Hi. Can you shoot at enemy FAOs or are they immune to fire, like HQs and COs?
Still vulnerable to close assault and attack by artillery and air?
I'm pretty sure that they count as an HQ unit, so can't be directly targeted by fire.
FAOs & FACs are classified as Command units so they cannot be targeted for direct fire or area fire - (in the same way as COs and HQs) - except by Sniper fire.
Snipers are also classified as Command units and this prohibition against directly targeting them also applies.
FAO's, FAC's and Sniper Teams can be caught in area fire templates (like COs and HQs).
Thanks
Mark
Thank you! Round stands for snipers and FAOs! - Chris
Sounds like a good plan :D
I mount my FAOs on small MDF hexagonal bases, my FACs on small square bases (to differentiate them) and my Recce on UK 2 pence pieces and my Snipers on 1 pence pieces
Snipers can of course target other Command bases for direct fire, and that includes other Snipers (along the lines of 'Enemy at the Gates')
Recce can of course be targeted by direct fire and indirect fire (poor things) ... the casualty rate amongst my own recce is usually pretty high. :(
I have a half remembered idea that Forward Artillery Observation Officers were in some cases mounted in Shermans that had a wooden barrel to allow for extra radios inside the turret. In which case an FAO could be targeted by an enemy unable to see inside the turret! Otherwise, what vehicles are FAO more usually mounted in?
You are correct for armoured units, also Cromwells. Infantry units by 43 were using carriers.
That's most helpful. If the FAO with armour gets too far forward I will allow the enemy to have a go. No HQ invulnerability for these gunners.
Quote from: holdfast on 20 January 2021, 12:23:30 PM
I have a half remembered idea that Forward Artillery Observation Officers were in some cases mounted in Shermans that had a wooden barrel to allow for extra radios inside the turret. In which case an FAO could be targeted by an enemy unable to see inside the turret! Otherwise, what vehicles are FAO more usually mounted in?
Remember that a Command 'unit' is actually a network - not just the individual in a specific vehicle. And at the level of extraction we are playing to, it makes no difference what vehicle the FAO or FAC is mounted in. Other than a glider/airborne delivered Command unit (of any type) it is not possible to deploy your command units inside another vehicle.
So if you want your FAO's mounted in a Sherman that is fine but it has no effect. But remember that a Command unit has pretty good saving throws and a strong defensive 'to-hit' factor anyway.
NB: I have some nice FAOs and FACs on bicycles and motorbikes :D
You can of course make a personal amendment to accommodate your targettable FAO/FAC or use the SCW 'Line Commander' rule to place your HQ within a targetable unit.
Quote from: Big Insect on 20 January 2021, 02:06:03 PM
NB: I have some nice FAOs and FACs on bicycles and motorbikes :D
Mark there is no way that an FAO and FAC could use vehicles that small, WWII radio kit was rather heavy, the 60's Larkspur series is bad enough, and the 18 set used by the Infantry was about 40 lbs in weight (20 kg).
FAC teams had an M5 and either a jeep or Dingo for transport. In N Africa it appears the FOO(FAO) had M3 Honies no idea about France. Reasonably certain that by 44 an Infantry Btn commander would have a Fire suport cell, made up of the Direct support Bty CO, Mortar Platoon CO and FAC if he had one. That is certainly the case in 60's and 70's and battle drills were certainly from 42. The artillery and air had to have close liason, Tiffes and shells don't mix well
Ian - you are ignoring my previous post.
on-table in BCK and CWC FAOs and FAC represent a network of communication - they do not have to have the heavy equipment you proscribe - in many instance on the Eastern Front (for example) the Soviets used runners or flags or even messenger dogs or pigeons to carry information back from a forward observer to the main communication centre. The actual FAO had no direct LoS to the target, it was plotted on a map.
But ultimately it is up to each player how they wish to depict their units ;)
NW Europe, some Valentine tanks as AOP, up to the end of the war.
I think I am with Ian on this one. The battle procedure didn't change much between the later stages of WW2 and the early 1970s. I cannot think of any fire support being directed from a motorcycle in this era. For me it has to look right whatever the level of abstraction is.
Even with the FOO in a tank it would be a rash gunner who ventured too far forward with just a broom handle instead of main armament, although I can recall some commanders who would have been happier if the tank barrel had had a bayonet on it.
Quote from: holdfast on 20 January 2021, 09:40:38 PM
I think I am with Ian on this one. The battle procedure didn't change much between the later stages of WW2 and the early 1970s. I cannot think of any fire support being directed from a motorcycle in this era. For me it has to look right whatever the level of abstraction is.
Even with the FOO in a tank it would be a rash gunner who ventured too far forward with just a broom handle instead of main armament, although I can recall some commanders who would have been happier if the tank barrel had had a bayonet on it.
With respect folks - this is all very Western European & late war in context. ;)
The Finns used FAO's with reeled telephone wires in the Winter War (as did German Paratroopers).
So you could have your FAO as a couple of guys on a snowy base, in winter camo, hidden in the snow, with a hand-cranked field telephone (hardly changed from WW1 issue) and a line of wire on the base, to depict this.
Germans & Russians used motorbikes to move FAOs on the eastern front and they operated in pairs and they were using back-pack sized field radios.
Chindits also used men on foot with back-pack radios in Burma jungle, as did the Japanese.
Chinese used runners with co=ordinates during the Manchurian War - they & the Japanese also used horse mounted messengers.
But I'd also point out that at the scale of abstraction we are playing to, your FAO (in his converted Sherman etc) is a single vehicle. When on the table top a single vehicle represents a full platoon.
But you can of course do as you wish folks - but the principle in the rules is that Command units (& that includes FAOs & FACs) cannot be targeted for direct fire or be the target for area fire.
Cheers
Mark
Surely the whole point of BKC and it's allied rulesets is that, so long as people know what the base represents, what's on it doesn't matter.
You can put your German FAO in a d**ned Maus if you want. It's still just an FAO with an FAO base's stats.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 21 January 2021, 03:54:24 AM
Surely the whole point of BKC and it's allied rulesets is that, so long as people know what the base represents, what's on it doesn't matter.
You can put your German FAO in a d**ned Maus if you want. It's still just an FAO with an FAO base's stats.
Thank you - that is exactly the case :D
Sherman on a round base maybe with a gun clipped a bit :) . Will help me use my over-supply of Shermans.