I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good book (or 2) about British armour in the Korean conflict?
Our resident Centurion aficionado perhaps?
Can't think of any speific books on British armour in the Korean War. the Cents arrived in the second wave and were Mk 3's. The Canadians used M4A3E8 and M36's. Inital British armour was from Hong Kong garrison equiped with de-flamed Churchill VII Crocodiles, because they were there. There were also some Cromwells attatched to the Centurion Rgt (probably 9?) as recce vehicles - one of which was captured by the Chinese and dispatched by a Cent. As far as I know that was the only Chinese manned tank encoutered by the British.
Hope that helps
IanS
I don't have one specifically on Korean War armour.
I think Mark Felton says most of it in 4 minutes 20 seconds.
Thanks chaps!
Mr. Felton is usually my first stop on YouTube if I am looking at something military, so have seen that excellent video.
looks like the general stuff I have will have to do
What are you looking for? Histories or technicals?
I suspect both ?
A general coverage is Vangaurd 27 - armour of the Korean War - note NOT new vanguard.
Yes a bit of both - preferably with some "people who were there"-type anecdotes
Was reading some US recollections and they were always amazed at where the Cents could get to in terrain that was definitely NOT tank friendly.
Research for a possible new period to wargame and stuff to inspire/persuade a mate to join me!
Well there's Armoured Warfare in the Korean War, from the Images of War Series (Anthony Tucker-Jones, Pen and Sword, 2012)
I have British Forces in the Korean War (Cunningham-Booth and Farrar, British Koreans Veterans Association, 1988) which is probably a bit hard to get hold of. Lots of personal stories, but not much in the tankie world
Similarly British Soldiers in the Korean War (Stephen F Kelly, History Press 2012) doesn't talk a lot about tanks.
The books I have about Centurions skip over Korea in a couple of pages.
This is an interesting read - though it is by a Kiwi.
http://antipodeanarmour.blogspot.com/p/centurion-tanks-in-korea-report-by-lt-j.html
(http://antipodeanarmour.blogspot.com/p/centurion-tanks-in-korea-report-by-lt-j.html)
If find something, let me know!
See the Firing Now! article.
https://www.krh.org.uk/uploads/4/5/0/9/45090939/newsletter_for_website_2016.pdf (https://www.krh.org.uk/uploads/4/5/0/9/45090939/newsletter_for_website_2016.pdf)
Loved the NZer report!
Thanks
I've made a start on the Kiwi's report and am definitely enjoying his candor ;)
Quote from: paulr on 31 August 2020, 09:57:50 PM
I've made a start on the Kiwi's report and am definitely enjoying his candor ;)
Well the NZ Army must have been suitably impressed by the report to buy at least one squadron's worth of them in the mid 50's (11 in total).....because if you drive past the NZ Army Museum at Waiouru you will see this sight.......
(https://live.staticflickr.com/500/32352631550_d3433224a7_c.jpg)
and if you go a bit further north (on a good day) you will see this......
(https://live.staticflickr.com/647/32578931412_ea44ba32e1_c.jpg)
Interestingly the report specifically mentions not traversing the gun like that, at least not to pitch a bivvy over ;D
Quote from: fsn on 31 August 2020, 04:55:15 PM
...
This is an interesting read - though it is by a Kiwi.
http://antipodeanarmour.blogspot.com/p/centurion-tanks-in-korea-report-by-lt-j.html
(http://antipodeanarmour.blogspot.com/p/centurion-tanks-in-korea-report-by-lt-j.html)...
Having finished the report I can strongly recommend it, allowances must however be made for the time it was written when it comes to some of the phraseology
I agree a most enjoyable report - I like the idea of Centurions climbing 1:2 gradient hills in low gear at 2mph but always getting to the top in the end.
Similarly the bunker-busting capabilities of the 20iber was insightful.
The descriptors of the enemy as Mr Chow, Mr WU and Joe was also illuminating. Every conflict has it's slang for the opponents !
Odd gearing on the Cent - 18 MPH cross country, and 20.8 on a road. The Cheiftain was similar, I've seen working ones go steaming past M60's leaving thenm for dead cross country, and could keep up with Leo I
Untill they ran out of fuel I believe :D
Quote from: pierre the shy on 01 September 2020, 07:44:27 AM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/500/32352631550_d3433224a7_c.jpg)
There's lovely!
Quote from: fsn on 01 September 2020, 08:27:54 PM
There's lovely!
Glad you liked it FSN :) Been past the Army Museum fairly regularly since the 1980's (its on the main road between Auckland and Wellington) and have say they keep their outdoor exhibits very well maintained. Waiouru is home to the NZ Army's main training area. Maybe they get the guys on the RSM's ***t list to polish the tanks rather than paint stones white or scrub the entire parade ground with a toothbrush?
Quote from: Big Insect on 01 September 2020, 05:32:56 PM
Untill they ran out of fuel I believe :D
Didn't they have detachable fuel trailers for the early Centurions back in the 1950's? mind you have you seen the fuel consumption figures for an American M1? gallons per mile rather than miles per gallon :o
Yes, mono wheeled trailers. Basically only used by the Sweedes. Mk7 onwards had an extra fuel tank added at the rear, which went some way to aleviating the problem. It may well have been fitted to the Mk 5's during the various uprgades. And no I am not going to go through those.
The Dutch also had those fuel trailers according to a book I have. That would be Centurion Mk 5/2 (with 105mm gun) and monotrailer 900 litre.
Apparently the swedes added the trailer, rear fuel tank and changed the drinking water tank to carry fuel too!
(they also converted then to diesel engines.) Think the Swedish may have had issues with the Cent's fuel economy...
Quote from: pierre the shy on 02 September 2020, 07:18:16 AM
mind you have you seen the fuel consumption figures for an American M1? gallons per mile rather than miles per gallon
Gas turbine engine. Uses a butt-load of fuel even when idling. Also gives out a lovely hot-spot for those infra-red missiles to latch onto.
Quote from: OldenBUA on 03 September 2020, 09:10:31 AM
The Dutch also had those fuel trailers according to a book I have. That would be Centurion Mk 5/2 (with 105mm gun) and monotrailer 900 litre.
Any pictures of both the Swedish and/or the Dutch trailers would be greatly appreciated - my 6mm Dutch & Swedes could always do with a bit of conversion.
Cheers
Mark
Dutch Centurion monotrailer
https://imgur.com/a/UhnHr4o
A google search for those terms will get you several more. Apparently there is a Centurion with trailer at the National Military Museum at Soesterberg in the Netherlands.
A genuinely serious question. (From a thicky)
How many gallons/litres did a 'tank' use to travel a mile/kilometre ?
Cheers - Phil (I imagine it was horrendous.)
Depends on the vehicle, you could try googling it, but with most it isn't Km per l, rather l per km. These are big heavy vehicles crossing rough terrain Phil, which is why the art of generalship is logistics, not tactics. For a T62 its 450 knm on roads and 320 Cc, with roughly 1000 l of fuel, using 3-3.3 l per km on a road. (It's T62 cause thats where my 83 copy of Janes AFVs fell open)
Hope that helps.
IanS
No, Ian....That's absolutely fine, Matey :)
As you infer, the logistics must have been absolutely mind bending. :o :o...Even 'back then'.
It 'sort of makes sense' that the British army are thinking of 'getting rid' of tanks, from a recent 'news report'.
There must be very few areas of the World where they'd actually be of any use, (logistically) nowadays.
Thanks (& Cheers) - Phil :)
Quote from: OldenBUA on 03 September 2020, 01:27:47 PM
Dutch Centurion monotrailer
https://imgur.com/a/UhnHr4o
A google search for those terms will get you several more. Apparently there is a Centurion with trailer at the National Military Museum at Soesterberg in the Netherlands.
Very distinctive ... I can feel a modelling urge coming on
Many thanks
Mark