the books! lol.  ;D

Suppose it's all 'entertainment'... and, either you 'take to it' or You Don't!   ;D
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Last Hussar on 06 July 2021, 12:06:34 AM
I wonder how it was received by non Pratchett's fans (one wife not being a representative sample).

The biggest change for me is Sybil has morphed into Adore Belle Dearheart.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: FierceKitty on 06 July 2021, 03:31:19 AM
Lee's never read the novels, and she gave up on it before I did.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Big Insect on 06 July 2021, 10:26:38 AM
I suffered the whole series (a bored binge watch) ... it was a big mistake ... poor acting, bad direction, terrible plot line and tbf I really just couldn't see the point.
The original books were side-splittingly funny and so well observed, why oh why did anybody think they could improve on them. Pointless.
I enjoyed Good Omens, but had not read the book beforehand.

But then we saw the same thing with the Tom Sharpe novels - such as the Porterhouse Blue TV series and the same with Wilt - some things just do not translate from paper to the screen.

NB: I once got asked to leave a closed carriage on a train, in my youth, as I was laughing so uncontrollably when reading one of the Tom Sharpe novels .... I think it was one of the South African ones, with the reenactment of the battle of Isandlwana in the mental asylum. Cracking stuff! It captured both the absurdity and horror of institutional apartheid so very well.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Raider4 on 06 July 2021, 10:38:34 AM
Quote from: Big Insect on 06 July 2021, 10:26:38 AM
some things just do not translate from paper to the screen.

Yeah, this, I think. Especially with comedy.

Reading a comic passage can, as you say, make you laugh out loud. Exactly the same thing on screen can come across as leaden and unfunny.

Again, as you say, seen it with Pratchett and Sharpe. And also Douglas Adams, I think. The HHGttG TV series I thought was very poor. Not seen the film, but I gather it's not great.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: mmcv on 06 July 2021, 11:58:37 AM
I reread (well listened) to Guards! Guards! over the past couple of days. Not sure how many times I've read it now, but still very entertaining and clever.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 06 July 2021, 03:09:00 PM
Quote from: Big Insect on 06 July 2021, 10:26:38 AM
I suffered the whole series (a bored binge watch) ... it was a big mistake ... poor acting, bad direction, terrible plot line and tbf I really just couldn't see the point.
The original books were side-splittingly funny and so well observed, why oh why did anybody think they could improve on them. Pointless.
I enjoyed Good Omens, but had not read the book beforehand.

But then we saw the same thing with the Tom Sharpe novels - such as the Porterhouse Blue TV series and the same with Wilt - some things just do not translate from paper to the screen.

NB: I once got asked to leave a closed carriage on a train, in my youth, as I was laughing so uncontrollably when reading one of the Tom Sharpe novels .... I think it was one of the South African ones, with the reenactment of the battle of Isandlwana in the mental asylum. Cracking stuff! It captured both the absurdity and horror of institutional apartheid so very well.

Surley Share was too dirty - and as for racisat complaints you couldn't have put K**fer Killer Elles into a modern TV show. You will note I have censoerd the nickname.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Big Insect on 06 July 2021, 04:36:20 PM
But the south african books are so very anti-racist and ridicule the whole apartheid regime so blatantly that you might actually manage to get it produced - just to show how extreme it all was Ian. That is the point of it - it is extreme satire  :D
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 07 July 2021, 04:21:06 AM
Quote from: Big Insect on 06 July 2021, 04:36:20 PM
But the south african books are so very anti-racist and ridicule the whole apartheid regime so blatantly that you might actually manage to get it produced - just to show how extreme it all was Ian. That is the point of it - it is extreme satire  :D

VERY Valid! The Tom Sharpe books 'May' have helped to 'shape' a generation in it's views... as did so many other 'caricatures', both in literature and TV. Much 'Satire' in the 70s formed the base for 'moving on'... whether Race / Gay, or whatever. NOW, Anathema... just because...
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: FierceKitty on 07 July 2021, 05:10:17 AM
I'd rather like to know why movies always get the accents for my great and good country so wrong.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Big Insect on 07 July 2021, 09:28:15 AM
I think that accents in films/TV generally tend to head towards the extreme - in an attempt to over emphasis and 'sign-post' a usually lazy audience.

It's the same with the UK - a north welsh accent is different from a south welsh one - but the nuance is lost on the ordinary punter.
Most TV scots all have the same hard Glaswegian twang! 

Just as the well spoken - Eton educated - Englishman in an American superhero or spy film will traditionally be the villain ... "no Mr Bond, I do not expect you to talk. I expect you to die!"
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: FierceKitty on 07 July 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Great line, but hardly spoken in an English accent!
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 07 July 2021, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 07 July 2021, 09:31:44 AM
Great line, but hardly spoken in an English accent!
But, 'The Best Bond' always sounds as though He has a mouthful of St. Andrews Golf Balls.. so fair!  ;D
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Steve J on 07 July 2021, 02:20:24 PM
Well I watched nearly all of one episode, but it just didn't grab me at all. I felt no connect with the characters, the look was too 'Blade Runner' and the storyline kept chopping and changing. I won't be bothering watching anymore.
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Techno II on 09 July 2021, 06:39:39 AM
Quote from: Big Insect on 06 July 2021, 10:26:38 AM

The original books were side-splittingly funny and so well observed, why oh why did anybody think they could improve on them. Pointless.
I enjoyed Good Omens, but had not read the book beforehand.

But then we saw the same thing with the Tom Sharpe novels - such as the Porterhouse Blue TV series and the same with Wilt - some things just do not translate from paper to the screen.

Interesting...... :)

A lot of the time, I think we all 'stick' with our first 'contact' ....whether it be from a book, film, TV or radio.

I LOVED Good Omens, as a book....But found the TV series rather disappointing, to say the least.
I've never read 'The Hobbit' all the way through......I found it too twee...and gave up after barely a dozen pages......Thought the film was enormous fun.
H2G2......Introduction to that, was from the original vinyl....Then the TV....Then the BBC radio series......My favourite 'version' of that, is still from the original vinyl. (OK..that's on CD now.)
The TV series now seems very 'dated'.....And I wasn't very taken with the movie adaptation. (Best bit in that, was spotting the original BBC TV 'Marvin' right at the back, in one scene. ;))

The Discworld films seem OK (ish)......But (for me) nowhere the quality of the books.

With you, on the Tom Sharpe books, Mark.....The TV versions were definitely missing 'something'.

Cheers - Phil. :)


Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 09 July 2021, 12:39:02 PM
I read several Tom Sharpe books as a student. But frequently found that 'Well, I enjoyed that... but it WAS rater ''Nasty'... As 'social satire', that was probably the intention...
I did re-read, back then... but often just didn't like his 'take'. Have no wish to revisit now.

Pratchett, esp. his 'middle period', was always a much looked for delight!
Title: Re: The Watch
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 09 July 2021, 03:33:30 PM
One thing about Sir Terry, he was as nutty as his books, meet him a couple of times at an odd show in Peterbrough.