The history of the Crusades has intrigued me since... no idea... long!
Most figures have been painted in the wll known: White shield with red cross (Templars), white shield with black cross (Teutonic order) and black shield with white cross (Hospitaller order). Last weel I've started with some different tunics, as in not white or black. For the Seljuks and Fatamids... whole different game. More colours and variety. Will start to paint some more in different colours, Saracens and Crusaders. work in progress. Some still need a wash etc. And I've already received some good feedback on how to better my painting skills and make more use of shadow so the colours en facial expressions stand out better.
(https://i.imgur.com/4VbAQh8l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yD9Jc8Ql.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xoxRRa3l.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4w4JCiLl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/moIvYLAl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TnntBs4l.jpg)
Good start
Good stuff! If you want to add a mix to the"uniformed" knights I quite enjoyed doing a unit of Jerusalem knights in turquoise and yellow. Can go with a motley array of colours for mixed European Knights too.
The Islamic forces are fun with a great array of colours and styles.
They look really good
A good start :)
In the fourth picture, a couple of the dismounted Teutonic order look to have Ts rather than crosses on their shields (second & third from left, front rank of Teutonic order)
As many here can attest the camera reveals much the eye misses ;)
Quote from: paulr on 06 February 2021, 08:42:11 PM
In the fourth picture, a couple of the dismounted Teutonic order look to have Ts rather than crosses on their shields (second & third from left, front rank of Teutonic order)
As many here can attest the camera reveals much the eye misses ;)
Authentic then!
Very nice work Roel 8).
Bear in mind that troops like the royal mamluks would have been uniformed.
A great start.
Very nice work, Roel. 8)
Cheers - Phil :)
Impressive
Of course how long before the political correctness brigade stop us referring to the Crusades, or even stop us having models of the crusades? Just incase we offend someone on the other side.
The bloke on the underground station that referred to the anniversary of the defence of Rourkes Drift, got pulled up.
Was that because it's cultural appropriation if you celebrate Rorke's Drift and aren't Welsh? :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 07 February 2021, 09:40:46 PM
Was that because it's cultural appropriation if you celebrate Rorke's Drift and aren't Welsh? :)
Yeah, hmmm. I love
Zulu as a film, but it's only slightly less fictional than
Braveheart. South Wales Borderers? Try 2nd Warwickshire instead. Only about a third of all the troops there were Welsh. And none of them sang
Men of Harlech.
Quote from: Orcs on 07 February 2021, 09:35:02 PM
Of course how long before the political correctness brigade stop us referring to the Crusades, or even stop us having models of the crusades? Just incase we offend someone on the other side.
The bloke on the underground station that referred to the anniversary of the defence of Rourkes Drift, got pulled up.
Just one thing to do... just as we all stocked TP due to corona as we did not know what was going to happen we now better also stock on figures concerning the Crusades. And I'll be damned if I'm going to call that period anything else :D
Quote from: Roel on 07 February 2021, 10:13:41 PM
Just one thing to do... just as we all stocked TP due to corona as we did not know what was going to happen we now better also stock on figures concerning the Crusades. And I'll be damned if I'm going to call that period anything else :D
Well Said. I am not politically correct at all. :)
Quote from: Orcs on 07 February 2021, 10:30:20 PM
Well Said. I am not politically correct at all. :)
As a serious question, has anybody ever suggested an alternative? I have never heard of one but the term 'crusade' might be used a bit loosely; did not Eisenhower put
Crusade in Europe on his memoirs?
Quote from: hammurabi70 on 07 February 2021, 11:10:05 PM
As a serious question, has anybody ever suggested an alternative? I have never heard of one but the term 'crusade' might be used a bit loosely; did not Eisenhower put Crusade in Europe on his memoirs?
Certainly my perception has been less a case of "renaming the crusades" and more a case of "crusade" being seen as a negative thing. If you say someone is on a crusade against something it usually has connotations of being futile, excessive and possibly unreasonably aggressive.
The narrative is more in how "nasty and evil" the crusades were rather than any PC attempt to rename them. Feeding into the"European Imperialist Swine" idea (never minding the Islamic Imperialist Expansion that triggered them). A lot of that also comes from some modern rhetoric amongst more right wing elements, particularly in America, misconstruing the history to their own ends, thus turning their left wing opponents further against the historical realities.
Of course even the word Crusades is a later invention, not used by the original participants.
Quote from: mmcv on 07 February 2021, 11:51:21 PM
Certainly my perception has been less a case of "renaming the crusades" and more a case of "crusade" being seen as a negative thing. If you say someone is on a crusade against something it usually has connotations of being futile, excessive and possibly unreasonably aggressive.
The narrative is more in how "nasty and evil" the crusades were rather than any PC attempt to rename them. Feeding into the"European Imperialist Swine" idea (never minding the Islamic Imperialist Expansion that triggered them). A lot of that also comes from some modern rhetoric amongst more right wing elements, particularly in America, misconstruing the history to their own ends, thus turning their left wing opponents further against the historical realities.
Of course even the word Crusades is a later invention, not used by the original participants.
I think I'm willing to follow Runciman's verdict on the whole dam' business.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 08 February 2021, 02:11:17 AM
I think I'm willing to follow Runciman's verdict on the whole dam' business.
Good storytelling but bad history? ;)
I enjoy the more nuanced view of them that modern scholars give, when it's less biased. I guess I'm just not much of a romantic.
Quote from: mmcv on 08 February 2021, 08:51:45 AM
Good storytelling but bad history? ;)
I enjoy the more nuanced view of them that modern scholars give, when it's less biased. I guess I'm just not much of a romantic.
Agreed. :-bd
In the modern globalising world I appreciate we need a wider sensitivity but one frequently has a view that this seems to be a one-way street.
I wonder how many modern scholars with their devotion to theory have read a quarter of the original sources that Sir Stephen did, even in translation.
Well whatever the current opinion and/or concensus -> I ordered many many Crusader and Saracen figures and hope they will get here soon 😎 Playing Total War make my eyes go X_X
Quote from: FierceKitty on 08 February 2021, 04:52:06 PM
I wonder how many modern scholars with their devotion to theory have read a quarter of the original sources that Sir Stephen did, even in translation.
As a medieval historian, I can positively assert that modern scholars of the crusades do a lot of work on the subject, focusing almost entirely on primary sources in medieval Latin. I was lucky enough as a grad student (before i went on to do my PhD in medieval history) to take classes on the crusades under the esteemed scholar Giles Constable, and I can assure you that he and the other participants were rigoorous in our study of the periods and theatre.
The crusades aren't my field of expertise (that's medieval monasticism, which has some crossover due to corresponding military orders connected to the Cistercians in particular - my papers were concerned with preaching the crusades in the main and the rhetoric used, and on the effect of "crusaders" who chose closer targets, such as local towns and their Jewish population rather than going anywhere near the Holy Land), but the articles I read in conjunction with my studies for Prof. Constable's classes were thoroughly well-researched from primary sources.
I'm not aware of any attempts to rename the crusades, other than the widely accepted notion that the "reconquista" in Spain was no such thing, but if you want to discuss that in more detail and the porous nature of the supposed borders between the "Christian" and "Muslim" parts of Spain, I'd be happy to do so in PMs. Then again, even the most conservative-inclined scholars and whig historians (who are also just as bound by theory and ideology as the supposedly politically correct left wing historians, if not even more so) accept that there were people of both sides fighting for and against each other there (and in the Holy Land). El Cid is the best known example, of course. In both Spain and the Holy Land, there was a lot more cultural and political mingling than most people realise.
The Crusades were one of the first periods of history that I read a 'real' book about and it was really interesting.
Part of my point, Nick. It was Runciman who demonstrated that a real crusades scholar needed to read rather a lot that wasn't written in Latin or French. A look at his bibliographies is a frightening experience!
Nick, I am interested in the history of Georgia at the time of the Crusades, I haven't yet seen a good history book on them, any recommendations?
Mark
Quote from: FierceKitty on 09 February 2021, 03:10:09 AM
Part of my point, Nick. It was Runciman who demonstrated that a real crusades scholar needed to read rather a lot that wasn't written in Latin or French. A look at his bibliographies is a frightening experience!
That's actually another point against the older, more conservative historians - they did tend to look at only western sources, and not those from the Islamic or Jewish world, in part because of their ideological bent.
Quote from: sultanbev on 09 February 2021, 09:51:08 AM
Nick, I am interested in the history of Georgia at the time of the Crusades, I haven't yet seen a good history book on them, any recommendations?
Mark
Mark, if you can PM me your email address, I can send you a bibliography on Georgian crusades from about 5 years ago ish with a brief introductory essay on the current (as was) state of research.
Are there any shield decals on the market? Crosses, Lions etc.
http://www.3vwargames.co.uk/upshop/shop/10mmtransfer.html
(http://www.3vwargames.co.uk/upshop/shop/10mmtransfer.html)
You could try veni, vidi, veci
Cheers L-)
Err ... no, that's the name of the company. - "Veni Vidi Vici".
They do 10mm shield transfers.
Yup. Ordered a number of decal sheets yesterday.
Well, tried a wash and the anti shine varnish.
Before wash.
(https://i.imgur.com/J21qavFl.jpg)
After wash
(https://i.imgur.com/IBhC2TGl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ahol5Hml.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rHt3dzll.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kYohX4wl.jpg)
I like 'em!
Thank you :D
Looking great
Very nice 8).
Lovely work.
Looking damn fine ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil. :)
:-bd =D> :-bd