Thought I'd give these a try so I bought the starter box. I didn't get the pre order special so no personality figures or 'Glory Halleluiah' but otherwise the same. My preferred rules are 'Pickets Charge' so that's not a big loss but the command figures would have been nice (that will teach me to um and arr on purchase).
The box comes with 24 sprues, each containing 100 infantry, a gun and crew and a mounted officer. This amounts to over 2400 figures ! Add to this a building and fences from Sarrissa, a 'Black Powder' rule book and some d6 and it comes out at quite a bargain for the £90 that I paid (since found it for £71 !) Also supplied is a flag sheet, but I prefer to paint my own flags so will not be using it.
Their suggestion is units of 5 bases but I, like most others it seems, will be using 3 for a standard regiment, 2 for a small and 4 for large. I've not decided how I'm representing the 4/6 gun batteries yet.
They are an in between scale of about 13mm, matching 'ok' with kalistra's range, more of which later.
Painting wise I found them not as quick to paint as you might expect being 10 in a row. The problem is the each one is different so its hard to get in to a flow as I can when painting Pendraken figures by putting the same pose together on a stick and moving along in the same motion. However, the Confederates now take about the same time as the Union. There has been some YouTube posts using Contrast paint but its not for me really.
This is how a standard regiment will look
(https://i.imgur.com/fDQFTwB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dhKxYWn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iQ42X7E.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SaUPdBO.jpg)
I cut the 60mm bases down to 55mm as I thought the look was better without the gaps between the figures on each base and looked more of a cohesive unit.
Now for the downside. The 2nd and 3rd wave. I ordered the Iron Brigade and Zouaves just for some variety. They worked out to be a bit on the expensive side but within the realms of value, just. Also the Cavalry that wasn't, but the offer of all 3 came with casualty markers so....yeah ok, but I won't be buying any more.
There is, however, no way I'm buying anything from wave 3 as they are a total rip off. Kalistra are in most cases, half the price so anything I need will come from them.
I think Warlord missed a trick here. I really like the dense packed look of the infantry and the price of the plastic sprues are very competitive. The Iron Brigade and Zouaves are in resin. I've not had any resin figures before so I'll reserve judgement.
On the announcement of this range I was excited for future releases in other periods but having seen how the follow ups for ACW have been priced, then it is extremely unlikely I will buy any until the ranges are complete and the full cost implication is known.
I came close to buying the starter set, largely due to the thought of getting 2400 figures for somewhere between £70 and £90 depending on where you buy from. Then the reality of painting 2400 figures dawned on me and my enthusiasm waned somewhat. Shortly afterwards Honour games released their LaSalle 2 rules and I decided that if I was going to do a large project Napoleonics in 10mm appealed to me more. So I cancelled the Warlord order an invested in a fairly substantial number of Pendraken Napoleonics and haven't regretted the decision. OK painting the variety of Napoleonic units is significantly more complicated, but variety is the spice of life and I suspect that painting huge numbers of the almost identical Warlord blocks would get boring quite quickly, at least now I can ring the changes more when I get fed up with a particular troop type. Plus the starter set looks very much like a loss leader to hook you into the system and what you are saying about the costs of subsequent waves seems to bear that out.
I should also say well done on your paint job, they look good.
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
The densely packed figures do look very effective when painted this well :)
The figure with his rifle at the port on the end of the rank with the standard and officers seems a strange pose choice and breaks up the tight formation :-\
I got the Wargames Illustrated magazine with the free sprue and painted up some Union. Firstly, I agree, they take longer to paint than you first think. There is plenty of detail to paint, which does take time, but when you put the base down, at normal viewing distances that detail largely disappears, so somebalance between painting detail and doing fast painting to get through so many figs is needed.
Secondly, I find the gap between bases jarring to my eye, your solution to cut down to 55mm looks very effective.
The guy with his rifle stuck out is a troublemaker!
Look great.
Nice stuff
Fantastic looking units and nice thoughts on the pros and cons of this range.
Are the original (phase 1) infantry resin as well?
Looks very impressive - good job.
I like the idea of close mass caste figures - long ago I had some Falcon Miniatures Hussite wagons with the fighting crew cast in a block it was a great way to depict them.
I can also see an opportunity with Fantasy armies to create shambling hordes in a similar manner - I've been looking for something similar I can use for my 'Pits of Hell' fantasy army.
phase one are all plastic as are the expansion standard infantry boxes (£20 for 300 in 3 regiments of 100). A few historical inaccuracies but not so bad I cant get around them.
I agree about the port arms figure on the command strip, he must have misheard the order or something. I did consider cutting him off and replacing with another figure, but decided against the extra work
Don't forget Leon will do 55mm bases if you ask him nicely. But not perhaps this week, He claims he is busy??
Quote from: Orcs on 31 March 2021, 10:25:04 AM
He claims he is busy??
Wonder why, only took me 3 months to move
How do these fit with other 10mm figures, Pendraken's for example?
I'm working on my second test-regiment (Union this time) and I'm still not sure whether to continue down this road or not... I stand a fair chance of winning a starter box ( I hope to convince myself at least...) and that might push me over the edge but otherwise I don't think I'll invest in a new scale this round. Painting time was indeed much higher than I expected too because of the detail.
Pendraken won't work with these; the difference between 10mm and 13mm is just too much. As said by Redstef; Kallistra would be the way to go. If I continue with this project I would definitely replace the artillery and add some new command figures too for some variety.
The figures look good en masse and the casting is pretty crisp but on closer inspection kit and the manual of arms positions are pretty bad... everybody seems to be holding his rifle any way he wants which is totally inaccurate for a unit in line. Marching is a bit of a shambles too with some left foot front, others right foot front. The kit they're wearing and how they wear it also defies belief. You would have thought that a company like WG would do some research before spending all this money on such a project. Then again; how can one possibly come by the right information this day and age! =)
Ah well, let's see if I can get some for free and then decide on how to go from here!
Cheers,
Rob
Oh, by the way Redstef; where are your flags from?
They look the part as do your units. My compliments on those!
Cheers,
Rob
Quote from: Orcs on 31 March 2021, 10:25:04 AM
Don't forget Leon will do 55mm bases if you ask him nicely. But not perhaps this week, He claims he is busy??
when I get fed up with cutting the bases (which is likely to be fairly soon) Leon will definitely be getting a call, can't imagine what is more important than waiting for my order though :D
As Ace of Spades says, the historical accuracy is a bit wayward to say the least, but I can get past that. The advantage of ACW is that you can streamline fairly easy with generic infantry. Not a great deal of cavalry and if you don't like horses no problem, you'll have them dismounted most of the time anyway so don't bother.
I also have Pendraken ACW but only a Divisions worth for Brigade Fire and Fury. I was going to do more but my mate got carried away and done the entire ANV and AoPotomac for Getteysburg, so there's no need.
The flags are hand painted. I really like painting flags and its the bit of the unit I look forward to. They are the tissue that comes with new shirts with a bit of tin foil in the middle so they hold the wave.
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 31 March 2021, 01:31:21 PM
The figures look good en masse and the casting is pretty crisp but on closer inspection kit and the manual of arms positions are pretty bad... everybody seems to be holding his rifle any way he wants which is totally inaccurate for a unit in line. Marching is a bit of a shambles too with some left foot front, others right foot front. The kit they're wearing and how they wear it also defies belief.
From the very little I've read about the ACW, that actually sounds about right. These are not a British Guards regt.. Non-professional soliders, little formal training.
Quote from: John Cook on 31 March 2021, 12:36:51 PM
How do these fit with other 10mm figures, Pendraken's for example?
Norm (of this parish) has some very good photos on his blog. They are much taller than Pendraken, very similiar in height to Kallistra, but much more slender than both.
Thanks Fred, this is the link, comparing with Kallistra and Peter Pig.
LINK
http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2021/01/warlord-epic-acw-painting-and-comparing.html
Cancel - cocked up the post!
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 31 March 2021, 01:31:21 PM
I'm working on my second test-regiment (Union this time) and I'm still not sure whether to continue down this road or not... I stand a fair chance of winning a starter box ( I hope to convince myself at least...) and that might push me over the edge but otherwise I don't think I'll invest in a new scale this round. Painting time was indeed much higher than I expected too because of the detail.
Pendraken won't work with these; the difference between 10mm and 13mm is just too much. As said by Redstef; Kallistra would be the way to go. If I continue with this project I would definitely replace the artillery and add some new command figures too for some variety.
The figures look good en masse and the casting is pretty crisp but on closer inspection kit and the manual of arms positions are pretty bad... everybody seems to be holding his rifle any way he wants which is totally inaccurate for a unit in line. Marching is a bit of a shambles too with some left foot front, others right foot front. The kit they're wearing and how they wear it also defies belief. You would have thought that a company like WG would do some research before spending all this money on such a project. Then again; how can one possibly come by the right information this day and age! =)
Ah well, let's see if I can get some for free and then decide on how to go from here!
Cheers,
Rob
I think in some ways, the point of these may have been lost along the journey, simply because the sculpts are so good, crisp and sharp for their scale. I rather fancy that John Stallard's 'vision' for this kit was more about the 'plastic soldiers' experience many of us got as youths from airfix (he has a soft spot for Airfix 1/76 poly soldiers) and the way that many of us would have just been happy with a blue and grey army and I think this is where the generic feature of the sculpt may come from, as well as the practicality that a 'do all' single sprue, mass produced would cross the economics threshold to allow the project at the price point.
The fact that modern sculpting and process simply produces such an excellent figure, perhaps accidentally undermines that ethos, if indeed that was ever the original idea and instead, we end up with something that we are now seeing as 'serious' rather that the 'toy soldier' aspect. What I am saying is that I question the view that warlord did not research, but rather due to a well engineered product has delivered something different than intended. I may be totally wrong of course (again!) :-)
I'm not sure whether Warlord got it wrong or just underestimated the potential for this type of sculpt. I see no reason why a specific Union sprue couldn't have been made (kepi/backpack), Artillery on a separate sprue as well as command. If its a financial decision, why not just list them as 'Infantry' and save on the cost of separate box prints for union and confederate when the contents are exactly the same, sell artillery separate and individual sprues of command (not the 5 strips for £12 !!!).
I have seen the reason for the high price of the follow up ranges is because they expect to sell less so the production cost is reflected. I don't accept this, as other manufacturers do not do this. The price for Pendraken Iron brigade is not more than the rest of the range and the same reduction in sales of this pack applies. I feel that the adoption of a unique scale is to ensure you only buy from them (forgot to research Kalistra). That in itself to me is not a problem as I personally prefer to get the entire project from the same manufacturer as I like the continuity. The problem for me is the almost contempt for the punter in their pricing
I have no idea, I do not have an insight to WG, nor am I a fan boy or a defender of them, but do think that their are some dynamics at work that are not profiteering related. Firstly the difference in cost between one sprue style and two sprue styles must be huge, especially when trying to hammer down an entry price point to the opening game. As for sales numbers, my understanding is that they underestimated opening demand and had to have more manufactured.
the second and third wave are being done in their resin, again my understanding is that they are limited to Spain for this material and that costs post Brexit to get this material here have gone up. I note that Plastic Soldier Company, who use the same material for their 15mm ancients range, around a month ago, put their prices up from £35 a box to £40 and I have come to know them as being a pretty stable company on price.
The sculpting cost for phase 1 (single sprue) was cheaper than the sculpting for multi part phase two / three and volume would certainly not be there, otherwise for a mass market, surely hard plastic would have ultimately been the cheaper product. So I just think there is more going on here than the straight assumption that WG are pulling a fast one at our expense.
Though the public based wargame media seems to almost exclusively having an alternative view to that, I think we have to accept for the sake of balance, that the starter game would have by nature attracted a high volume of customers who are cautious about spend, it therefore should not be a surprise that the same group by inclination, see the follow up phases as being something hard to swallow.
I do know that thanks to WG, Victrix and Plastic Soldier Company, who are each dabbling in the smaller scales, that wargame shows are about to become a lot more scale diverse and more interesting for that.
That final point is a massive plus in itself, and most likely reflects the way historical gamers collect armies, and probably fantasy gamers as well, what with 15mm, 10mm and 6mm fantasy manufacturers out there. May be that will be the next big thing - fantasy plastic figures. In fact hasn't one company started to rerelease GW 10mm in plastic or resin?
Quote from: Leman on 01 April 2021, 07:17:48 AM
In fact hasn't one company started to rerelease GW 10mm in plastic or resin?
Eh? Well that'll be a first, seeing how fanatical GW are about protecting 'their' IP.
Thought I'd seen something that looked like them. Not being a fantasy gamer I'm not really up to speed on all that.
There will always be certain amount of ignorance to the production costs of a manufacturer by the paying public. I have read accounts from employees of GW, or so they say, claiming that the resin production actually costs less than the plastic, but as we know, anecdotes are not data.
It seems to me that because of the high demand for the starter sets, even with a drop off in interest, future releases will still be in demand. With the current price structure of the follow up phases this will severely be reduced even putting some off from even starting. One sold at £30 is better than none sold at £40.
I'm not having a go at WG, I buy from their other ranges and consider them good value. They are playing a massive role in introducing gamers from sci-fi/fantasy backgrounds to historical games which can only be good for us all. It just seems to me they have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory on this particular range
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 31 March 2021, 01:31:21 PM
Pendraken won't work with these; the difference between 10mm and 13mm is just too much. As said by Redstef; Kallistra would be the way to go. If I continue with this project I would definitely replace the artillery and add some new command figures too for some variety.
Cheers,
Rob
Thanks for that. For that reason, and all the other issues mentioned elsewhere, I think these are a non-starter, for me anyway. They do look good though.
Quote from: Leman on 01 April 2021, 07:46:51 AM
Thought I'd seen something that looked like them. Not being a fantasy gamer I'm not really up to speed on all that.
There are certainly some new companies producing figures that fit with the GW fluff, I wouldn't;t call them copies of WM figures - and I'm certain the manufacturers won't for obvious reasons.
But there are certainly some good interesting new 10mm fantasy ranges out there, several taking advantage of 3D printing.
Quote from: Raider4 on 31 March 2021, 03:34:17 PM
From the very little I've read about the ACW, that actually sounds about right. These are not a British Guards regt.. Non-professional soliders, little formal training.
Not sure about that. In between battles, which comprised most of their time, and if the memoires etc., are anything to go by, soldiers spent most of their time drilling and training generally. They might not have looked so smart, but I think most regiments, on both sides, had a lot of formal training. On route, when marching 'at ease', they probably carried their weapons as they chose, but on the battlefield a regiment would have been uniform in this respect, typicaly with muskets at the right shoulder.
Quote from: Redstef on 31 March 2021, 02:52:23 PM
The flags are hand painted. I really like painting flags and its the bit of the unit I look forward to. They are the tissue that comes with new shirts with a bit of tin foil in the middle so they hold the wave.
They look very good too. Regardless of whether I buy or hand paint my flags, I keep them as masters, scan them and print copies. There is nothing less attractive, in my view, that a flag that looks like a fence panel on a pole. I fix mine to the staff with PVA glue which makes them slightly damp and then drape them before they dry. They dry hard and retain whatever wave you have given them.
Speaking of Warlord, did anyone see their April fools? ;D
Quote from: Redstef on 31 March 2021, 02:52:23 PM
The flags are hand painted. I really like painting flags and its the bit of the unit I look forward to. They are the tissue that comes with new shirts with a bit of tin foil in the middle so they hold the wave.
That's a nice tip. I try and handpaint all my flags, mostly just been using graph paper and paint then pva and a bit of a wrinkle, but doesn't always come out so well. My skill is no where near your level so the flags don't often look all that well, but enjoy the challenge of painting them for improving my detail skills.
Do you form them first then paint them, or paint them flat then wrinkle them?
I paint them first in the base colours, then fold on the pole and allow the PVA to dry (the halves slip if you don't). Then put the wave in to taste or more likely the restriction of the surrounding figures and add the highlights where appropriate.
Quote from: Redstef on 01 April 2021, 05:12:58 PM
I paint them first in the base colours, then fold on the pole and allow the PVA to dry (the halves slip if you don't). Then put the wave in to taste or more likely the restriction of the surrounding figures and add the highlights where appropriate.
Thanks for the tip
Quote from: John Cook on 01 April 2021, 11:28:29 AM
Not sure about that. In between battles, which comprised most of their time, and if the memoires etc., are anything to go by, soldiers spent most of their time drilling and training generally. They might not have looked so smart, but I think most regiments, on both sides, had a lot of formal training. On route, when marching 'at ease', they probably carried their weapons as they chose, but on the battlefield a regiment would have been uniform in this respect, typicaly with muskets at the right shoulder.
You're absolutely right John. The troops in the ACW were relatively well drilled but maybe not so disciplined. Equipment was lacking in some cases but what they had would be worn in a prescribed fashion. Cartridgebox on the right hip, percussion cap pouch right front. These positions were clear and mandatory; if you would change these around you would not be able to reload or fire a musket in line. Same goes for the bayonet on the left hip.
Haversack/breadbag and canteen go on the left rear so they don't interfere with your cartridgebox. There is a reason for all this.
As you also stated they were pretty good; drill would be strict and the manual of arms well imprinted. In a line (especially in a double line with muskets and bayonets protruding through the front rank) it is of great importance that everybody moves and acts the same.
The liberties Warlord have taken are just silly and mainly based on money I fear. They've always been willing to sacrifice authenticity for money and this product sadly seems to be no different. The way they come up with the prices for their products is a joke too. They sell you a limber in 12mm for 12,- while you can get two at Kallistra voor 6,-! Plus they look better... Kallistra command sets cost 6,- and give you 6 sets of foot command plus several mounted commanders; WG sells you 5 foot command strips for 12,- It does become a selffulfilling prophecy though; for that price you won't sell many so they have to be more expensive because you don't expect to sell a lot of them so better make them more expensive so you..etc.etc. The Black Powder rules don't really help either as you dont need limbers for your guns for example. It's all a bit Games Workshop; you write the rules, tell people how many of a certain model they can deploy and then make those items extra expensive because you can only sell so few... good marketing trick I'll give you that!
Still; these little guys look good in the field as long as you don't come to close to notice all their faults or the fact that their 1st Sergeants were sacked during the first week of enlistment. The fact that they are opening up small scale wargaming to a whole new generation on the other hand is absolutely a benefit and something in itself worth supporting.
Cheers,
Rob
Quote from: Redstef on 31 March 2021, 02:52:23 PM
The flags are hand painted. I really like painting flags and its the bit of the unit I look forward to. They are the tissue that comes with new shirts with a bit of tin foil in the middle so they hold the wave.
My compliments; they really look beautiful on these models!
Cheers,
Rob
Seconded :-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Lovely painting work
Regards close order drill, I spent a few years as an ACW reenactor and whilst I don't claim this to be a factual representation of actual combat / the period etc we did use a period arms manual for drill so a couple of possible pertinent points.
We only did maybe 12 events a year but very quickly you (I) was drilled into the manual of arms etc. In close order not shifting your rifle correctly had a significant impact on line dressing not to mention possibly lumping someone round the head or body with a large wood and metal object.
We very rarely fixed bayonets for drill or action mostly due to the risk involved in incorrect arms movements (as well as the chance someone might get carried away in close combat)
Also as previously stated if you didn't have cartridge box and percussion cap holder in the prescribed position it would be very difficult and disruptive to your adjacent file to try and reload
Yes, I did see the Warlord April fool - can't wait for 2077 to roll around.
One of the good things about the epic scale approach is the way in which actual close order is depicted. All too often do we see wargamers mounting their figures in an open order style when basing their horse & musket era miniatures when, imo, they should be basing them closer together.
Quote from: Westmarcher on 07 April 2021, 11:53:52 AM
One of the good things about the epic scale approach is the way in which actual close order is depicted. All too often do we see wargamers mounting their figures in an open order style when basing their horse & musket era miniatures when, imo, they should be basing them closer together.
Thats the main reason why I like these figures and why I bought the starter set. I really like the mass look you get with 20 models per base in 13.5mm scale figures. It has a very unique look that's appealing to me.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Quote from: Westmarcher on 07 April 2021, 11:53:52 AM
One of the good things about the epic scale approach is the way in which actual close order is depicted. All too often do we see wargamers mounting their figures in an open order style when basing their horse & musket era miniatures when, imo, they should be basing them closer together.
I totally agree! Do clip a few mm's of the edges of the Epic bases though so that the gaps are eliminated. Makes it all look so much better. As soon as Pendraken comes up with a more practical solution of posting pictures I'll post some of what I've done up till now.
Cheers,
Rob
Well, give Old Glory and Baccus their due. Their respective 10mm and 6mm formed infantry are made in joined at the elbow strips. These are my 10mm OG Prussian line, with Pendraken grenadiers based four abreast to give the same impression.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50988780887_3d45733870.jpg)
Good job on those.
It was only after reading the text I saw that the Grenadiers had a four figure frontage and were not the same as the others.
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 08 April 2021, 06:54:33 AM
I totally agree! Do clip a few mm's of the edges of the Epic bases though so that the gaps are eliminated. Makes it all look so much better. As soon as Pendraken comes up with a more practical solution of posting pictures I'll post some of what I've done up till now.
Cheers,
Rob
If I can master imgur, anybody can.
TBH John I feel the same about Flickr which I have finally managed to get my head round, even though different fora have different ways of posting the photo to them.
Quote from: John Cook on 08 April 2021, 10:55:23 AM
If I can master imgur, anybody can.
It's not that I can't; I find it pointless, it's an extra effort which, in my opinion, is unnescessary. I don't store any of my pictures in some cloud; I just have them on my pc and in almost every other medium I can simply copy-paste my pictures; I don't know why we can't have the same simple system on this forum. Time for an update maybe after the Great Trek! ;)
Cheers,
Rob
I would suggest that it is only pointless if you don't think you have anything worth sharing for the benefit of others on the forum. To quote the old adage: a picture is worth a thousand words. It is a bit of an effort setting things up to start with, but once done relatively little effort to use. I use more time reading my posts and correcting typing errors and poor phrasing prior to posting. Before I was able to post pictures I found it very frustrating trying to describe what I was doing.
A couple of ideas I've had for my Gettysburg project:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51110935179_ecd565ec82.jpg)
Mostly I have been thinking about the artillery. Now that is a nice little model, although not 100% accurate. It is after all a toy and not a museum exhibit. However, it is quite obviously a 12lb howitzer, an odd choice for the one and only ACW artillery piece in this range. So, for those who like something a little more varied a few ideas:
1. Cut the gun barrel off from the breach bulge. Now cut off half of the remaining tube between the breach cut and the beginning of the muzzle. Glue and pin the muzzle section back to the breach and this gives a passable 6lb smoothbore.
2. Cut just the muzzle off. Paint the remainder black for a passable 20pdr Parrott.
3. Use Kallistra for 12lb Napoleon, 3" Rifle and 10pdr Parrott. All three barrels come in a Kallistra artillery pack.
4. For the sake of completeness base all guns on Kallistra size bases. The ones supplied by Warlord have an odd and unnecessary depth.
5. To the left of the gun is a Confederate unit, the command of which is by Kallistra. I did this by removing 6 figures from the middle of a warlord strip and replacing with drummer, standard bearer, officer and two marching figures. As Kallistra are individual figures only 5 will fit in the space vacated by the 6 Warlord figures.
6. What happened to the 6 figures? I sliced them up into individuals, removed the lugs on figure strips and glued the strip and extra figure so that the figures now fit right across the base. In future I will do this with the extra command strips, pushing the Warlord figures to the edge and using 6 Kallistra figures. The gap in a full unit bothers some people. This solves the problem and also reduces waste when creating additional command bases (I only want three bases to a standard unit as I don't own a converted stable block).
7. Some other ideas - use spare guns and figures for wrecks and casualties; Kallistra shooting figures for skirmishers; you can get four Kallistra limbers for less than the price of a single Warlord one. Warlord may have to rethink their price points on the follow up additions to this range, otherwise all they will do is push people Kallistra's way or make people think seriously about 10mm and 6mm for a real epic experience (obviously preaching to the converted on this forum).
Good ideas. I have been reluctant to cut the artillery as the barrel looks quite chunky, but I have enough to at least have a dabble.
A good Epic v. Kallistra comparison here, particularly at 1:45 :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4Iu2qEfTw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp4Iu2qEfTw)
Quote from: Leman on 12 April 2021, 09:22:29 AM
I would suggest that it is only pointless if you don't think you have anything worth sharing for the benefit of others on the forum. To quote the old adage: a picture is worth a thousand words. It is a bit of an effort setting things up to start with, but once done relatively little effort to use. I use more time reading my posts and correcting typing errors and poor phrasing prior to posting. Before I was able to post pictures I found it very frustrating trying to describe what I was doing.
True enough but is not the principal point of Imgur, Flikr, Cloud storage etc that they are a back-up for data unless, of course, losing it isn't an issue. Am I 'old fashioned' in that I also back-up unique data to an external hard disk; a habit I got into years ago before other storage mediums existed? There is no effort, once you've mastered how to use them - that is the only relatively hard part and, as far as posting to forums is concerned generally, none that I use allows members to post their pictures directly. I'm not sure but is it not the issue of space that precludes it?
It is possible to post pictures from your hard drive but only if they are 128k or less in size. I use the GIMP to reduce the size if I want to use that option.
Storing anything that way takes storage space, which may not be as expensive as it once was but it is still a cost to the business.
Posting a link to an image on Imgur, Flikr, Image Shack or the like not only saves the business the cost of renting and maintaining more storage space than necessary but also allows you to share your images with friends, family or even the whole world.
The specifics may vary but in essence each site requires the same process - find the url, copy the url, paste the url. The differences tend to be in how you wrap the html, bbcode or whatever tags around the url to make it visible. The more automated the method the better IMHO but again there's a cost to better software in most instances.
Quote from: Leman on 12 April 2021, 10:03:43 AM
A couple of ideas I've had for my Gettysburg project:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51110935179_ecd565ec82.jpg)
Mostly I have been thinking about the artillery. Now that is a nice little model, although not 100% accurate. It is after all a toy and not a museum exhibit. However, it is quite obviously a 12lb howitzer, an odd choice for the one and only ACW artillery piece in this range. So, for those who like something a little more varied a few ideas:
1. Cut the gun barrel off from the breach bulge. Now cut off half of the remaining tube between the breach cut and the beginning of the muzzle. Glue and pin the muzzle section back to the breach and this gives a passable 6lb smoothbore.
2. Cut just the muzzle off. Paint the remainder black for a passable 20pdr Parrott.
3. Use Kallistra for 12lb Napoleon, 3" Rifle and 10pdr Parrott. All three barrels come in a Kallistra artillery pack.
4. For the sake of completeness base all guns on Kallistra size bases. The ones supplied by Warlord have an odd and unnecessary depth.
5. To the left of the gun is a Confederate unit, the command of which is by Kallistra. I did this by removing 6 figures from the middle of a warlord strip and replacing with drummer, standard bearer, officer and two marching figures. As Kallistra are individual figures only 5 will fit in the space vacated by the 6 Warlord figures.
6. What happened to the 6 figures? I sliced them up into individuals, removed the lugs on figure strips and glued the strip and extra figure so that the figures now fit right across the base. In future I will do this with the extra command strips, pushing the Warlord figures to the edge and using 6 Kallistra figures. The gap in a full unit bothers some people. This solves the problem and also reduces waste when creating additional command bases (I only want three bases to a standard unit as I don't own a converted stable block).
7. Some other ideas - use spare guns and figures for wrecks and casualties; Kallistra shooting figures for skirmishers; you can get four Kallistra limbers for less than the price of a single Warlord one. Warlord may have to rethink their price points on the follow up additions to this range, otherwise all they will do is push people Kallistra's way or make people think seriously about 10mm and 6mm for a real epic experience (obviously preaching to the converted on this forum).
I have an order of Kallistra coming in as well; command sets, limbers skirmishers and guns.
I find the WL guns awkward in different areas; not just the spokes. The barrels also have something 'Napoleonic' about them. The sections (chamber/barrel/muzzle) are not very ACW. A 12 pdr Napoleon has a smooth outer surface and so do most others except for the breech loaders that usually have re-inforced chambers. I plan to replace my artillery completely with Kallistra guns and crews. The plastic ones will be saved and perhaps used to portray 'off-table' artillery with some adaptations to the barrels.
There are also some strange details about some of these new (and very expensive) WL figures. Have you noticed how the saddles of the riderless horses for the dismounted cavalry all have heavy blanketrolls on the saddle? Not behind the rider but in his place, a bit like the valises on artillery horses... I wonder what the sculptor was thinking...
Ah well; the bulk of the infantry will do and the rest will be outsourced!
Cheers,
Rob
You are quite right, the 12lb "napoleon" gun howitzer does have a smooth profile. What Warlord have gone for is the 12lb howitzer of 1840s vintage. Why they went for that and not the much more common 12lb gun howitzer is anybody's guess.
Here's my EPIC status.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CIYvr4ndNjU/YHwcCMtWa_I/AAAAAAAAKFs/b1Drq0HXRtUFH7jo7lvqTUROVjfp2JyTgCLcBGAsYHQ/s1024/P1010324.JPG)
http://jim-duncan.blogspot.com/2021/04/warlord-games-epic-acw-work-in-progress.html
Looking damn fine, Jim. :-bd
Cheers - Phil. :)
Indeed those Kallistra figures really make the Epic range work, although what effect that will have on the longevity of Warlord's venture into smaller scale gaming is uncertain at present. I notice in their latest briefing they are offering starter armies again (infantry,guns,mounted officers) with free casualties this time.
Quote from: Leman on 18 April 2021, 04:49:56 PM
Indeed those Kallistra figures really make the Epic range work, although what effect that will have on the longevity of Warlord's venture into smaller scale gaming is uncertain at present. I notice in their latest briefing they are offering starter armies again (infantry,guns,mounted officers) with free casualties this time.
If the Warlord effort does expire then I won't be too bothered. I already have enough for 34 infantry regiments and guns and as many cavalry I would ever need using Kallistra figures. It would be a shame for anyone else late to the party though.
http://jim-duncan.blogspot.com/2021/04/warlord-games-epic-acw-little-fix.html
Remember the little problem I mentioned earlier?
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4GE3COh3DCM/YHyaP_zq1iI/AAAAAAAAKGk/HawBEL71WaQEddgk70UGphtHu9oqHKNrQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1024/P1010335.JPG)
Well, I fixed it.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_SRHggU800U/YHyandCc2oI/AAAAAAAAKGw/2ChaQ2eR2LcPKaxEmfVKgK-oSlqybPstACLcBGAsYHQ/s1024/P1010336.JPG)
http://jim-duncan.blogspot.com/2021/04/warlord-games-epic-acw-little-fix.html
Nicely done Jim. I went for the simple expedient of not filling his paricular space but doing the back rank of his base and all other bases in the unit. I also gave him sergeant stripes to explain his unusual position.
I struggle to get the point of this range of uniquely sized figures with, judging from posts her and elsewhere, several accuracy issues and high prices for follow-on sets. I can see, though, that once committed to this range, Warlord probably think the have the customer by the short hairs.
What is their advantage over 10mm figures, Pendraken's in particular?
Good on Pendraken though, for allowing a competitor to receive significant exposure.
A cunning plan Jim, well executed ;) :)
Nice work, Jim. Like the Kallistra stuff and comparison.
John, I don't get football, but so what.
Quote from: John Cook on 19 April 2021, 08:38:37 AM
Good on Pendraken though, for allowing a competitor to receive significant exposure.
The other companies involved in this are:
Warlord Games - they've sold an awful lot of these figures so far both to existing collectors and newbies. They will get continuing sales as some collectors like to keep their collections 'pure'.
Kallistra - they will continue to sell their own stuff no problem with additional sales from collectors like me who use compatible figures from other manufacturers to bolster their collections. Kallistra and Pendraken collaborate quite a lot behind the scenes already so good for both.
Pendraken - will pick up some sales of ACW as interest in the period is renewed/re-inforced possibly amongst the existing 10 mil 'fanatics'.
Quote from: Leman on 19 April 2021, 12:28:29 PM
John, I don't get football, but so what.
The "so what" is "what is their advantage over 10mm figures, Pendraken's in particular?" I was hoping somebody could explain.
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 19 April 2021, 03:00:06 PM
The other companies involved in this are:
Warlord Games - they've sold an awful lot of these figures so far both to existing collectors and newbies. They will get continuing sales as some collectors like to keep their collections 'pure'.
Kallistra - they will continue to sell their own stuff no problem with additional sales from collectors like me who use compatible figures from other manufacturers to bolster their collections. Kallistra and Pendraken collaborate quite a lot behind the scenes already so good for both.
Pendraken - will pick up some sales of ACW as interest in the period is renewed/re-inforced possibly amongst the existing 10 mil 'fanatics'.
Thanks for the answer. Are not Pendraken's 10mm incompatible with these and Kalistra's stuff? Perhaps you can also help Leman with soccer.
Pendraken are 10mm, theoretically. I've never accurately measured them but they are smaller than Kallistra figures.
Kallistra are 12mm. There are comparison pictures available if you 'google' around.
Warlord Games EPIC are 13.5 mm foot to eye so are around 15mm.
Most 15mm manufacturers figures are a wee bit bigger.
The advantage of the Warlord EPIC ACW is that you get very good value for your buck for their initial offering which was for an awful lot of infantry. They are less attractive for their Wave 2 and Wave 3 offerings hence the search around other manufacturers.
Now, football.
I have medals for football from Junior School days. Not for High School days as football was banned, rugby or cricket was your only option. As an adult I played for the departments intra-mural 11-a side football team until I was 49 years old when repeated injuries took me out. I also played indoor 5-a side being a competent shot stopper.
So, football, soccer to many, what would you like to know?
Not a lot really. I find it really rather boring and unfathomable as 20 men run around on a lawn in no particular way kicking a ball about which sometimes goes into a net. Apparently you can become far wealthier than a heart surgeon doing this.
On the grittier question I like joined together figures which produce close order blocks. All joined together they are quicker and easier to paint than individual figures. I find modern plastic figures take paint more readily than metal figures.That's what I get, but not everyone will, or want to.
Quote from: Leman on 19 April 2021, 06:11:08 PM
Not a lot really. I find it really rather boring and unfathomable as 20 men run around on a lawn in no particular way kicking a ball about which sometimes goes into a net. Apparently you can become far wealthier than a heart surgeon doing this.
At a very basic level you can grab a bunch of guys, split into two teams, play some football. You can do that almost anywhere on the planet.
Quote from: Leman on 19 April 2021, 06:11:08 PM
On the grittier question I like joined together figures which produce close order blocks. All joined together they are quicker and easier to paint than individual figures. I find modern plastic figures take paint more readily than metal figures.That's what I get, but not everyone will, or want to.
I like the figures strips too as well as my best mate. We both liked Warmaster when it first came out and the figures were in strips then too.
Thanks Jim that is pretty much my understanding. The initial release, then, is a bait in an attempt to hook people on their system, subsequent issues of which will be much more expensive.
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 19 April 2021, 03:00:06 PM
Pendraken - will pick up some sales of ACW as interest in the period is renewed/re-inforced possibly amongst the existing 10 mil 'fanatics'.
Well they benefitted from me, as I initially ordered the Warlord starter set, but started to get cold feet due to the thought of the painting exercise involved, then along came the LaSalle 2 rules and being ever fickle I decided to go Napoleonics and cancelled my order. However, the thought of going 10mm or thereabouts has been seeded and where else to go but Pendraken. So even though I bought a reasonable number of Napoleonics the painting is still more manageable.
I have been longing to get my 15mm Italian Wars figures up and running but I am a slow painter owing to my shakey hands. Then I discovered the WoFun Games' Renaissance range in 18mm and 28mm. Bought a couple of 18mm armies which use back and front illustrations by Peter Dennis. Not to everyone's taste but it does mean I can put the units straight out of the box onto the table and play. The units generally cover the Agnadello to Pavia period, but there are both early and later reiters in there, so maybe they are intending to expand into the later C16th. They also do the Peninsula War in 28mm and 18mm using Peter Dennis illustrations as well as other periods from Ancients through to the ACW, with others up to WWII planned. A very interesting collaboration between UK and Romania.
I've got a couple of the Peter Dennis "paperboys" books - boy is it tedious cutting out those figures :(
Which is why I went for the WoFun plexiglass version. You get what you pay for.
Quote from: John Cook on 20 April 2021, 01:49:12 AM
Thanks Jim that is pretty much my understanding. The initial release, then, is a bait in an attempt to hook people on their system, subsequent issues of which will be much more expensive.
Things are moving at pace thanks to my quick painting chum.
We have about 9 regiments of EPIC ACW infantry painted and based as well appropriate numbers of commanders and artillery. Many more in the pipeline.
We also have 4 regiments of Kallistra mounted, dismounted, plus horse-holders cavalry (3 painted and based as I type), some limbers and additional command foot and mounted figures for a grand total of sixty odd quid. Happy with that price. This is more than enough cavalry for any period scenarios we might play.
So, am not expecting to be spending any more dosh on Warlord Games EPIC ACW figures unless they re-assess their pricing structure.
I must get the camera out soon and photo document the forces before getting some gaming time.
Jim
Quote from: Leman on 09 May 2021, 09:30:06 AM
Then I discovered the WoFun Games' Renaissance range in 18mm and 28mm.
How well do they work at 18mm? Because the Dennis originals in the Helion books are 25-28. And could, of course, be printer scaled down to 10mm
I guess side view e.g. flank attacks will look odd but then a 1:1 wargame is going to be mainly front/rear view anyway.
I keep looking at WoFun on their FB ads. Would like to see them for real before splashing out euros.
They also have another range which is side view instead of front and rear like the Dennis ones, so they are just a modern form of Flats and a pretty instant army.
Exactly.
Just had a look at the WO Fun plexiglass stuff. They look quite interesting, are they already pre-cut
Beautiful artist, fantastic details... but... paper soldiers do nothing for me.
The WoFun figures look really good, but are a bit large scale (even at 18mm) for my available space. They also feel quite expensive for the amount that you get, you can buy a lot of 10mm metals for that amount of money, even if you do have to paint them yourself.
I am well behind the times, never heard of Warlord Epic 12mm nor Wofun. Plexiglass figures????? In 18mm and 28mm. Erm, whatever next?
I have some 1970s Military Modelling magazines with German metal flats in, not sure of the scale.
History repeating itself.....
Well, as I said from the word go, they are not for everybody. They work for me because I am being pragmatic. I have tons of metal and plastic unpainted and I am now 68. Some of that unpainted stuff I have had since the mid-80s, so for me this is a way of being able to get two attractive armies on table that will actually look better than I can paint, so at least I can start playing immediately a period I am interested in before my enthusiasm wanes as a result of painting becoming a back aching chore.
Quote from: Leman on 10 May 2021, 07:30:14 AM
I have tons of metal and plastic unpainted and I am now 68.
I can relate although I am 2 years younger and probably a few Kg behind.
As you have seen WoFun for real , do you think they work better in 18 than 28 ? I'm wondering if the "flat" becomes less noticeable as the scale goes down.
I have a boxed Dark Age slog game (PSC Battle Ravens) where the Dennis figures were put on card but there they are clearly paper figures on a bit of flat card.
{saved me painting 400 shield wall minis though!}
The WoFun figures do look good, and yes they are modern flats, but they are coloured in, and cut out. Assembly is just put them on the bases.
I have seen a video where the player painted the edges, this seemed quick and improved the look further.