2021 is the year of Nobby's Napoleonics.
I'm happy with the style I have adopted for the British which I'm sure I can transfer to the Prussians, Bavarians and Wurttemburgers. However, I do have some Brunswickers and it was not for nothing that they were known as the Black Legion.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0LBgj1Pbbtg/TR5jU1ODV-I/AAAAAAAAB80/mO3WNLp1LfU/s1600/sgt%2Binf.jpg)
Does anyone have any tips for painting black uniforms?
I tend to highlight blacks with a mix of dark greys and blues, sometimes greens. However black is quite reflective and kind of makes it's own highlights.
May be just paint them black then do all the belts and paraphernalia and see how they look.
I'd try a very dark grey or possibly blue.
I concur on dark grey working well as black. There's a Vallejo Opaque Charcoal Grey I've used recently that gives good coverage, though most of my black clad troops previously have been using Army Painter Dark Stone I think.
Examples:
(https://i.imgur.com/5GBKIca.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/U3auQedIeIbhMVMtQh_JAb6Fj1rZ7et7ZI3aClbSnuh2oLyh0__Fu5SuwBOfyAinFgoDImvJMssvXbOwpSgjuVHKpejrO99GLmtbkHqTN1MAAjf17ngbjhbd8wYDyyvTc-EuepkIBTWPCSRZCb893Ne_giUYzyvsNEB7QCWuOWYeKmUlAz1dzlbXtl85LcNi4XKWqssEmozYM7pmMau7CsNOt6ylo1kLz1O5PcqUxtJHKM9IeLK119WhA1EIj_CInbsTepFrMbb1FQ1alU9QDte1jUTP1shdrrqoHc14fGRO-2zOCGT-9bUl-C0HbGLNITR8nEZ7BTTOrosvWsOGDtck6BK6i_TkgoHsD9Q4dhijH4qXwF31nR-ehun7yYZKp2Ql1puGBbRBUrRKkcS6MXUum3GglQpfP9gy6LS7aLijtxsTs_pZOn768K9zXSsoVxyxoSMIiuFnmT9LyFe_otYGjCJkYV17Fkh0GugDygxs8Ohj_dGDsOwI5f-yUbHnmFe_iq8VsLdEyAOhEAMjPOMU-dMJbSObSn9gzEQ7eCAYCmMxkWVRob5sA8x002lnobAgT_iNR7R08milUcQ9uWwme9HWKuPapwYuEeypOltBaGv2pUMOaozIKqeFIuIPADOAtQKAnt8qsbZh4R-mWItWwQ=w890-h667-no)
I mix a little flesh colour into the black. It creates a good 'rusty' black effect. From there I highlight in dark grey.
Thanks chaps. I feel some experimentation coming on.
Hesitant to give any painting advice but I used a dark navy blue for the sleeves and hats of my puritan cavalry and once it was dark shaded, it looks black to me although it can be detected close up by comparing to the black black hair .
I remember an article in a wargames mag where one of the painters added a touch of pink to black to creat a highlight. Never tried it so can't say how good or not it is. I tend to go for a very dark grey and then add a black wash over it.
I find black too dark for 10mm so use Vallejo Black Grey highlighted Basalt Grey for all my blacks
Good luck with the experiments
Quote from: ianrs54 on 02 April 2021, 12:56:24 PM
I'd try a very dark grey or possibly blue.
Yes.
Two sources of wisdom apply.
The first is "fade to grey" or "objects appear lighter" at distance.
The second if Father Ted "Only priest's socks are black Douglas, others are dark dark dark dark dark blue".
Also give some thought to the meaning of "black" in the cays before synthetic dyes.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 03 April 2021, 07:29:30 AM
Yes.
Two sources of wisdom apply.
The first is "fade to grey" or "objects appear lighter" at distance.
The second if Father Ted "Only priest's socks are black Douglas, others are dark dark dark dark dark blue".
Also give some thought to the meaning of "black" in the cays before synthetic dyes.
The qoute from Father Ted applies to the British Army, only RTR wear black berets, the rest are VERY VERY VERY Dark blue.
I have used the GV contract black paint, and found it works well.
Looking at the very dark greys they look good too
Thank you gentlemen.
Might have to try the contrast black. :-\
Quote from: fsn on 03 April 2021, 09:15:15 AM
Thank you gentlemen.
Might have to try the contrast black. :-
Remember to paint over white, and you might need two coats. I have not tried it over grey , which might be a better result
I also use Vallejo black grey instead of pure black. It seems to give a more realistic finish.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 03 April 2021, 07:29:30 AM
Yes.
Two sources of wisdom apply.
The first is "fade to grey" or "objects appear lighter" at distance.
The second if Father Ted "Only priest's socks are black Douglas, others are dark dark dark dark dark blue".
Also give some thought to the meaning of "black" in the cays before synthetic dyes.
Love it. Father Ted as a primary wargames source. "Those are not small 10mm figures Dougal, they are far, far away......" has anyone made an Escape from the Lingerie department game yet?
There is no pure black in nature so, like Paulr, I use Vallejo Black Grey with a black wash, then dry (very) brushed with khaki grey, which is what use to highlight generally because it gives a slightly dusty effect which I like. Look at that picture you posted - it is essentially multiple shades of grey. You could highlight with a light grey, even white if you prefer a more pristine effect.
Quote from: paulr on 02 April 2021, 11:26:13 PM
I find black too dark for 10mm so use Vallejo Black Grey highlighted Basalt Grey for all my blacks
Likewise :D (great minds paulr) - I also put a small amount of matt black into the matt varnish I use* as that picks out detail and deep creases etc. Not to much or they start to look dirty - especially flesh and white equipment.
* I gave up on the army painter varnish washes as I found them too unpredictable and brutal.
Pre synthetic dyes, a lot of 'black' coloring was produced in a way that actually corroded the structure of the fabric.
I found this (really interesting) blog on-line which I thought was helpful - especially the bit about the colour being corrosive. I also read that it was not particularly 'fast'.
https://refashioningrenaissance.eu/exploring-historical-blacks-the-burgundian-black-collaboratory/
In the C14th/C15th - when black clothing (for upper class men especially) was a sign of wealth - partly because it was expensive, but also because it really shows up the dirt so easily. This Oak Apple (gall) method seemed to be the primary source of black cloth dye. The same process was used from the Roman empire right up to the C17th for writing ink using iron filings and oak apples (galls).
However, it does dissolve woolen cloth specifically - so not only were your black cloths costly. they didn't last too long! As most Napoleonic Wars uniforms were made of wool, and the oak gall method was expensive, I suspect that the over-painting method described in the blog might have been used for mass produced uniforms. So a hint of red or blue in the black might be a good way to highlight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_apple
Not sure how the Chinese dyed silks black.
Some linen is naturally black when it is first made, but like most linen it lightens with sunlight and washing.
Just had a thought.
I'm also looking towards doing an Austrian army. :(
Quote from: Big Insect on 03 April 2021, 07:30:17 PM
Pre synthetic dyes, a lot of 'black' coloring was produced in a way that actually corroded the structure of the fabric.
I found this (really interesting) blog on-line which I thought was helpful - especially the bit about the colour being corrosive. I also read that it was not particularly 'fast'.
https://refashioningrenaissance.eu/exploring-historical-blacks-the-burgundian-black-collaboratory/
In the C14th/C15th - when black clothing (for upper class men especially) was a sign of wealth - partly because it was expensive, but also because it really shows up the dirt so easily. This Oak Apple (gall) method seemed to be the primary source of black cloth dye. The same process was used from the Roman empire right up to the C17th for writing ink using iron filings and oak apples (galls).
However, it does dissolve woolen cloth specifically - so not only were your black cloths costly. they didn't last too long! As most Napoleonic Wars uniforms were made of wool, and the oak gall method was expensive, I suspect that the over-painting method described in the blog might have been used for mass produced uniforms. So a hint of red or blue in the black might be a good way to highlight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_apple
Not sure how the Chinese dyed silks black.
Some linen is naturally black when it is first made, but like most linen it lightens with sunlight and washing.
A reenactor once advised me that black dye technology was introduced in the fourteenth century; as a novel process it was presumably expensive when first done. I gather the Jesuits choosing black robes is as much a fashion statement as anything else. Inexpensive purple dye was created in the nineteenth century; I would be interested if anyone knows how widespread its use was prior to the Victorian era. Apart from Emperor's robes when else was it used?
You need to read this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mauve-Invented-Color-Changed-World/dp/1435296699
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 03 April 2021, 11:50:39 PM
You need to read this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mauve-Invented-Color-Changed-World/dp/1435296699
Thank you; it looks like an interesting read. Of course there is detail here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple
My concerns are the general availability in ancient times in military use. For example, were the Vexillia used by the forces of the Byzantine Empire predominantly coloured in imperial purple or city red? Was the emblem of the Sassanian forces in purple or royal blue? A google search will generate suggestions each way.
Quote from: Big Insect on 03 April 2021, 07:30:17 PM
Not sure how the Chinese dyed silks black.
Some linen is naturally black when it is first made, but like most linen it lightens with sunlight and washing.
The Chinese used tannin-rich mud from tropical river deltas.
Quote from: fsn on 03 April 2021, 09:15:15 AM
Thank you gentlemen.
Might have to try the contrast black. :-
I've found it great on 20mm plastics - not tried on 10mm but I suspect it'll be a very easy time saver!
My approach is a grey wash over black.
In particular, Howard Hues "Panzer Grey" (1719), thinned to taste, over Liquitex Black Gesso.
I use the "Black Undercoat" method and I find black gesso works very well (grey and white versions are available too). It can be sploshed on and dries really tightly so the detail is not obscured. It also has what I believe is termed "tooth", meaning it grips the paint well; I once tried GW Chaos Black and the surface was quite slippery and I found I was dragging the subsequent colour about on the surface rather than having it cover.
I haven't actually painted anything for a while, and have not tried the Vallejo equivalent, but thought Revel 'Anthracite' was a very good 'off black'. I find true black a bit too 'harsh' for 10mm for uniform or headgear... and definitely for 'dusty' / 'worn' boots! OK for leather belts etc. as contrast over 'off black'.
Stopped using black ages ago and only use Vallejo black grey these days.
What surprises me is how 'black' police uniforms sometimes appear on the TV
To my poor old eyes, they definitely look a dark brown. (Usually when the 'boys in blue' are in bright sunshine.) :-\
Cheers - Phil. :)
Quote from: Leman on 13 May 2021, 05:59:05 PM
Stopped using black ages ago and only use Vallejo black grey these days.
Seconded, Basalt grey is a good highlight / dry brush
Quote from: Techno II on 14 May 2021, 06:31:39 AM
What surprises me is how 'black' police uniforms sometimes appear on the TV
To my poor old eyes, they definitely look a dark brown. (Usually when the 'boys in blue' are in bright sunshine.) :-
Cheers - Phil. :)
Think I've said this before but certainly my Merseyside Police uniform was black not blue. The two officers I was chatting to yesterday were also in black.
Absolutely, Ian.....In daylight, if I see a policeman/woman...No doubt about it being black.
It's just on the TV that they sometimes look a very dark brown...I guess it's the way the light sometimes strikes the material and does rather odd things......some sort of refraction on the material, perhaps ? :-\
It's usually on the 'shirt', rather than the utility jacket.
Cheers - Phil :)
Well the US system is called Never The Same Colour Twice
Quote from: Techno II on 14 May 2021, 06:31:39 AM
What surprises me is how 'black' police uniforms sometimes appear on the TV
To my poor old eyes, they definitely look a dark brown. (Usually when the 'boys in blue' are in bright sunshine.) :-
Quote from: Techno II on 15 May 2021, 07:16:34 AM
Absolutely, Ian.....In daylight, if I see a policeman/woman...No doubt about it being black.
It's just on the TV that they sometimes look a very dark brown...I guess it's the way the light sometimes strikes the material and does rather odd things......some sort of refraction on the material, perhaps ? :-
Phil, have you tried cleaning your TV screen?
:P
Nah !....I like the opaque, softer colours, Davy. ;)
Cheers - Phil :)
Quote from: Techno II on 15 May 2021, 09:56:31 AM
Nah !....I like the opaque, softer colours, Davy. ;)
Cheers - Phil :)
You mean you don't know how to Phil :-*
Are you sure your eyeballs aren't set to sepia tone ;)
The "balance" of colour is always interesting, I find I paint things and they are in one colour in the office, another in the living room, a third under the clubs awful Flourescents and a fourth when photo's!
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 15 May 2021, 10:00:12 AM
You mean you don't know how to Phil :-*
Our TV doesn't have the facility to change colours in the ultra violet and infra red ends of the spectrum, Ian. ;)
Which is what I need.
Nathan is absolutely right.....the 'colour balance' of different types of lighting shows completely different hues.....
What have we got nowadays ?
Normal daylight.....though that can vary enormously.
Tungsten (old type light bulbs).....I still use those as 'heaters' to help set the green stuff masters quickly....Those shift the 'colour temperatures' towards orange.
Florescent energy saving bulbs.....Those give a green hue.
Sodium lighting......Don't have a clue what they do, as I don't think there are any little sodium bulbs we actually use in our homes...Only time we have any interaction with sodium lighting would be on 'motorways' or big indoor venues.
Now there are LEDs...no idea what colour balance they produce.
I'll just mess about with a couple of programs I've got on the PC.
Cheers - Phil ;D ;D
Quote from: Techno II on 15 May 2021, 11:46:09 AM
I'll just mess about with a couple of programs I've got on the PC.
Cheers - Phil ;D ;D
The constable will charge you with comon assault
I use a dark black-gray as he base, and then shade with true black and highlight with a medium gray in think light washed.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Post%20Apocalyptic/DSCF0135_zpshsf8bieh.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/terry37photos/a/ef66d883-1f66-477b-a7ef-7409fd7cde13/p/302c7b27-ed07-4112-9c62-0a340ab8ece2)
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Misc%201/.highres/DSCF1017_zpszoucfkf7.jpg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/terry37photos/a/c043ee9f-34e8-4471-a885-0bfe7489c4d5/p/51abe488-cb53-4ea2-9d50-1e873b19cd29)
I like hte results,
Terry
Tis nice stuff