I am trying to create armies potentially involved in UK conflicts 900 – 1000 AD: Anglo-Saxon / Anglo-Danish, Norman, Pre Feudal Scottish, Viking, Welsh, Norse-Irish.
The Dark Ages ranges are short of some figures and I have been looking at other ranges for potential candidates.
For PF Scottish ARL 6 unarmoured with a mix of weapons for a 'warband' (Galwegians)? and ELM 19 Gallowglass?
For Norse-Irish ELM 12 Irish Bonnachts?, ELM 13 Irish Kerns? and ELM 19 Gallowglass?
For Welsh - ELM8 Welsh spearmen? Cavalry ?
Also there are various figures in the Late Roman which could be used? ARL 10 & 16 militia, ARL 12 unarmoured cavalry, ARL 18 Arthurian figures.
Comments & recommendations please.
Thanks Andrew
I've used ELM19 in my Crusader heavy infantry and would use the Irish and Welsh units for lighter troops too so that would work well.
The Elizabethan range also has some Gallowglass and kerns for variety.
The TB Line may be worth a look, most of them are later period medieval but some of the peasants may work for you.
Late Roman is a good one for Romano-British.
There are those who say the UK didn't exist during the Dark Ages...unless you mean the Thatcher years?
Initially I thought the post was for 2026-2040 armies for the upcoming New Dark Ages.... 8)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 07 September 2020, 10:00:43 AM
There are those who say the UK didn't exist during the Dark Ages...unless you mean the Thatcher years?
Ok say The Anglo Irish Archipeligo - just for the pedantic birthday Kitty.
For heavy scots cavalry, I used Later Roman cavalry, mix of armour and unarmoured.
Norman's mixed up work well for elite horse.
Viking and Saxon heavy foot for front ranks of Scots and Irish, as well as their own armies...
Naked gallic foot for galowglas.
Saxon militia in the Late Roman Range also bulk out units nicely too.
Pict range is excellent - I had them made... ;)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 07 September 2020, 10:00:43 AM
There are those who say the UK didn't exist during the Dark Ages...unless you mean the Thatcher years?
I think GridGame means British Isles.
I try not to get too pedantic these days since there are so many permutations.
Pro Tip: Centenary of UK's current borders coming up next year.
Thanks for all the helpful tips.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 07 September 2020, 09:19:49 PM
I think GridGame means British Isles.
I try not to get too pedantic these days since there are so many permutations.
Pro Tip: Centenary of UK's current borders coming up next year.
Quite right. There were two islands inhabited by Ancient Britons (language was P or Q Celtic) 1. The smaller island (Britain) what we now call Ireland and the bigger or greater island was .....Great Britain. :)
This lecture always confused my American exchange students.
Copplestone castings do a nice range of 10mm Horse Tribe Infantry which pass muster for Anglo/Saxons - 36 figures for £5.75- if you ever want to stretch the period?
1. P Celtic is today's Welsh , Q Celtic is gaelic.
Quote from: Sunray on 14 September 2020, 09:08:21 PM
Copplestone castings do a nice range of 10mm Horse Tribe Infantry which pass muster for Anglo/Saxons - 36 figures for £5.75- if you ever want to stretch the period?
They also make excellent Goths - the Germanic tribe rather than the dark clothes and depressed demeanour type :)
I think we should write a massed petition to Copplestone asking for more 10mm.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 15 September 2020, 01:23:31 AM
I think we should write a massed petition to Copplestone asking for more 10mm.
Unlike Pendraken they don't run a forum with requests. :)
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 07 September 2020, 09:19:49 PM
I think GridGame means British Isles.
I try not to get too pedantic these days since there are so many permutations.
Pro Tip: Centenary of UK's current borders coming up next year.
I also try not to get too pedantic, but I do get mildly irritated when "Anglo" is used to mean the UK. e.g. Concorde was an Anglo-French project.
The use of "Team GB" at the Olympics is also an anomaly. Do the Northern Irish athletes not count then?
Quote from: FierceKitty on 15 September 2020, 01:23:31 AM
I think we should write a massed petition to Copplestone asking for more 10mm.
Copplestone look like excellent figures, but not seen any in the flesh. Think he designed these to go with the Battle of Five Armies game that GW (briefly) released?
Quote from: Raider4 on 15 September 2020, 11:32:54 AM
Copplestone look like excellent figures, but not seen any in the flesh. Think he designed these to go with the Battle of Five Armies game that GW (briefly) released?
That's interesting. They are neat sculpts as you would expect. I discovered them when enticed by
The Last Kingdom and recerating the shield wall.
The Saxon-Dane wars of the Heptarchy was a brief distraction before being lured back to Bush Wars.
This winter I may again flirt with Uhtred and his Arselings.
I use a handful as medievals and a few Alans. They're painfully few, but lovely sculpts that go well with Pendrakens too.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 15 September 2020, 01:23:31 AM
I think we should write a massed petition to Copplestone asking for more 10mm.
This has been asked on LAF. It seems very unlikely. Which is a shame as they are some great figures.
I don't think the Copplestone figures are designed to go with the BoFA game. The BoFA figures are pretty small - the copplestone ones are fairly typical 10mm size.
Quote from: fred. on 15 September 2020, 05:26:57 PM
I don't think the Copplestone figures are designed to go with the BoFA game.
Hmmm . . . You don't think the Horse Tribe figures are Rohan? The City humans are Gondor? Does the makeup of the Heroes & Halflings pack remind you of any particular expedition rather famous in the fantasy genre?
(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img193.jpg)
Image presumably copyright of Copplestone Castings
Yes, the figures are clearly for Lord of the Rings gaming. I just don't think they are particularly to go with the GW BoFA game.
Right. I hereby give warning that I am going to break Forum protocol in terms of hijacking a thread.
But only in a "very specific and limited way", as is now the practice in our Mother of Parliaments, so it must be OK?
I was surfing the Copplestone site, and clicked on the "Future wars range" . Loved the civilians and the military sub ranges.
Some years ago - on the recommendation of Grumpy Old Man (Victor to his friends), I purchased the Drop Zone Commander Ruinscape. Its an instant coffee urban highrise landscape. Lots of fun from Stalingrad via Budapest to Third World Capitals. Not to mention Si-Fi
Would there be demand for a small range of late 21st century style figures that would be of the Future wars genre, and compliment the Zombie range?
Sweet work by Techno! His sculpts are good enough to depict character figures in 10mm.
You just broke thew major rule - ypu were nice to Phil !
Quote from: ianrs54 on 16 September 2020, 11:29:50 AM
You just broke thew major rule - ypu were nice to Phil !
;D
Quote from: ianrs54 on 16 September 2020, 11:29:50 AM
You just broke thew major rule - ypu were nice to Phil !
'Bout time someone was.
Cheers - Phil ;)
Well, bribe us with some T'ang....
Quote from: Techno on 16 September 2020, 02:45:31 PM
'Bout time someone was.
Cheers - Phil ;)
You have a bias here Lewis ;)
Quote from: ianrs54 on 16 September 2020, 03:26:14 PM
You have a bias here Lewis ;)
Who me ?......Damn sauce ! ;)
'Ere......What 'age' are Goths/Visigoths ?
I made some of those about three years ago.....
Leon could have those.....But three figures aren't going to make a range.
I made a whole load of figures for firm 'X'...which I got paid for...then made the mistake of making a lot of others, which I knew were 'in the pipeline', to get in front of myself.
They'll be sitting gathering dust forever now. :( =)
Cheers - Phil (Hey, Ho ;))
The Goths were enemies of the Later Roman Empire from the last quarter of the 4th century CE to around the middle of the 5th. They are broadly split in two sub-parts, the Ostrogoths (East Goths) and Visigoths (West Goths). The Visigoths wound up ruling Spain until displaced by the Arab conquest.
Ostrogoth armies tended to be cavalry with spears/ lances/ javelins and infantry archers while Visigoth armies tend to have spear armed foot. both would have units of noble cavalry.
Quote from: Sunray on 16 September 2020, 10:31:47 AM
Right. I hereby give warning that I am going to break Forum protocol in terms of hijacking a thread.
But only in a "very specific and limited way", as is now the practice in our Mother of Parliaments, so it must be OK?
I was surfing the Copplestone site, and clicked on the "Future wars range" . Loved the civilians and the military sub ranges.
Some years ago - on the recommendation of Grumpy Old Man (Victor to his friends), I purchased the Drop Zone Commander Ruinscape. Its an instant coffee urban highrise landscape. Lots of fun from Stalingrad via Budapest to Third World Capitals. Not to mention Si-Fi
Would there be demand for a small range of late 21st century style figures that would be of the Future wars genre, and compliment the Zombie range?
Sweet work by Techno! His sculpts are good enough to depict character figures in 10mm.
I don't believe it!!! My hi-jack was.......hi-jacked !! :o
Quote from: Sunray on 16 September 2020, 10:31:47 AM
Right. I hereby give warning that I am going to break Forum protocol in terms of hijacking a thread.
:o :o :-/ :-/
I thought hijacking a thread
was the rule ;D
Quote from: paulr on 16 September 2020, 08:03:52 PM
:o :o :-/ :-/
I thought hijacking a thread was the rule ;D
+1 ;D
Quote from: Techno on 16 September 2020, 03:33:59 PM
Who me ?......Damn sauce ! ;)
'Ere......What 'age' are Goths/Visigoths ?
I made some of those about three years ago.....
Leon could have those.....But three figures aren't going to make a range.
I made a whole load of figures for firm 'X'...which I got paid for...then made the mistake of making a lot of others, which I knew were 'in the pipeline', to get in front of myself.
They'll be sitting gathering dust forever now. :( =)
Cheers - Phil (Hey, Ho ;))
Some of the Picts do well as Goths too, and Magister Militum also have some. A Gothic army is easy to assemble; they make up about a third of my Huns, and a fair whack of my late Romans as well.
Quote from: paulr on 16 September 2020, 08:03:52 PM
:o :o :-/ :-/
I thought hijacking a thread was the rule ;D
I wonder how many threads of three or four pages (or more) haven't gone off at a tangent, at
least once ! ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil ;)
Quote from: Techno on 17 September 2020, 05:52:58 AM
I wonder how many threads of three or four posts (or more) haven't gone off at a tangent, at least once ! ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil ;)
FIFY :)
I knew some reenactors who insisted that the warriors of each nation looked essentially the same.
The whole "Vikings with eyeglass helmets and Normans with noseguards" was down to different centuries of helmet tech - they said.
It certainly fits with the Sutton Hoo dig being "Saxon".
A couple of points to expand on this.
The Warriors may have looked similar, this doesn't apply for the levies who would complete the shieldwall and supply skirmishers.
In the event of a raid (Much more common than an all-out war) the attackers would be mainly warriors, and only the home-team would have their levies and skirmishers in significant numbers.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 18 September 2020, 07:27:57 AM
I knew some reenactors who insisted that the warriors of each nation looked essentially the same.
The whole "Vikings with eyeglass helmets and Normans with noseguards" was down to different centuries of helmet tech - they said.
It certainly fits with the Sutton Hoo dig being "Saxon".
A couple of points to expand on this.
The Warriors may have looked similar, this doesn't apply for the levies who would complete the shieldwall and supply skirmishers.
In the event of a raid (Much more common than an all-out war) the attackers would be mainly warriors, and only the home-team would have their levies and skirmishers in significant numbers.
The home team is likely to be the local lord with his hearthguard and a lot of local levies facing a smaller but but better armed and trained band of
thugs warriors.
The Sutton Hoo helmet is more Late Roman than anything else.
I suspect the reason many "sword and board" historical dramas on TV and film have so much fantasy armour is because the film makers took one look at the historical outfits and went,"how will the audience know who is who?"
Movie/TV potrayal is a hostage of budget/props. Its not just a sword & board dilemma.
How many WW2 movies starred the M3 Americam Halftrack as German? Patton tanks proxied for Tigers in the Battle of the Bulge, A US Warship for Graf Spee etc.
Bridge too far has a modern German Leopard I proxy for a Panther.
Only as museums and re-enactment groups invested in more engine restoration did we get treated to real "runners".
With the end of communism we got modern version of the Sd Kfz 251 - the OT810 which was often restored to the WW2 version.