Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => Ancients to Renaissance (3000BC - 1680) => Topic started by: Glorfindel on 21 February 2021, 11:03:17 AM

Title: War of the Roses: Liege lords
Post by: Glorfindel on 21 February 2021, 11:03:17 AM
I'm planning a new War of the Roses project and would like, if possible, to try and make sure I have the right nobles
fighting on the right side !   I've seen the 'livery database' which is really helpful for this:

https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html (https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2018/09/war-of-roses-livery-colours-database.html)


My research so far did make me wonder how good our information is on the nobility of the time, specifically:

   a.   Do we have a good understanding of the 'feudal pyramid' as far as it applies to this time period ?   I
   understand that feudalism was in decline but am trying to confirm how much we know about the lines of allegiance
   (from lesser to higher noble and so on up to the King);

   b.   Following on from this, and probably much more relevant to a wargame army, I understand we have
   some idea of the highest levels of command during most WOTR set piece battles (ie. the commanders of each of
   the three 'battles' that would have been formed).   However, do we know which lesser nobles were part of which
   'battle' ?

I'm aware that there are wide gaps in our knowledge of warfare in this period but any pointers in the right direction
(web sites or books) would be much appreciated !


Many thanks,    Phil
Title: Re: War of the Roses: Liege lords
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 21 February 2021, 11:18:23 AM
Not my period but I would suggest that reasearch oin the tax rolls would get you the information. You are quite correct that the feudal system was on the point of colapse which was caused by the plauge - 25% of the population died, so no agricultural labour or not enough, leading to rich peasants.
Title: Re: War of the Roses: Liege lords
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 21 February 2021, 11:58:50 AM
On a pure historic note.

I understand the Feudal Pyramid as taught to me at school didn't last very long at all.
The pyramid has no room for merchants, craftsmen, or trade.
No mention of the monastics and ecclesiastics either.
And it's difficult to run a crusade on nothing but a turnip surplus.

So, yes, it would have been there and applied to peasants and landholders for several centuries.
But no, it didn't dominate the nation's economy through to reformation, as the old schoolbooks would have us believe.