I've just finished this unit of FPW Prussian Cuirassiers for my Battle of Bapaume project. Fingers crossed this posts ok! :)
Very nice Gareth :-bd
I don't know a lot about the FPW but there was much more to it than just the initial large border battles in Alcase-Lorraine and the seige of Paris wasn't there?
These look excellent, very nice!
Very nice Gareth 8).
Excellent, very dynamic
Those are nice figures, and well painted up too.
Quote from: pierre the shy on 19 November 2020, 05:20:04 PM
I don't know a lot about the FPW but there was much more to it than just the initial large border battles in Alcase-Lorraine and the seige of Paris wasn't there?
Oh yeah, it was a seriously large war. Compared with the American Civil War, FPW mustered about 50%-75% as many troops in the field and generated 50%-75% as many major battles (if your cut-off for 'major' is about 30,000+ troops per side). Total battle casualties were about a quarter or so those for ACW, but the ACW dragged on for much longer because of the sheer size of the country and the resulting logistical challenges, so there were many more smaller battles (and many more deaths from disease).
Anyway, FPW: yes, it has lots to offer gaming-wise, with one pair of contrasting armies facing off in the imperial phase, and then a very different contrast in the republican phase.
Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/
Very nice unit* :-bd
*somehow 'old school' in the figure pose - but no doubt following contemporary doctrine.Quote from: Chris Pringle on 19 November 2020, 05:55:33 PM
Anyway, FPW: yes, it has lots to offer gaming-wise, with one pair of contrasting armies facing off in the imperial phase, and then a very different contrast in the republican phase.
I don't know a lot about this conflict either and have always been put off starting a collection for the period because of its brevity and size of armies involved. However, lately it's got me thinking that the FPW could be viewed as an entry point for gaming not only it but also the various European wars that immediately preceded it. In this respect I'm reminded that it was a war between France and a Prussian led German Confederation and that this confederation included other States such as Bavaria and Wurttemberg both of which were at war with Prussia only 4 years previously as part of an Austrian led German Confederation? If so, the hobbyist has the option to war-game another conflict, the 1866 'Six Weeks War' between Austria and Prussia, with existing armies? And when an Austrian army is added to the collection, presumably you could also use these against the French to re-fight battles of the 1859 Risorgimento? Which then means, of course, you would have to collect an Italian Piedmontese army .... and so it could go on. Damn it! If only I was younger! ;)
[Perhaps from a sanity point of view, best to stick to the ACW? :P ]
Quote from: pierre the shy on 19 November 2020, 05:20:04 PM
Very nice Gareth :-bd
I don't know a lot about the FPW but there was much more to it than just the initial large border battles in Alcase-Lorraine and the seige of Paris wasn't there?
Yes that's right. At the moment my focus is on the second (Republican) phase of the war after the fall of the 2nd Empire and the virtual destruction of the professional army. The Republicans built 5 armies almost from scratch to continue the struggle, one on the Loire, one in Paris, one in the East of the country, a very odd one in the Vosges region and one in the north around Picardy. It is a very interesting period.
Nicely done!
The Prussian Cuirassiers are among my favorite sculpts. They are so dynamic and ... well... Cuirassiers! :)
Very well painted. I dislike the pose of the figures though.
Seems to be a valid pose; I'm guessing you're not keen on its dynamism.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/83/db/02/83db02dd5d9f348cc6ac22e641d9d2bf.jpg)(https://www.metropostcard.com/picswar-7c/ww1-c-191-dragoons.jpg.jpg)(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BA80KP/events-franco-prussian-war-1870-1871-battle-of-mars-la-tour-1681870-BA80KP.jpg)
:-bd =D> :-bd
Very nice painting and basing, I look forward to seeing more :)
I quite like the pose but prefer at least a couple of poses, especially for cavalry
Very nice work, Gareth ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil :)
The golden rule for heavy cavalry is stick 'em with the pointy end. There are a couple of minor drawbacks to the wars preceding the FPW. 1866 Austrian infantry tended to wear greatcoats, 1859 Austrians wore a white linen jacket, even the jaeger. 1859 Austrian hussars wore a coloured shako but many hussars in 1866 wore a natty little busby. The 1866 Saxons wore light blue with a peaked cap and many other German states wore a similar or peakless field cap in 1866, such as the Bavarians in their little light blue peaked caps. All French Imperial line infantry in 1870 wore red fringed epaulettes, but most units ditched these after Sedan. Even more irritating is that in the Crimea and Italy in the 1850s only line grenadier companies wore red epaulettes. The ordinary line companies and the light companies wore different colour combinations of epaulettes. There are other notable variations; even Pendraken produce Prussians in the 1860 and the 1867 pickelhaub (spot the problem for 1866). There was a time when I might have been overly concerned about all this, but nowadays the only concession I make to historical accuracy is to have 1866 Saxons in the correct uniforms; everything else gets fudged.
On a slightly different tack, if you don't have an Italian army of the period but would like to use the Bersaligieri figures there is a Genest picture which shows a franc tireur unit in the eastern campaign around Dijon wearing a very similar looking uniform.
http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/wpimages/wpe7727ff5_0a_06.jpg
Quote from: Westmarcher on 19 November 2020, 06:55:18 PM
the FPW could be viewed as an entry point for gaming not only it but also the various European wars that immediately preceded it.
Notwithstanding what Andy (Leman) rightly says about uniform changes between wars, you're right: if you're not too fussy about headgear etc, you can get good value out of your late C19 armies:
Red-trousered French get to fight in the Crimea, and in Italy in 1859, and Mexico, and FPW in 1870;
Pickelhaube Prussians fight Danes in 1864, Austrians in 1866, and French in FPW;
Austrians fight Hungarians and Italians in 1848, French in 1859, Danes in 1864, Austrians in 1866
Italians fight Austrians in 1848 and 1859 and Russians in the Crimea
Russians fight Hungarians in 1848 and everyone in the Crimea
ACW Union troops are decent proxies for Danes, or for Greeks vs Turks in 1897
Red-fezzed Turks fight Russians in the Crimea, and in Bulgaria in 1828 and 1877, and Greeks in 1897
And as weaponry and tactics and doctrine change a lot in this period, each army and each war has its own character and presents its own tactical challenges.
Go for it!
Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1412549408869331
Great uniform info, Andy. Thanks. I should've known that military fashion would inevitably change over even 10 years or so (e.g., Napoleonic Wars, WW1 & WW2, etc.)! :D And even more conflicts to game than I thought, Chris. :-bd
Thanks for the photos, Stewart. I was thinking more of 'Old School Toy Soldiers' actually (I was almost certain it was doctrine having only just read about it in The Waterloo Companion and recalling the British WW1 cavalry sword descriptive caption on a visit to the Museum in Edinburgh Castle :-[ ). One pose for all, ramrod straight, all at exactly the same angle, unlike the first photo you posted where no sword is at precisely the same angle even though the doctrinal pose has been assumed. If I had these figures I might bend some of the arms ever so slightly to make the line look more dynamic like your first photo. Plus, because that pose only represents one phase of the charge, like Paul, I tend to prefer more variety (e.g., Lady Butler's Scots Greys charge painting springs to mind). :)
Quote from: fsn on 20 November 2020, 06:57:37 AM
Seems to be a valid pose; I'm guessing you're not keen on its dynamism.
No, not keen at all I'm afraid. Valid it may be but it is very untypical. A cavalry charge, over say up to approximately 1.5km, would be conducted principally at the walk and trot, with the gallop and charge (as in your pictures) over the last 300-400m, comprising something like 40 seconds, otherwise the horses would be blown before they reached their target. The rest of the time cavalry walked when it moved, but mainly it stood around, as far out of harms way as possible, waiting to be told to do something, like the French Cuirassier FPW1. I dislike charging cavalry poses (and charging and standing firing infantry for that matter) as much as others dislike prone LMG figures. I prefer all my cavalry to be walking or trotting with shouldered weapons.
If you were really mad you could have two different bases per unit. One for movement one for charging/combat where they get the swords stuck in. Seems excessive though!
The figures on the base are always a representation and never going to be accurate for all situations, and often using a well-formed line of charging figures or a looser order of different poses can represent different levels of professionalism, discipline, or elan. This can be a nice way to represent unit stats or game rules without having to refer to a separate OOB or unit label all the time.
I like the energy in the pose here, it may be a little wrong for walking about the battlefield, but adds a sense of drama to the charge when they launch themselves into combat, which is often where the excitement of the game flows from anyway.
In a perfect world I would have my heavy cavalry on standing horses with shouldered swords. I'm not fussed about the leg positions of standing horses they can be all the same but I would prefer some variation in the horses' head positions. Light and medium cavalry for me can be a bit more animated, but not the full charge pose. I would also, in said perfect world, have them modeled in cavalry great coats for that desolate, chilled to the bone look. However, these are well sculpted and detailed figures that paint up very nicely and I am pleased with them
Brilliant Gareth
Oh John, you will grow out of it as you get older and realise if you want to do X and only Y figure is available then just go with it. There are some casul looking cuirassiers in the Red Eagle 10mm range.
(https://scontent-ams4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/126121924_124996056059405_8149271566564462657_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=BlFKYwi_Z7cAX8Ztymp&_nc_ht=scontent-ams4-1.xx&oh=ce3c48339aa641b4b6cf6ee45e92ea51&oe=5FDE9C3E)
Proper flag in the background there. :-bd
Oh, and some figures too. Well, they're also nice.
Quote from: Leman on 20 November 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Oh John, you will grow out of it as you get older and realise if you want to do X and only Y figure is available then just go with it. There are some casul looking cuirassiers in the Red Eagle 10mm range.
Is that right? Well, I'm approaching 74 years old and have been wargaming for 55 of them. I think I have made my mind up about what I prefer. I also think that replies like yours run the risk of being mistaken for condescending superiority and have the potential to cause serious offence. I am not offended though and assume you posted in haste without thinking it through ;)
Quote from: Gareth121 on 20 November 2020, 12:37:38 PM
In a perfect world I would have my heavy cavalry on standing horses with shouldered swords. I'm not fussed about the leg positions of standing horses they can be all the same but I would prefer some variation in the horses' head positions. Light and medium cavalry for me can be a bit more animated, but not the full charge pose. I would also, in said perfect world, have them modeled in cavalry great coats for that desolate, chilled to the bone look. However, these are well sculpted and detailed figures that paint up very nicely and I am pleased with them
I agree completely. Pendraken's figures are everything you say they are and you have certainly done them justice, as usual.
Quote from: mmcv on 20 November 2020, 11:50:50 AM
If you were really mad you could have two different bases per unit. One for movement one for charging/combat where they get the swords stuck in. Seems excessive though!
More than excessive. That would indeed be the path to madness, and bankruptcy ;D
My Franco_Prussian War project is moving on, all be it at a slow pace. I have almost completed the Prussian force (just some artillery batteries to go now) and am working on the 2nd and final French corps (23rd). These are the 2 btns of Fusilier Marins that form part of the 1st brigade of the 1st division in the above corps.
Just keep pluging away - looking good !
Seconded !
Cheers - Phil :)
Amazing Gareth, really great work.
Thanks mate. I think the completion of the project is in sight. Which is just as well as I am beginning to imagine what the next one will be!!!!
Nice! :-bd
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
General Derojja, commander of the 1st Division of the 22nd Corps
This is a test to see if the picture link works
Edit - no it didn't ??? I'll be back later! :)
Sorry no piccies
I like the little splodges of snow on the previous page, but as Ian says no picture of Gen. Derroja.
Next attempt - General Derojja take 2
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-X1NFTwnkyEw/YCPZmQ9n5oI/AAAAAAAAAN8/coQM4U_o_-Mmet6U6XXrIU79Mo7wI2YGACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/IMG_20210210_113653.jpg?size=750)
Ahh that looks better
No doubt some one will do it for you, but you need to add a size parameter into the tag, No I don't know how !
That is excellent Gareth.
(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
VERY zippy ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil. :)
Very nice work 8).
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Ah, there he is and looking mighty fine. :-bd
The spitting image - it's uncanny!
https://webmuseo.com/ws/musenor/app/collection/record/28776
Lovely work, Gareth.
Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles
BBBBlog:
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/
BBB on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1412549408869331
Prussian Artillery
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DRLQy5l6Hxo/YEzelxIn9VI/AAAAAAAAARU/ca4b-tn8CxoIEWiAZm3miDQOE9fXptldQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/IMG_5285.JPG?size=750)
These 5 batteries are the very last combat units in my Battle of Bapaume project. It's now complete. That not to say I won't add more units in the future when it becomes the Battle of St Quentin project. :)
Very nice, Gareth!
Just to encourage your St Quentin ambition - the lead-up to St Quentin makes for a really interesting game, 'chase the wagon train' but on an army scale, tons of manoeuvre:
https://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2015/03/st-quentin-fpw-bbb-participation-game.html
Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles
Quote from: Chris Pringle on 13 March 2021, 04:28:16 PM
Very nice, Gareth!
Just to encourage your St Quentin ambition - the lead-up to St Quentin makes for a really interesting game, 'chase the wagon train' but on an army scale, tons of manoeuvre:
https://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/2015/03/st-quentin-fpw-bbb-participation-game.html
Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles
Thanks. I will take a bit of a break to get my second wind, but I won't need much persuading to expand the armies to do St Quentin.
Amazing Gareth. Love them.
(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
They look lovely and deadly in equal measure. Great job!
Great work on those, Gareth ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil. :)
Really impressive looking massed battery. Pity the poor French up against those. Recently received some of the new greatcoated Prussians having been inspired by both you and Lemmy. :-bd
Quote from: Leman on 14 March 2021, 09:45:34 AM
Recently received some of the new greatcoated Prussians having been inspired by both you and Lemmy. :-bd
Great news - I look forward to seeing pictures of your troops.
wonderful and consistent painting all along, excellent!
Cheers,
Rob