Hi all! :D
First post here. I've been in the hobby for many years, but this is the first time I have tried 10mm. Must say the Pendraken minis are wonderful to paint!
I've never done the FPW so decided to start here. I'm a fairly slow painter, so things won't move rapidly. I am presently working on the French and plan to do a couple divisions worth of minis and then move over and paint Prussians.
Here is where my army stands at the moment:
(https://i.imgur.com/mBvZca0.jpg)
You can see the full sized image here: https://i.imgur.com/mBvZca0.jpg
Here is a closeup photo of my line infantry. I used charging Chasseurs to mix it up a bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/gJPVbuC.jpg)
Here are a couple battalions of Chasseurs I just finished. Ideally for grand tactical gaming they should be just one stand, but I like 2 stands so that they look like they are skirmishing:
(https://i.imgur.com/0vJIk78.jpg)
Hope you like the minis! I'll be posting more as I finish them, but as I say, I'm a pretty slow painter.
A very warm welcome, Ray. :-h
The figures look absolutely terrific !! :-bd
Cheers - Phil
Spectacular stuff!
Welcome to the forum from me too.
Welcome to the mad house.
Wow ! Those are absolutely lovely - some top notch painting.
I really like the basing as well. Works very well.
Looking forward to more pics.
Phil
Lovely looking work and welcome to the forum!
I have to say, those look great. Welcome to the forum!
Welcome on board Ray and I must say those look fantastic 8). You may be slow but you're pretty damned good at painting!
Those look excellent, very nice!
You will get used to us eventually Ray, Rule 1 - be rude to Phil, Rule 2 Ignore Nobby(aka FSN) and welcome
Welcome to the forum. FPW is in my top three favourites. A fascinating period with bucket loads of reference material these days. The photos look great. I also use 6mm buildings with 10mm and can highly recommend Timecast, Total Battle Miniatures and Levan Miniatures for some really authentic French buildings for the period.
Andy
Lovely work, looking forward to seeing more.
Very impressive work there. Hello and welcome.
Nice work, Sir. In restless times, I haver between the FPW and 1914. One day I may come down on one side the other.
Ianrs54 is a really nice and knowledgeable fellow. I'd pay great attention to all he posts.
Hi Ray, welcome to Pendraken land, great to see the finished work on these, having seen the progress over on LAF
Love those figures
Beautiful stuff, well done and welcome!
Thanks for the welcome, everyone! :-bd
Quote from: Glorfindel on 17 November 2020, 03:29:37 PM
Welcome to the mad house.
Should fit right in I would think. :)
Quote from: ianrs54 on 17 November 2020, 04:23:54 PM
You will get used to us eventually Ray, Rule 1 - be rude to Phil, Rule 2 Ignore Nobby(aka FSN) and welcome
;D That's a joke... right? ;)
Quote from: fred. on 17 November 2020, 06:00:36 PM
Hi Ray
Hi Fred!
I've been a lurker for a long time. There is some absolutely stunning work posted here. So I really do appreciate the warm welcome.
@ Leon - You have a great company, superb miniatures and fantastic service. =D>
I think I will enjoy visiting this forum every day.
Quote from: Ray Rivers on 17 November 2020, 07:00:01 PM
@ Leon - You have a great company, superb miniatures and fantastic service. =D>
I think I will enjoy visiting this forum every day.
Thanks for that Ray and welcome to the Forum!
Excellent work :-bd
Very nice. I especially like the Chasseurs.
Oh, and try to ignore what Ian does to English, especially when he's expressing loathing for everyone who speaks any other lingo. ;D
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Welcome :-h
Quote from: Ray Rivers on 17 November 2020, 07:00:01 PM
;D That's a joke... right? ;)
It's complicated
Quote from: Ray Rivers on 17 November 2020, 07:00:01 PM
I think I will enjoy visiting this forum every day.
I certainly do
Welcome to the Forum.
Regards
Sean
Those are beautiful.
:x
Thanks all... very much!
The scenic stuff you see posted was made by Irregular Miniatures about 20 years ago and are mostly OOP. I did them for a 6mm project and am now rebasing them and refurbishing them a bit for this project. I am trying to do at least one base of scenic stuff for each batch of minis. They are not the greatest...
I am working on some Cuirassiers atm. Hopefully they will be done soon. Though "soon" for me may be a week! @-)
Quote from: Ray Rivers on 18 November 2020, 12:52:33 PM
Hopefully they will be done soon. Though "soon" for me may be a week! @-)
I have some figures I was going to paint "soon" that are still unpainted .... bought in 1978!!!
I like CCP (makers of the EVE Online MMO computer game) definition of SOON
TM - "a period up to, but not including, the next Ice Age" :)
Deployed regularly when asked when a fix was going to happen or an update was to be released.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 18 November 2020, 02:49:09 PM
I like CCP (makers of the EVE Online MMO computer game) definition of SOONTM - "a period up to, but not including, the next Ice Age" :)
=O
Hopefully it will be before that... :^o
Marvellous detail! "Slow" has a certain quality! (bet you're ten times faster than me! :) )
Btw, you said you've never done the FPW before - neither have I but I found this site some years ago that might help you with equipment and uniform colours and shades for the various participating nations:-
http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/page180.html (http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/page180.html)
Quote from: Westmarcher on 18 November 2020, 07:04:24 PM
Marvellous detail! "Slow" has a certain quality! (bet you're ten times faster than me! :) )
Btw, you said you've never done the FPW before - neither have I but I found this site some years ago that might help you with equipment and uniform colours and shades for the various participating nations:-
http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/page180.html (http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/page180.html)
Sorry. Pasted 'wrong' link. :-[ Here's the Home Page:-
http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/index.html (http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/index.html)
Very many thanks for that. I had access to it back in the UK but my old computer didn't make it across the North Sea. It is indeed an invaluable resource, and where I first came across French Republican infantry in white uniforms and dragoons having to resort to their old green uniforms.
Quote from: Westmarcher on 18 November 2020, 10:04:54 PM
Here's the Home Page:-
http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/index.html (http://www.laguerrede1870enimages.fr/index.html)
Very interesting site. Have bookmarked it for future use.
Thanks!
Those are very nice looking figures. Looking forward to seeing some more.
f
Quote from: Leman on 20 November 2020, 08:06:46 AM
f
Hmmm.... ;)
Had a painting spree on Saturday, which rarely happens and managed to finish my Cuirassiers. They are on white horses, which is a bit unrealistic for an entire regiment, but what the hell!
Here is a couple photos of them based, though the photos are a bit too dark and fuzzy.
(https://i.imgur.com/CIX6xkQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/r5MFW4F.jpg)
Here is a link to closeups of the troopers before I based them: https://i.imgur.com/epGqI7J.jpg
I had hoped they would come out better but with so much detail... well, not as well as I had hoped.
On the brighter side, I finished a flock of sheep! :D
(https://i.imgur.com/jeVNNeI.jpg)
I'm presently working on a different piece of terrain and we'll see how that comes out. After that a couple regiments of Zouaves!
Cheers!
Those are both brilliant.
Quote from: Ray Rivers on 22 November 2020, 07:18:29 PM
Had a painting spree on Saturday, which rarely happens and managed to finish my Cuirassiers. They are on white horses, which is a bit unrealistic for an entire regiment, but what the hell!
Nicely done, white horses notwithstanding. I like the pose too - that's what cavalry should look like.
Beautifully painted, white horses notwithstanding!
As to the pose - too static for my tastes. I like my heavy cavalry modelled in the final moments of a charge ... or dead. The latter only for enemy units, of course :)
Very nice!
Very nice work Ray 8).
Like those lots ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil :)
Lovely, including the woolly friends. I like my heavies static like yours and my lights in full flight...
They look a little sheepish to me (got me coat)
Never mind the cuirassiers' white horses, us sticklers for historical accuracy want to know what breed the sheep are. Bleu du Maine, perhaps? And what about the dog's pedigree? ;)
Lovely work, Ray - I'd be proud to have such figures on my wargame table. (The cuirassiers and the sheep both.)
Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://groups.io/g/bloodybigbattles
BBBBlog:
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/
Cheers, everyone!
Quote from: Chris Pringle on 23 November 2020, 09:52:26 AM
Never mind the cuirassiers' white horses, us sticklers for historical accuracy want to know what breed the sheep are. Bleu du Maine, perhaps? And what about the dog's pedigree? ;)
Oh nose! I was afraid someone would ask and to be quite frank... IDK! :)
The painting is lovely, but that dog is as big as sheep! No wonder they do what it tells them.
Quote from: mollinary on 23 November 2020, 01:07:45 PM
The painting is lovely, but that dog is as big as sheep! No wonder they do what it tells them.
If the dog is going to have to help repel wolves, or similar, you probably don't want a Chihuahua!
The Sumerian giant mastiffs used by shepherds from the 2nd or 3rd millennia BCE were also used in the 1st millennium BCE to hunt lions!
Modern sheepdogs have it easy! :)
Quote from: mollinary on 23 November 2020, 01:07:45 PM
The painting is lovely, but that dog is as big as sheep! No wonder they do what it tells them.
Great Dane? ;)
(https://petspruce.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Dogs-That-Look-Like-Scooby-Doo-scaled.jpg)
Quote from: Chris Pringle on 23 November 2020, 09:52:26 AM
Never mind the cuirassiers' white horses, us sticklers for historical accuracy want to know what breed the sheep are. Bleu du Maine, perhaps? And what about the dog's pedigree?
They look a bit like Shaun and his mates. The dog is clearly Bitzer.
Quote from: John Cook on 23 November 2020, 01:34:49 PM
They look a bit like Shaun and his mates. The dog is clearly Bitzer.
I'll need to add some spots to his back...
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
to both 'units'
Quote from: Ray Rivers on 23 November 2020, 01:43:37 PM
I'll need to add some spots to his back...
As long as he doesn't end up looking like 'Spotty Dog' from the Woodentops ! X_X
Cheers - Phil ;)
Only you remember them Phil
I remember the Woodentops and loved it as a kid! Hated Andy Pandy which was just weird.
I remember Muffin the Mule ..... there's probably an outstanding warrant! :D
Both Andy Pandy and the Woodentops were favourites a few years later.
What about Twizzlze ?....And Torchy, the battery boy ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Spotty Dog... Andy Pandy... Muffin the Mule... Twizzlze... Torchy...
I think I am out of my league here... @-)
Now... Dino, Porky Pig, Yogi the Bear... 8)
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.lIN0LdS0VX9XZ_ORV-EphgAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
:D
;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.
The sheep can actually be useful in the FPW as a flock was fired on when mistaken for Prussian cavalry. Perhaps used as a panic marker.
Andy
Interesting, Andy. :-SS
Now I need some help.
My French are based on a 30x30 base (a battalion) and 3 make a regiment of approximately 750 blokes.
As I draw closer to starting my Huns, I've been thinking about their basing. The plan was to use a 40x30 base with 8 men which would give me a regiment of 1,000 Prussians.
The closer I get to doing this, the more I wonder... should the frontage of a Prussian regiment (120mm) be greater than the frontage of a French one (90mm)? Wouldn't someone have adjusted their frontage?
I could go deeper with the Prussians to maintain the same frontage and give them a third rank. I could also try to pack another 2 minis on the 30x30 base. Or... I could just accept that the Prussian regiments are going to be bigger and accept the asymmetry.
What'ca all think?
I thought the accounts states Prussians advanced with two battalions in skirmish and one formed. But I am often wrong.
French deployed in line for maximum firepower.
Guess frontage would be roughly equal, but Chad, Cameronian and Mollinary will give you exact numbers I'm sure.
Lemmey's right in that Leman, Mollinary et alia will definitely keep you right, there.
However, as you know, a table top war games unit is basically an abstraction of the real thing - the figures are way too large, there is not enough of them (unless you're mad enough to form the unit on a 1:1 scale), the unit footprint in line is usually too deep and, due to losses and detachments, every unit does not have the exact same strength in men.
Therefore, like many war-games rules, another option is to push that abstraction further and standardise your unit sizes regardless of nationality, regarding each unit's footprint on the table as not representing the exact area but the general area occupied by that unit regardless of actual strength (within certain parameters, of course). This can make life a lot simpler when it comes to basing.
Understood.
I would like to model the asymmetrical forces, though perhaps that is not possible.
I understand the Prussians fought 3 lines deep, with the first line in skirmish formation. So I could use a 30x40 base, place 2 guys up front skirmishing with a double line of 6 behind. That would give me the 8 guys I need per battalion (as opposed to the 6 for the French). Three battalions thus represent 1,000 men and keep the frontage the same for both armies.
Ideas? Comments? Recommendations?
Ears wide open! :)
Hi Ray,
Not sure where you got your numbers for battalions and regiments from, but they are far too small. Prussian battalions at full strength would be 1,000 strong, and even after some time on campaign would often number some 750 men. For example the Prussian 38th Brigade at Mars-la-Tour numbered some 4,644, or nearly 800 men per battalion. French regiments were smaller, but battalions in the field would often number some 500. As far as tactics, there is, I am afraid, little standardisation. The Prussians were in the middle of a battle between those who emphasised the company as the main tactical unit, and those (usually field officers) who wanted to retain control at battalion level. The latter wanted to keep a half battalion column behind the firing line, under their personal command, ready to intervene with the Bayonet at the crucial point. The former would often support the whole battalion deploying into a loose firing line, which would search for the flanks of any enemy unit and erode it with fire. In the end, the superior range of the chassepot often drove the Prussians to ground before either of these systems could work, and the Prussians had to rely on their superior numbers of guns to suppress the static French. Sorry this is a bit rushed, but the subject is vast, and complex!
Okay, you're right. Let's start again. General speaking...
The French had battalions of roughly 750 men giving a regiment of 3 battalions roughly 2250 troops.
The Prussians had battalions of roughly 1000 men giving a regiment of 3 battalions roughly 3000 troops.
Is that roughly correct?
My French regiments have 3 bases of 6 men, each representing a battalion (125 to 1). The frontage is 30mm.
At 125 to 1 a Prussian battalion would be 8 figures. The problem is how do I represent a Prussian battalion?
Should I use a frontage of 40mm in 2 lines? Should I use a frontage of 30mm and put 4 men per line? Or should I put 3 lines on a 30mm front and 40mm depth?
For me, the answer is ... it depends.
I decide what rules I'll be using and work from there.
Starting from the nominal strengths would be my last resort. Battalions in any war for any army are rarely at TO&E strength. A few may be over strength, most will be under and a few more will be well under. Research suggests comparatively few people in any formation are actively trying to kill the enemy. A small number of men tend to inflict most of the casualties.
So unless the amount of ground a unit covered was a significant factor I'm not convinced size of base matters so much as consistency of representation but the rules you use may beg to differ! :)
Most of the rules I use these days specify base width but are less concerned with depth so 8 figures on a 30x40 might be the way to go. But I still say, find a set of rules you like and be guided by them.
Whatever basing you choose, I am sure they will be beautifully painted!
Quote from: Ithoriel on 26 November 2020, 02:05:39 AM
Most of the rules I use these days specify base width but are less concerned with depth so 8 figures on a 30x40 might be the way to go. But I still say, find a set of rules you like and be guided by them.
This. Unless you already have a set of rules in mind that require 3 bases per battalion, I'd recommend finding the right rules for you first, then using whatever basing they recommend. If they're handwavey about basing, then pick something that looks good, and stick with that, or if you're likely to be playing with some other local gamers, chat to them and see what they use or would prefer to use if they're going to start on their own armies too.
My preference for FPW is Bloody Big Battles, which suggests 1" (or up to 1 1/2") bases, though a lot of people (especially with 10mm) use 30mm. The number of bases varies by unit depending on strength, so rather than picking a fixed ratio of figures to numbers, there's more of a ratio of bases to numbers, and you can put as many or as few figures to a base as you like. Frontages and depths are always an abstraction in any wargame, and frequently don't match up (especially depth - most wargaming units would need to be about 1-2mm), so don't worry too much about tryng to make them work, when a perfectly good game can be had by using a varying amount of bases to represent a unit's strength.
I favour Nick's approach above. My favoured rules are BBB, available from Caliver, for the large battles, where the number of bases represents the strength of a brigade or division. I also use Field of Battle, where all infantry and cavalry units are four bases strong, but their unit ratings vary depending on strength/training/morale etc. This set works well for a batallion level game. Another option is 1871 by Bruce Weigle, available from Caliver, (which also includes some 1870 scenarios). These are a streamlined version of his 1870 rules (which also includes some 1871 scenarios) . The approach here is one 30mm wide base per battalion for both sides. The units are therefore rather abstract. Furthermore the scale often requires tables upwards of 8 feet long, consequently I tend to use either the smaller scenarios or fight parts of a battle. I also use 25mm square bases for all infantry and cavalry in 10mm. If you are looking to have a visual representation of the units on the tabletop I would suggest the older style rules such as They Died For Glory or Les Gens Braves, both available from Caliver.
Incidentally the 1870 rules contain a wealth of information on the FPW armies, as well as the rules and scenarios. There is also a substantial bibliography. 1871 also includes a very comprehensive bibliography. Helion publishers is also an excellent source of books and pamphlets on the Franco-Prussian War, and the preceding wars of German unification.
Thank you all very much for your thoughts. That was exactly the information I needed.
I have been going back and forth between BBBs and 1870/1871 and it appears that you have solved my dilemma. I much prefer the presentation used by BBBs, so I shall go and get them. Having said that, 1870 also appears worth getting, so I shall buy those as well.
Once again, thanks! :-bd
Happy to be of help Ray.
Andy
You seem, to me, to be putting cart before horse and I agree that you need to decide now what rules you intend to use, and be guided by them, otherwise you may find yourself having to adapt your stands to the rules you choose later.
Stands are no more than 'counters' when it comes down to it and the number of figures on a stand is not as important as the frontage the stand is supposed to represent. The only way you can arrive at that is by knowing what the ground scale is in the first place.
A stand ought to reflect something approximating to the width of a file (the frontage occupied by a single soldier) multiplied by the number of files it represents.
This is my approach with every period from the Norman Invasion to the American Civil War.
It's no big deal mate.
If I game with these it will probably be by myself. No gaming groups where I live.
I love painting miniatures and have for a long time. I find it very relaxing, which allows me to approach real life problems in a more stable and fresh manner.
Don't get me wrong. I love gaming and I want the stuff that I do to be representative of the war that they fought in. But at this point in my life, gaming is just not a priority... unlike, for example, my grand son.
Have to agree. Seen too much angst over the past 50 years concerning frontage, depth. how many buttons on X uniform. Very iimportant if you are in charge of Trooping the Colour, otherwise nah.....not for just playthings.
Its all good.
Quote from: Leman on 26 November 2020, 05:28:10 PM
Have to agree. Seen too much angst over the past 50 years concerning frontage, depth. how many buttons on X uniform. Very iimportant if you are in charge of Trooping the Colour, otherwise nah.....not for just playthings.
Couldn't agree less. 1 Corinthians 13.
Work has been slowish...
I have finished some terrain, generals and some zouaves.
The generals. Division commander, Aide (arm swap, looks a little off because he is tilted) and a Garde Brigadier:
(https://i.imgur.com/6pKGRKJ.jpg)
And here are some Zouaves. Working on 2 regiments and these are the first 15 done.
(https://i.imgur.com/1qDm0AH.jpg)
A pretty poor photo but I think you get the idea how colorful these folks will look.
Cheers!
Those are belting !
Cheers - Phil
Very stylish, neat and inspiring painting! Bravo!
Those are superb. Well done (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
Cracking work again Ray!
Excellent
Thanks all! :)
Sometimes I wish my photography was better, but to be honest, I just do the best I can. Point and shoot on auto. :D
Those are very nice!
Nicely done! :-bd
:-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Quote from: Ray Rivers on 20 December 2020, 09:34:42 PM
Sometimes I wish my photography was better, but to be honest, I just do the best I can. Point and shoot on auto. :D
I've said it umpteen times before, Ray......But you should see the cruddy photos I send Leon, for checking 'masters'.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the ones you've posted. :)
Cheers - Phil.
This is incredible work! :o
Well, I find it credible, which I say with admiration.
Hi all!
Sorry I haven't posted for awhile. I had double cataract surgery a couple months ago. It is taking awhile for my eyes to heal and my close up vision has really taken a hit. I do use an opti-visor for painting, but I don't know if I can still paint like before. I'll give it some more time before trying again.
Thanks to all for the lovely comments!
The only way to know is try.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 03 July 2021, 01:13:36 PM
The only way to know is try.
The problem is my sight at medium and long distances is still not up to standard and I even wonder if I will be able to pass my drivers license test next year. When I do very close up work, such as paperwork, in short order my eyes start tearing up and I get head aches.
So I need to wait a bit, I think.
Hi Ray, I've just posted some information about Bruce Weigle's website which has been down for a while. I am also about to embark on an FPW game using Neil Thomas' C19th Europe rules, with some additions by a friend of mine. Will post photos of the game shortly.
Very best of luck, Ray.....I hope the eyes will settle down after a while.
(I'm sure they will.)
All the best - Phil. :)
Quote from: Leman on 03 July 2021, 05:25:05 PM
Hi Ray, I've just posted some information about Bruce Weigle's website which has been down for a while. I am also about to embark on an FPW game using Neil Thomas' C19th Europe rules, with some additions by a friend of mine. Will post photos of the game shortly.
Looking forward to it! :)
Quote from: Techno II on 04 July 2021, 05:36:18 AM
Very best of luck, Ray.....I hope the eyes will settle down after a while.
(I'm sure they will.)
All the best - Phil. :)
My doctor said my brain needs to re-wire itself and it could take some time but he is confident things will sort themselves out.
Sure hope so! :-SS
Couple of photos of my current game using Neil Thomas' C19th Europe rules, 10mm figures and a Geek Villain fleece mat.Table size is 3'x3'. Ruler is 2/3rd inch scale.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51294629965_22eab6585f.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51294338249_ffb9c9a990.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51293621276_7d8c3471f8.jpg)
Very nice Andy 8).
Looks really good. :-bd
Cheers - Phil. :)
Incidentally, as my figures are based on 25mm square bases, I represent infantry column movement (the only formation for movement in the Thomas rules) as 2x2 bases. This is more aesthetically pleasing than one behind the other when using square bases. Cavalry do everything in 2x2 formation, but infantry must change formation to line to fire and cannot move in that formation (except British in Crimea and Spain).
Best wishes for your eyes healing well.
I've just seen this thread and the French command and Zouaves are lovely.
Quote from: DHautpol on 07 July 2021, 12:47:35 PM
Best wishes for your eyes healing well.
I've just seen this thread and the French command and Zouaves are lovely.
Thanks, mate!