Hi,
I'm still dithering over various ideas for my first 10mm project. I really like the late roman range and was thinking of using some to represent Romano British as opponents for early Saxons.
I can see the Saxon militia models in the late Roman range, but was wondering which other models people would use the represent Saxons of 5th & 6th century Britain (the island Britain, I know Great Britain didn't exist then :P).
Jonny
Would the Anglo Saxon range not do?
The Anglo-Saxon range in the Dark Ages section - especially the Select and Great Fyrd
The Viking bondi could be used to give some variation, if you like your irregulars to look irregular, and are also in the Dark Age section.
Isn't the Anglo-Saxon range more 9/10/11th century, rather than 5/6th?
See e.g. ARL16 in the Late Roman range
(https://pendraken.co.uk/_img/products/119/ARL16.jpg)
Thanks for the replies :)
I have to admit ignorance to knowing how different a 5th-6th century Anglo-Saxon would look to a 9th-11th century Anglo-Saxon.
If the dark age Saxon range will do the job that's great, I just thought I'd ask the question incase there were any obvious changes in clothing or weaponry that would mean they didn't look the part.
The late roman Saxon code looks like a great place to start, I'll look at the dark age ranges for options for variety and for 'big men' to lead the warbands!
If you only want a few figures or just particular poses an email to the nice Mr Leon will get a very helpful response. Pendraken are very happy to do special orders :)
Quote from: paulr on 16 January 2021, 01:55:12 AM
If you only want a few figures or just particular poses an email to the nice Mr Leon will get a very helpful response. Pendraken are very happy to do special orders :)
Excellent :)
I'll remember that one, thanks for the tip!
I think I'll need to avoid Dane axes and kite shields but other than that I'll use the dark ages Anglo-Saxon range and the Saxon Militia code in the late roman range :)
THese SAxons very prompt are they ? (Early you see
Quote from: ianrs54 on 16 January 2021, 11:32:18 AM
THese SAxons very prompt are they ? (Early you see
;D
Quote from: Jonny on 15 January 2021, 11:50:17 PM
Thanks for the replies :)
I have to admit ignorance to knowing how different a 5th-6th century Anglo-Saxon would look to a 9th-11th century Anglo-Saxon.
If the dark age Saxon range will do the job that's great, I just thought I'd ask the question incase there were any obvious changes in clothing or weaponry that would mean they didn't look the part.
The late roman Saxon code looks like a great place to start, I'll look at the dark age ranges for options for variety and for 'big men' to lead the warbands!
The 5th & 6th century invaders / colonists / "expats" generally travelling light.
Several rulesets suggest they fought "Warband style", as opposed to the later "Shieldwall style".
I believe archeology hints at smaller shields and less armour.
Of these, smaller shields may be a factor for you.
Easily ignored if you wish.
My own motto is fast becoming "At 10mm, who's going to notice".
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 16 January 2021, 01:04:38 PM
My own motto is fast becoming "At 10mm, who's going to notice".
Me - but then I'm nasty that way. Seriously with "ancients" even with the most "civilised" nations information is lacking, so it's very hard to be definate.
I really like that motto! :D
I think at 10mm I'll make sure to avoid wrong equipment like Dane axes and kite shields, but I might take liberties with shield diameter. Interestingly, the shield diameter of the Saxon militia in the later roman range looks larger than the diameter of the shields in the dark age Saxon range? I'm guessing most equipment was home made or inherited back then so there would have been variations in shield size?
Agree with all of Steve's comments.
My reference to the fyrd was because they are less well armoured and therefore more suitable for the early Saxons.
Brilliant,
Thanks everyone, all the advice and my limited research (Googling :D) has made me feel like I know what I'm aiming for now.
I really appreciate all the advice! :)
Quote from: fsn on 15 January 2021, 08:08:03 PM
See e.g. ARL16 in the Late Roman range
(https://pendraken.co.uk/_img/products/119/ARL16.jpg)
These are terrific figures, but I'm always sad when I see them that some variants with swords and bows could not be added to the range :(
ADA4?
(https://pendraken.co.uk/_img/products/4857/ADA4.jpg)
(https://pendraken.co.uk/_img/products/172/PIC3.jpg)
PIC3?
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 16 January 2021, 01:04:38 PM
My own motto is fast becoming "At 10mm, who's going to notice".
Are you serious? If it can be seen you can bet that somebody will notice ;D
Quote from: John Cook on 17 January 2021, 01:39:33 AM
Are you serious? If it can be seen you can bet that somebody will notice ;D
John, you clearly play the wrong people, most of my group couldn't tell an Anglo-saxon from an angle grinder!
You mean those aren't the same, Mike ?
Cheers - Phil. ;)
In fairness, you can probably grind Saxons and Angles with the same tools.
Only if they've been dipped in liquid nitrogen.
Cheers - Phil ;)
Accuracy is nice and all, but if you get close enough to the general look it's grand. I have crusades armies that can see battlefields from the first to the last crusade, and I don't stress too much if there's a helmet in the mix that is a few decades too early for that particular battle. Just depends how deep the obsession goes! I'll try and be accurate where I can, but often, especially in the ancient side of things, a lot of what we know is guesswork and extrapolation anyway so there's room for fudging.
Quote from: John Cook on 17 January 2021, 01:39:33 AM
Are you serious? If it can be seen you can bet that somebody will notice ;D
Those people are easily dismissed as "pedants" and blocked.
I then repeat the motto.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 17 January 2021, 02:54:54 PM
Those people are easily dismissed as "pedants" and blocked.
I then repeat the motto.
In that case we only need one type of Sherman tank and one type of generic French Napoleonic infantry, indeed, one figure for all periods from, say 1600 to 1900. It will make Leon's life very simple indeed.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 17 January 2021, 04:24:58 AM
John, you clearly play the wrong people, most of my group couldn't tell an Anglo-saxon from an angle grinder!
I am playing the wrong people? I haven't played anybody for over a year thanks to COVID.
I have used all the following for early Saxons, and they work well - AS 1, 3, 4, 6; NO 1, 2, 3, 4; DAX 1 - useful figures for both sides. You may also find some useful figures in other manufacturers 10mm Goth ranges.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 16 January 2021, 01:04:38 PM
The 5th & 6th century invaders / colonists / "expats" generally travelling light.
Several rulesets suggest they fought "Warband style", as opposed to the later "Shieldwall style".
I believe archeology hints at smaller shields and less armour.
Of these, smaller shields may be a factor for you.
From what little I know I agree with Steve's comments above.
Early Saxons carry small(ish) shields and fight in a "war band" style. By c.700 - what DBA calls the Middle Anglo-Saxon period - the shields get larger, as the warriors switch to "shield wall" fighting.
For Early Saxons only the very rich can afford swords, everyone else would have the seax - from which the Saxons took their name.
Of course, they're your figures so you can do whatever the heck you want.
I reckon AP3 Sassanid Persian javelin men would be a decent fit, with a little judicious use of paint. And, it would probably be good to also get a variety of figures carrying a javelin from the various ancient and dark ages ranges. The GRE5 Greek peltast pack has a guy with a round shield that would be suitable if painted with trousers.
Good luck,
Geoff
Thanks again for the advice and figure suggestions, I appreciate it!
I'll have a browse through all those ranges :)
just to add grist to the mill....
I have done a similar project to yourself and used a wide range of figures for Saxons and not just 'Saxons'. Its the early period and dont forget there will be Romanised Saxons/Germanics and and also 'free range' Saxons for the period. Use of Late Roman figures is not forbidden!
It's probably worth repeating that none of the different invasions of Britain resulted in a complete genocide *.
The usual result was a new ruling structure, ruling class and their elite soldiery.
These often mixed with the upper echelons of the former ruling class.
The new lords over a settled population of farmers and craftsmen, who frequently provided local militias.
In this context, It's credible to include some late Roman militias among the forces of a settled Saxon lord.
* The closest to a genocide was the Norman elimination of the Anglo/Danish lords between 1066 and 1086.
Documented in the two Domesday Books.
Also attested by upswing of "Saxon bands" serving foreign kings - notably the Byzantine emperors.
If somebody does them in 10mm - later medieval Pagan Slavs are probably acceptable to mix in - also some of the more 'furry' early Dark Age gothic & frankish types.
But avoiding two-handed axes (single handed axes are ok), too much armour (& even helmets) and definitely avoiding kite shields is probably a good way forward.
I once played against a 28mm Early Saxon army and it was basically an entire army of the same pose plastic figure ... in fact the might have been 1:72nd scale converted Airfix Robin hood figures - against my large 28mm Foundry Late Romans - which all seemed very unfair - but they were a tough opponent as they have some 10 more units than my smaller elite army and I only won by the narrowest of margins.