Hi
Just been watching 'Pointless' on the telebox. Regarding a question on WWII battles only 4 people out of a hundred asked had heard of the battle of Monte Cassino and not one had heard of the battle of Kohima.
Aarrrgh!!!! :-<
Paul
Quote from: T13A on 06 October 2020, 04:52:21 PM
Hi
Just been watching 'Pointless' on the telebox. Regarding a question on WWII battles only 4 people out of a hundred asked had heard of the battle of Monte Cassino and not one had heard of the battle of Kohima.
Aarrrgh!!!! :-<
Paul
Perhaps the moral of the story is not to spend time watching quiz shows on TV? Al ways bad for the blood pressure; I never do.
Yes agree 100% that the general publics knowledge of history and geography is not great and they should do better.
Not so much nowadays (thanks to the internet?) but occasionally in the past Kiwi's used to get a good laugh out of one of TVNZ's foreign correspondents standing on a street corner in (insert far away place here) and asking passers by "Where is NZ?"
Most answers seemed to involve us either being part of Australia or else being located somewhere off Alaska :o
If your watching Pointless and its not the final question I guess you can look on the bright side as they added 250 quid to the jackpot.....if they got the pointless answer correct.......and Richard will say "very well done indeed if you said any of those pointless answers at home".
Quote from: pierre the shy on 06 October 2020, 06:27:57 PM
Yes agree 100% that the general publics knowledge of history and geography is not great and they should do better.
I always refer people to the women I worked with who believed the Chinese attacked Pearl Harbour and the Russians used nuclear weapons against Japan.
I have to ask what relevance you think knowledge of Monte Cassino and Kohima has to the lives of all but a tiny fraction of the human population.
We have a niche interest in a niche subject. Be grateful for the four who had heard of Monte Cassino.
It's also a generational thing. My generation wouldn't know either unless they had an interest in military history even less so for those younger. For my kids the second world war may as well be Agincourt.
My mom on the other hand, brought up after the second world war would know both especially as my grandad served with the RAF in India.
Hmm. I WAS going to 'bristle my 'tache' in indignation...but...had a think.
I have no idea who fought whom in many of the major battles in the Napoleonic period, (The French fought SOMEBODY, pretty obviously...but... :(
Likewise, Ancients...The Greeks and the Romans DID enjoy a barney with anyone at hand...including Themselves! ;)
But, Who, Where, When is often 'out of MY niche. ' :(
One good thing about the current interest in 'Diversity', is that there are more TV prog's concerning battles in which Imperial/Colonial troops were vitally important..AND also the supporting roles. You just have to ignore the 'slant' that is often put on things and remember the service.
Having said that, given the multi-racial involvement in Cassino and Kohima...I agree with the thread Title! :(
But... for the young, the only 'shots' that interest, are the vile concoctions chucked down the neck to 'impress'. ;D Sheesh!, you would think they invented 'speed drinking'! ;D
(Having witnessed the effect of Vodka/Tequila 'Slammers', I will stick to getting smashed, slowly! ;)
I'm just so pleased they didn't ask a question on 1066 Hastings ...... the response may have been shocking!
but when all is said, if I was in the hot seat and asked a question on say ... football and you know how important that is, I would have to phone a friend :-)
anything harder than 'what shape is a ball' and I would just have to brave it out and say 'why, of course, Monte Cassino, there were 4 battles in total during early 1944, with a total loss to both sides of 75,000 casualties' and just hope that nobody notices.
The Lead Medal in my experience goes to the US trainee I once had on my hands who didn't know who Louis Armstrong or George Washington were. And she wanted to be a teacher!
I know I've told this tale before about one of 'my staff' in the figure painting unit at Workshop.
Everybody was busy painting when 'X' asked.
"Hitler, right......was he in the first World War ?"
"Yes, 'X'...he was a corporal."....Long pause.
"Oh......Was he in the second World War, as well ?" X_X
Cheers - Phil.
I'm frustrated by the the lack of basic knowledge of the likes of Louis Armstrong, George Washington, Hitler, who nuked Japan... ~X(
I'm also amazed by how much various people, including us, know about subjects we are interested in :o
Of the younger generation I worked with (those in their 20's now and early 30's) I can only say that from speaking to them their history curriculum was much less broad than when I was at secondary school in the 70's, so it is hard to blame them for lack of general history knowledge as they were simply not taught it. Also with emphasis on passing exams rather than learning, there was no opportunity to broaden one's education :(.
Quite right Steve. The National Curriculum, as far as history is concerned, might as well be called the Nationalist Curriculum (Politically Correct V3.6 ). Yes it covers topics like World War II, slavery, expansion of democracy etc. but very much from an ethno-centric point of view. Year 8 is the biggest joke - everything from the Wars of the Roses to the end of the C19th - farcical. At least that was the case up to my retirement in 2012. So those people are now in their early 20s through to their early 40s.
Hi
It was the fact was that people had never heard of them, given the anniversaries we have gone through over the last few years where both battles have been mentioned in the media (and frequently on days like remembrance day), that shocked/surprised me. I wasn't expecting people to know what happened there or even where they were for that matter.
Cheers Paul
Yes, It appals me too. But it is very tied into what you're interested in. The conversation in our house often goes like this
Mrs Orcs:- Did you see X (insert some author or classical musician) has Y (Y= died, has plague, been caught in-flagrante with a tortoise)
Orcs:- Who ?????
Mrs Orcs:- Yes you do!
Orcs:- No I don't
Mrs Orcs :- But you must know him he is famous for.......
Orcs:- Do you know who Georgy Zhukov is? , or Uylysses Grant ?
Mrs Orcs:- No I don't
Orcs:- So you don't know two famous people who had a huge impact the way the world is today, but you expect me to know some classical pianist ?
This normally ends the conversation , but as Ithoriel says it is wha you consider interesting and important that makes up a lot of your general knowledge
Yeah, we didn't really do much WW2 at school, a little in primary school at a very basic level, but 20th-century stuff seemed to be part of the GCSE level curriculum so if you didn't do History past 3rd year (which I didn't because I actually really liked history so didn't want to ruin it by doing History in school) you never really touched on it. I remember a lot about the Normans, Irish Potato Famine, and the Spanish Armada.
I always found mid-late 20th Centrury history hard to get into in my personal reading. I think partly due to there being so much information available, combined with the familiarity of it being recent enough to know people who remember it, and the overabundance of popular media on the subject. I probably have a better general knowledge than the average person, and I can pretty well tell "which war was that" when someone asks, but specific details of battles and armaments and so forth are still a mystery much of the time. I have been trying to rectify the knowledge gaps recently, working through a few resources on the period, but it still hasn't inspired the sort of devotion and knowledge many of you seem to have on the subject, just doesn't tickle my interest the way a lot of other history does (yet).
I confess I wouldn't really know much of anything about Monte Cassino and Kohima without googling them (which I did). Kohima rings a bell so I've probably heard it mentioned in broad overviews, but my more in-depth stuff only has me up to Moskow and Midway. And even then when doing broad sweeps of history remembering details of particular battles can be difficult. There are, after all, an awful lot of battles to take account of in the period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_battles!
I suspect many of those of your own generation who did cover it at school would still struggle to remember many of the details and names unless they kept up a continued interest in it over the years. I tend not to be too harsh on people not knowing the names of battles and the like, as others have said, it's a very niche interest, and a specific period of that nieche interest. The thing about history is there tends to be an awful lot of it, and we keep generating more and more of it every day. Very inconsiderate. So you can't really expect the average person to know about Kohlima, Kurekdere, Kineton, Kawanakajima or Kadesh when it has no real bearing on their lives or interests.
I think it's certainly important for people to have a broad understanding of the events and consequences of history, but getting hung up on details is a path to maddness.
Make Kermode tells a story of going to watch Apollo 13 with the (much younger) Radio 1 film critic, who had no idea it was based on a real-life event.
Quote from: Techno II on 07 October 2020, 06:24:18 AM
I know I've told this tale before about one of 'my staff' in the figure painting unit at Workshop.
Everybody was busy painting when 'X' asked.
"Hitler, right......was he in the first World War ?"
"Yes, 'X'...he was a corporal."....Long pause.
"Oh......Was he in the second World War, as well ?" X_X
Cheers - Phil.
... and by WW2 he'd been promoted to commander in chief, which is why he said "A Marshal's baton in every knapsack; guns and butter in every garage." I read it in Facebook so it must be true :D
Huuuummmm - atributing a French dictaors quotes to a German one, and mis-qotung the Fat Man - its guns before butter !
I have heard it said that the film 'The Madness of King George' was so called because it was feared that if it was called 'The Madness of George III' people would not go and see it, as they might think they'd missed 'The Madness of George II' and 'The Madness of George I'. Possibly apocryphal, but perfectly believable bearing in mind that 'the good sense of the public' is the political oxymoron of our time.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 06 October 2020, 07:29:52 PM
I have to ask what relevance you think knowledge of Monte Cassino and Kohima has to the lives of all but a tiny fraction of the human population.
We have a niche interest in a niche subject. Be grateful for the four who had heard of Monte Cassino.
Yes, as wargamers we tend to focus on battles more than the general public do.
;D
Some may thing King Ralph is a sequel.
Try asking Sunjester who bowled the Super Over for England in the 2019 World Cup Final.
Did someone mention the Fatman?
Quote from: Last Hussar on 07 October 2020, 05:57:43 PM
...bowled the Super Over....
Is this the same thing as the Superbowl?
I thought it referred to someone knocking a high ranking policeman over in a corridor ? :-\
That's a thought for a 'clip'......Can someone embed the video of Constable Savage, from the "Not the nine o'clock news" team. :)
Nothing to do with knocking anyone over...But..........
Cheers - Phil :)
=O =O =O =O =O =O =O
Absolute classic
Thanks, Nobby !
Cheers - Phil :)
'e's a villain, sir.
And a jailbird. ;)
Before anyone complains...........
Please don't get me wrong....I loathe racism, of any sort, to the Nth degree....and I could fully understand if some folk thought that this clip is/was very 'iffy'.
However......I think extracting the urine with comedy, sometimes gets 'the message' across better than anything else.
Cheers - Phil :)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 08 October 2020, 04:12:25 AM
Is this the same thing as the Superbowl?
It's far superior because it involves a sport played by at least four countries. ;)
Can a typical Superbowl fan name at least four countries?
Quote from: FierceKitty on 09 October 2020, 02:02:40 AM
Can a typical Superbowl fan name at least four countries?
Can any football fan, except Rugger, name 4 countries ?
Quote from: ianrs54 on 09 October 2020, 06:43:03 AM
Can any football fan, except Rugger, name 4 countries ?
Well yes, Football (soccer) is an international game, most teams have players from more than 4 countries, and the UEAFA, European and World cups are all huge international competitions.
Just been listening to a clip from the 'The only way is Essex', on the radio........Presumably they were visiting a zoo or safari park.
"Oh......Is that one an elephant ? "
"No...that one's a rhino...look...It's smaller."
:o :o :o :o :o
Gimme strength. X_X
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 08 October 2020, 08:53:03 PM
It's far superior because it involves a sport played by at least four countries. ;)
Ahh, the last remnants of Empire (see also rugby).
Quote from: Techno II on 09 October 2020, 07:07:14 AM
Just been listening to a clip from the 'The only way is Essex', on the radio........Presumably they were visiting a zoo or safari park.
"Oh......Is that one an elephant ? "
"No...that one's a rhino...look...It's smaller."
:o :o :o :o :o
Gimme strength. X_X
Cheers - Phil
I am very relieved that you were not actually watching it
I've never watched a single minute of it, Mark. :> :-bd
My knowledge of the prog comes virtually all from "I'm sorry, I haven't a clue," ripping the pee out of it.
Cheers - Phil :)
I am somewhat bemused at the number of people I have spoken to who are unaware of the existence of Hindus
I spent more than 30 years working with one.
I was engaged to one.
She was my 3rd fiancee.
The one that got away.
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 10 October 2020, 10:35:11 AM
I am somewhat bemused at the number of people I have spoken to who are unaware of the existence of Hindus
You used to see a lot of them in Liverpool on a Friday night. Group of women, trailing around in their glad rags, usually wearing sashes, and getting leery. One singled out with a tiara or a veil - usually without one shoe. At least one of them has her mascara streaked with tears.
Quote from: fsn on 10 October 2020, 12:43:25 PM
I was engaged to one.
She was my 3rd fiancee.
The one that got away.
Was she Pritti? I'll get me coat...
Quote from: Ben Waterhouse on 10 October 2020, 02:02:27 PM
Was she Pritti? I'll get me coat...
No but she did have a white stick (sorry Nobby couldn't resist it) :)
Quote from: Orcs on 10 October 2020, 02:23:36 PM
No but she did have a white stick (sorry Nobby couldn't resist it) :)
A white stick ?
Jeepers......and you haven't even noticed..... X_X
Cheers - Phil ;) :-*
Quote from: Ben Waterhouse on 10 October 2020, 02:02:27 PM
Was she Pritti? I'll get me coat...
She was wonderful. :(
Quote from: Orcs on 10 October 2020, 02:23:36 PM
No but she did have a white stick (sorry Nobby couldn't resist it) :)
Frequently
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 10 October 2020, 10:35:11 AM
I am somewhat bemused at the number of people I have spoken to who are unaware of the existence of Hindus
Q: What's a Hundu?
A: Lay Eggs.
Attributed to Bran: Jester at the court of Caratacus.
"Pass me the hammerfor!"
"What's a hammerfor?"
"Knockin' in nails!"
From my grandfather, a Foreman of Joiners at a couple of Naval Dockyards in times gone by.
I felt "Holding My Head in Despair" was an appropriate thread for this :)
https://youtu.be/URyAFqzRrKE
;D ;D ;D
Thank you for that.
I love Rachel Parris. She needs more exposure.
And no I don't mean Playboy.
Although ... :-\
Very good.
Cheers - Phil :)
Not sure what to make of this
Looks pretty historical to me :D
There's a follow up - Baahubali War: The Conclusion. I'm sure it's every bit as historical. Especially liked the horse powered Cuisinart and the "fire-blankets" :)
The films were phenomenally successful.
First came across this when looking for info about the Indus Valley Civilisation. I preferred Mohenjo-Daro myself but then what do I know about the cinema of the Indian Sub-continent?
THAT's how to do Scythed chariots.
Compare with the puny failing Persian/Seleucid ones.
The 2 connected projectile trick has been attempted several times, and always failed to coordinate the launches closely enough.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 12 October 2020, 08:18:59 PM
THAT's how to do Scythed chariots.
Compare with the puny failing Persian/Seleucid ones.
I am pretty sure it was inspired by
That was quite fun ......What's that from then ? :)
I presume it has the word 'Dead' in the title.
Cheers - Phil
It's an actual Mel Gibson retelling of the Welsh fighting off the Normans in Pembroke, Phil ;)
Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness.
Thanks, Nathan. :-bd
I don't think I ever even saw the first one, let alone "2" and "3".....Which is strange, as those were the types of films that I'd have probably enjoyed 'back then'. :D
Cheers - Phil :)
The original is a "proper" horror-splatter film.
Two is a comedy reworking of it, and three extends that :)
There's also rather a good series come out in the last couple of years, Ash vs the Evil Dead (IIRC).
The second one is the best of the bunch for my money, as III is a bit self referential and over the top with silliness ;)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 12 October 2020, 05:49:49 PM
First came across this when looking for info about the Indus Valley Civilisation. I preferred Mohenjo-Daro myself but then what do I know about the cinema of the Indian Sub-continent?
If it is not on your shelf I thoroughly recommend borrowing from the library
In Search of the Cradle of Civilization by Feuerstein, Bak & Frawley.
Quote from: hammurabi70 on 14 October 2020, 08:16:40 AM
If it is not on your shelf I thoroughly recommend borrowing from the library In Search of the Cradle of Civilization by Feuerstein, Bak & Frawley.
Bizarrely, having mentioned Mohenjo Daro, I did a quick sweep of the net to see if there was anything interesting on the city itself of the IVC in general and came across a second hand copy of this. It's due to arrive Monday. Synchronicity? :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 14 October 2020, 01:52:29 PM
Bizarrely, having mentioned Mohenjo Daro, I did a quick sweep of the net to see if there was anything interesting on the city itself of the IVC in general and came across a second hand copy of this. It's due to arrive Monday. Synchronicity? :)
Synchronicity indeed! :D