Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: Jonny on 14 January 2021, 11:39:56 AM

Title: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Jonny on 14 January 2021, 11:39:56 AM
Hi everyone,

It'll still be a little while before I dive into 10mm properly, but I was thinking about the process and wondering what the best options are for fixing models to lolly sticks for painting?

Any advice appreciated!

Jonny
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 14 January 2021, 11:52:58 AM
A small dab of UHU or similar works well, but remember to clean off when removing.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: fsn on 14 January 2021, 11:53:44 AM
I would suggest filing the bottom of the bases first. I know that sounds basic, and Pendraken's bottoms are relatively smooth, but a quick rasp works wonders.
 
I use Copydex. Hold the figures well enough, and is easy to remove.  
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Steve J on 14 January 2021, 11:55:22 AM
After sanding the bases flat where required, I use double sided tape.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: fred. on 14 January 2021, 12:06:17 PM
File flat ( usually very quick) then doublesided tape, about 5mm wide
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: T13A on 14 January 2021, 12:30:11 PM
Hi

After getting rid of any flash I attach the figures to plastic fruit carton tops with just a dab of cheap white glue applied to both the figures base and the tops (after leaving the glue to 'set' for around 10/15 minutes). Works well for me.

Cheers Paul
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: mmcv on 14 January 2021, 12:35:29 PM
I tend to just use blu tac or something similar. I find it's less messy than glue and if you knock a figure off while painting it's quick to reaffix.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 14 January 2021, 12:52:54 PM
Blu Tac works fine with 6mm tanks, so long as it's fresh. 10 15 and above I fine you need glue. If the larger scales are going to be indiviually based then just sick em to the base.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: mollinary on 14 January 2021, 01:05:33 PM
Blutac. Don't be tempted to put too many figures on each stick - I find three is ideal for both fast work and being able to 'get at' all the fiddly bits.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: mmcv on 14 January 2021, 01:42:10 PM
Quote from: mollinary on 14 January 2021, 01:05:33 PM
Blutac. Don't be tempted to put too many figures on each stick - I find three is ideal for both fast work and being able to 'get at' all the fiddly bits.

Interesting, I'd normally go with 5-6 infantry per stick or 3 cavalry at 10mm. Though I have been known to go up to 8-10 per stick if there's not too much fiddly detail needed.  Can generally batch them as units then.

Advantage of blu tac is you can switch the figures round if you need to get at a particular detail or find painting at a particular angle awkward.

Quote from: ianrs54 on 14 January 2021, 12:52:54 PM
Blu Tac works fine with 6mm tanks, so long as it's fresh. 10 15 and above I fine you need glue. If the larger scales are going to be indiviually based then just sick em to the base.

Yeah you do need to sometimes remove, reroll and reapply the blutac if it gets too much paint on it after a few rounds. Haven't painted any tanks yet, but would you not just paint them directly on their bases? Or do you leave them unbased?
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Orcs on 14 January 2021, 02:29:47 PM
I use copydex, as it holds the figures firmly but bot so firmly they are difficult to remove.

For figures bigger than 10mm I use a hot glue gun
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 14 January 2021, 02:31:23 PM
Dont base tanks now unless for BKC/CWC/FWC, in which case 30mm squares.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: fsn on 14 January 2021, 02:53:33 PM
I took the wise words of Master Orcs "he who eats deep pan, may also choose the pineapple".

I have no idea what he meant, but he also suggested the Copydex thing for which I tip my hat and thank him most kindly. 
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: mmcv on 14 January 2021, 03:16:55 PM
Does it not take a while to set? Hot glue is pretty quick but I seem to recall copydex needing 20-30 mins?
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: jimduncanuk on 14 January 2021, 03:30:18 PM
Blu-Tac every time.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Ithoriel on 14 January 2021, 03:42:30 PM
Copydex.

A bond that is solid (and lasts years if you are as much of a hobby butterfly as I am!) but which allows you to peel figures off the sticks and then peel the Copydex off the stick.

Vehicles, I undercoat the model, paint the base a suitable base-ish colour, give the bottom of wheels or tracks a quick skim with an emery board to expose the metal again, superglue to base, paint.

Based figures alongside unbased vehicles just look weird to me.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Techno II on 14 January 2021, 03:54:08 PM
Blu - Tak.......?

No.....Black - Tak........Far better.....but you'll have to look for it.

It might be too strong, however.

It's a sod to get off corks/spatulas etc.....But it's way stronger than the wimpy Blu
Tak. ;)

Cheers - Phil :)
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 14 January 2021, 04:00:34 PM
How bout white tac,,,,,same as blu tac but with no colouring
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 14 January 2021, 04:17:59 PM
Superglue or pva on coffee stirrers works for me. Holds about 12-15 figures a time
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Techno II on 14 January 2021, 04:32:41 PM
You can stick a 'proper' full sized digital SLR  camera onto a branch/door/wall (whatever) with Black Tak.....and then use a remote to take piccies....That's how strong it is.

A bucket full of blue/white Tak wouldn't be able to hold a camera.....The camera would peel off...hit the deck, and get intercoursed.

But back to the point  ;).... Wouldn't normal double sided 'sticky tape' work ?

Cheers - Phil. :)
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: mmcv on 14 January 2021, 04:55:20 PM
To be fair my "blu tac" is a mix of blue and white tack, plus an unspecified amount of paint giving it all a slightly mottled appearance.

I did try coffee stirrers over lolly sticks in the past but found the ones I'd got far too flimsy. Unfortunately, I now have hundreds of the buggers and need to find some use for them. I figure they'll make good planking if I ever make wooden buildings or forts.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: John Cook on 14 January 2021, 05:35:16 PM
If you are painting vehicles or guns, prepare them for painting in the usual way, paint the underside and glue them permanently to their bases.  I use superglue and plasticard bases.  PVA glue will be better for MDF bases as superglue doesn't work so well on absorbent surfaces.  One the glue has set, complete the painting and dress the base.  The same for WW2 figures.  They will be sufficiently spaced apart that you can paint them on their bases without the need of 'lolly sticks'.

For figures that are closer formed, which is almost anything from the late 19th century and earlier, the further back, the closer formed figures will tend to be.  For these you will need to fix them temporarily to a 'lolly stick' or something similar.  I use pieces of square dowel, left over from a DIY project years ago, cut to convenient lengths but 'lolly sticks' are good too.  I find that the maximum number of figures you can handle on one stick is about 8.

I have used Black Tack and PVA glue to fix the figures.  Black Tack has the advantage of being able to adjust the figures if you need to, and although pretty strong, is easier to remove them.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Ithoriel on 14 January 2021, 06:04:40 PM
Quote from: Techno II on 14 January 2021, 04:32:41 PM
But back to the point  ;).... Wouldn't normal double sided 'sticky tape' work ?

Cheers - Phil. :)

Not in my experience. Not a good enough bond.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: toxicpixie on 14 January 2021, 06:06:41 PM
Copydex as well, after someone here's suggestion!

Depending on pose I put 6-10 infantry or 5-6 cavalry on a "craft stick".
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Jonny on 14 January 2021, 06:34:33 PM
Thanks for all the answers! :D

I'll probably give a couple of methods a try and see how I fair. It's good to see there's a few viable options!

Jonny
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Orcs on 14 January 2021, 06:40:58 PM
Quote from: mmcv on 14 January 2021, 03:16:55 PM
Does it not take a while to set? Hot glue is pretty quick but I seem to recall copydex needing 20-30 mins?

Copydex does take a while to set. I leave my figures for a couple of hours before paining, often overnight.

I used to use the hot glue gun, but you get wispy "Hairs" of glue if your not very careful. Sometimes they are stuck on so tight you damage the  paint or occasionally the figure getting them off the stick.  

I stopped using Blue tack as often the tackiness gives out while you are painting and one or more drops off. Also Blue tak has oils in it that can affect paint adhering properly. You mix the blue tak to get it warm and sticky then transfer these oils to the figure as you push it into the "blob" of blue tak.

I use coffee stirrers. Trained my children when young to collect them for me, So much so I still have a boxful.  
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: fsn on 14 January 2021, 07:17:49 PM
I leave mine for half an hour or so, then do the priming.

Leave that overnight and they're ready for a basecoat.

6-10 infantry on a stick. 4 or 5 cavalry.

Vehicles I prime and basecoat, them mount them on a base and detail from there.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Norm on 14 January 2021, 10:05:18 PM
Another Copydex user.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: FierceKitty on 15 January 2021, 01:23:58 AM
Quote from: mmcv on 14 January 2021, 04:55:20 PM
To be fair my "blu tac" is a mix of blue and white tack, plus an unspecified amount of paint giving it all a slightly mottled appearance.

I did try coffee stirrers over lolly sticks in the past but found the ones I'd got far too flimsy. Unfortunately, I now have hundreds of the buggers and need to find some use for them. I figure they'll make good planking if I ever make wooden buildings or forts.

I'm turning some into Hussite waggons.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: DaveH on 15 January 2021, 10:58:00 AM
I use white glue (PVA) as it is reasonably easy to clear once I'm done and I need it for the 20mm soft plastic figures I use for WW2 gaming anyway.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Gwydion on 15 January 2021, 11:53:07 AM
Another vote for Copydex.
Yes it does take a while to cure, but once set it holds the figures firmly until you want to remove them. You can do that without breaking or bending them and the glue rubs off easily into satisfyingly squidgy pellets.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: mollinary on 15 January 2021, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: Gwydion on 15 January 2021, 11:53:07 AM
Another vote for Copydex.
Yes it does take a while to cure, but once set it holds the figures firmly until you want to remove them. You can do that without breaking or bending them and the glue rubs off easily into satisfyingly squidgy pellets.


And it's vile smell is one of my nastiest memories from primary school. Revolting stuff!  :-&  :-&
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Gwydion on 15 January 2021, 01:30:55 PM
Preferable to that of most of the pupils from what I remember. :)
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Ithoriel on 15 January 2021, 01:57:58 PM
"I love the smell of Copydex in the morning!"

Each to their own.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: toxicpixie on 15 January 2021, 07:01:36 PM
I really don't like the smell but fortunately my sinuses are so blocked I can never really pick it up :D
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: fred. on 15 January 2021, 07:16:19 PM
I only have poor memories of copydex from arts and crafts projects from decades ago, I can't see why anyone would choose it for temporarily basing figures.

As said above I use double sided sticky tape for this - its quick, clean, doesn't smell, and needs no drying time. I've never had problems with figures dropping of the painting sticks, even after a few years.
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: paulr on 15 January 2021, 07:49:15 PM
I also use double side tape

Fred's highlighted all the advantages although mine don't hang around on the sticks for years ;)
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: fred. on 15 January 2021, 08:50:06 PM
I don't plan for them to sit on painting sticks for years. But do keep finding them, carefully stashed away  :-[
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Terry37 on 15 January 2021, 09:14:41 PM
I use water based Elmer's. Easily comes off of metal, but holds tight for painting. And, it's chap.

Terry
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 16 January 2021, 08:00:29 AM
Quote from: Terry37 on 15 January 2021, 09:14:41 PM
And, it's chap.

Terry

Is it obviously male ?  ;)
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Jonny on 16 January 2021, 08:06:07 AM
Quote from: Terry37 on 15 January 2021, 09:14:41 PM
I use water based Elmer's. Easily comes off of metal, but holds tight for painting. And, it's chap.

Terry

I think Elmers is what we call PVA in the UK? Is copydex more or less stinky PVA, or does it have different properties? I was thinking I might try mod podge, which just seems like it's fancy (expensive) PVA, but I'm going to be buying a pot of mod podge for other hobby/craft anyway so might give it a go!
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: toxicpixie on 16 January 2021, 01:26:06 PM
Elmer's is a brand name for PVA.

I use copydex now as all my pva is hard core builders strength stuff and I find it a bit awkwardly strong when I come to remove figures off sticks ;)
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Gwydion on 16 January 2021, 02:21:28 PM
Copydex is definitely NOT pva.
It is a latex rubber cement in water solution, not to be confused with most (all?) other rubber solution glues which use harmful solvents - e.g. toluene or acetone.

It is used as a masking solution by watercolour artists and can be 'rolled' off the paper without damaging the ground. On he other hand it is firm enough to be used as a carpet glue. It all depends what direction the pressure is applied from how robust it is.

So in most figure painting circumstances it grips firmly enough for your needs but the figure can easily be separated from the stick/base without damage (or swearing, sharp objects, sliced thumbs etc).

Re Fred's comment - I can't see why anyone would use anything else. :)
Title: Re: Fixing models to lolly sticks
Post by: Jonny on 16 January 2021, 02:25:10 PM
Quote from: Gwydion on 16 January 2021, 02:21:28 PM
Copydex is definitely NOT pva.
It is a latex rubber cement in water solution, not to be confused with most (all?) other rubber solution glues which use harmful solvents - e.g. toluene or acetone.

It is used as a masking solution by watercolour artists and can be 'rolled' off the paper without damaging the ground. On he other hand it is firm enough to be used as a carpet glue. It all depends what direction the pressure is applied from how robust it is.

So in most figure painting circumstances it grips firmly enough for your needs but the figure can easily be separated from the stick/base without damage (or swearing, sharp objects, sliced thumbs etc).

Re Fred's comment - I can't see why anyone would use anything else. :)

Thanks for the explanation :) I think I'll give copydex a go and see how I get on!