I haven't got much time to paint last couple of weeks. That's always dangerous as it just gives me time to think about what other projects I could be doing or expansions to current ones... X_X
At the weekend my dad gave me an old book of his, "Great Battles of the Last Two Centuries" (or something to that effect), and while flicking through he mentioned he'd always wanted a Waterloo Chess Set. The main thing stopping him was my mum not being particularly keen on him displaying it anywhere, plus having a look online the prices can be somewhat eye-watering.
I'm thinking it might be quite a fun DIY project to do at some point and gift to him when it's complete. And if it's a gift, carefully handcrafted by her own son, mum can hardly complain about it being displayed anywhere... :d
I've actually long wanted to make a chess set, going back many years before I got into wargaming. I was also planning to get into Napoleonic history a bit more next year a bit more with a look to maybe dipping my toes in the period. So this might be a good way to get into the history without being daunted by a massive project, and also a way to try and improve my painting on larger scale models.
So I'm putting this out there as a fishing expedition for some ideas and thoughts from you wise, wonderful, and weird people.
1) What scale of models should I go for? I'm thinking 54mm might be a good size for chess pieces and lots of details.
2) Any recommended manufacturers? I see irregular do a nice range of 54mm, all individuals as well, so that's likely a good starting point.
3) What should represent different pieces?
a) Pawns - I think this should be line infantry, possibly kneeling to make them seem a bit smaller though standing would be fine too.
b) Kings - Napoleon and Wellington are pretty obvious choices here.
c) Queens - I'm not sure if I should do a prim and proper 19th Century lady here, or one of the leading generals or allies to keep a more militaristic theme. Any thoughts/suggestions?
d) Knights - some form of rearing cavalry would be ideal I reckon
e) Bishops - could find some sort of religious model, but thinking maybe a Standard Bearer would be a good option here to get some pretty flags on the board (and the flag pole is kind of like the pointy hat).
f) Rook - artillery of some form might work well, though fitting it on a base the same size as the troops could be difficult. Possibly angled high. Drummer is another option, though leaning more torwards heavy ordanance.
4) The board - have a few options here. Could just purchase a reasonably nice one, though they are pricy. Alternatively could see about getting access to some power tools and make my own with a mix of woods. Or another thought I had was to make a nice digital print or even hand-painted piece of the battlefield itself, with somewhat transparent squares mapped out on it, then possibly embed that in a wooden frame with a glass covering. Or even a few thick layers of gloss varnish if glass would be too prone to smudgy fingerprints.
5) The bases - likely want a good thick plinth base, maybe 1-2 cms tall. Probably some sort of felt or soft material on the base to protect the board and reduce too much "clacking".
Anything I've forgotten? Or any good ideas anyone can suggest?
Remember that all of one set of pieces will be French and that the other set will mostly be German speaking and a few English/Irish/Scots.
Not to mention Dutch/Belgiums
I made a chess set with my dad. We made the board ourselves.
What about mixing scales? Use 28mm for pawns? You could make each pawn a separate unit - 95th Rifles, Hanoverian Landwehr, etc.
Artillery is the queen of the Battlefield, so I would suggest horse artillery as the queen; the rook is a castle, so perhaps a sapper or a gambion to suggest siegecraft. Like the idea of a standard bearer for the bishop.
For the bases I would suggest that these be coloured for each side to make them visually different.
Please post photos of a work in progress.
I would take a look at the Prince August Chess sets. They are in 54mm and can be bought in both painted and Antique Pewter finish. You can also buy the molds if you fancied casting them yourself.
They also do nice chessboards thet will take the pieces underneath.
I have had a look but cannot seem to find any prices, so you may need to contact them.
https://shop.princeaugust.ie/antique-finished-pewter-chess-sets/
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 24 August 2020, 01:56:54 PM
Remember that all of one set of pieces will be French and that the other set will mostly be German speaking and a few English/Irish/Scots.
Quote from: ianrs54 on 24 August 2020, 02:20:23 PM
Not to mention Dutch/Belgiums
I'll probably keep it mostly French and British for simplicity's sake to keep it reasonably clear on a chessboard. But if it proves successful could be fun to do a Prussian set of figures too. And a mixed force with Dutch, etc. And then of course have to sort out some sort of storage and display case for it all....
Quote from: fsn on 24 August 2020, 02:58:14 PM
I made a chess set with my dad. We made the board ourselves.
How did you do the board? I've seen some do it with two different woods, while others just opt for painting or etching.
Quote from: fsn on 24 August 2020, 02:58:14 PM
What about mixing scales? Use 28mm for pawns? You could make each pawn a separate unit - 95th Rifles, Hanoverian Landwehr, etc.
I did see some examples of mixed scales when I was googling about to see what others had done. I'm not quite sure if it'll look right though. It's one of those ones I probably just need to get some models and try out to see how it'll look. On the separate units, I'm just not sure if that'll make it a bit too "confusing" on a chess board. If you're playing someone who isn't necessarily aware of the difference in uniforms, having pawns all looking quite different might get in the way of the game. When I end up doing a Napoleonics wargaming project (it's ineveitable...) I'll be able to satisfy all those different uniforms and units, but on a chess board I think it's nice to have a balance between visual appeal and easy piece recognition.
Quote from: fsn on 24 August 2020, 02:58:14 PM
Artillery is the queen of the Battlefield, so I would suggest horse artillery as the queen; the rook is a castle, so perhaps a sapper or a gambion to suggest siegecraft. Like the idea of a standard bearer for the bishop.
That's quite an interesting idea. Thanks.
Quote from: fsn on 24 August 2020, 02:58:14 PM
For the bases I would suggest that these be coloured for each side to make them visually different.
Yeah I was thinking of just doing a soft dark green on the bases, if the uniforms are all...well...uniform enough to tell them apart. But a band of blue or red around the bases might be sensible too.
Quote from: fsn on 24 August 2020, 02:58:14 PM
Please post photos of a work in progress.
I will of course, though in truth it'll likely be a while before I get started on it. Just gathering thoughts and ideas for the moment, then will maybe get a few sample figures in the next month or two to try out.
Quote from: Orcs on 24 August 2020, 03:04:40 PM
I would take a look at the Prince August Chess sets. They are in 54mm and can be bought in both painted and Antique Pewter finish. You can also buy the molds if you fancied casting them yourself.
They also do nice chessboards thet will take the pieces underneath.
I have had a look but cannot seem to find any prices, so you may need to contact them.
https://shop.princeaugust.ie/antique-finished-pewter-chess-sets/
Nice find, I'd not come across those before. Odd that they've no way of seeing pricing for the sets (yet there is for the boards). I'll maybe drop them a line sometime. Thanks.
I made one for my father many years ago and I now have it. 54MM Kings and Queens, 40mm (?) bishops, knights and rooks and 25mm pawns. I sent 3 photos to Leon and asking him to post for me. Hopefully they came through.
You can google and find plenty of ideas online. No doubt you will have some of your own.
Knights normally have some cavalry piece but I have seen rooks as Martello towers, artillery and even ships. The queen gives a chance for less usual battlefield figures such as lady in ball gown or other period piece. Generals seem popular as bishops with the C in C, of course, being the appropriate 'big man'. Flags seem to get used as anything from King to atop a castle as a rook. Remember that figures do not have be identical twins so each one can be customised to a small degree; even pawns can be individual characters.
But why Waterloo? What about Hastings? At least you have clerics for bishops! Not sure how you would do Trafalgar or the Battle of Britain. Duke of Parma against Queen Elizabeth? English Civil War? This could get addictive!
Beware it will !
You could even use 10mm figures, but have several per piece, mounted on a base tall enough to be picked up easily. Perhaps an upturned Colour Party Paint jar or similar. You could then go town painting motifs or flags or whatever on the holding base.
Then you could make it more of a wargame by allowing each side to move 1D6 pieces a turn..... 8)
Mark
Quote from: kipt on 24 August 2020, 04:07:25 PM
I made one for my father many years ago and I now have it. 54MM Kings and Queens, 40mm (?) bishops, knights and rooks and 25mm pawns. I sent 3 photos to Leon and asking him to post for me. Hopefully they came through.
I just posted a guide to uploading pics if you fancy a try yourself. http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,20026.msg308422/topicseen.html#msg308422. If not I await Leons post with anticipation. The three scales might work well as it's less of a dramatic step down in size.
Quote from: hammurabi70 on 24 August 2020, 04:41:40 PM
But why Waterloo? What about Hastings? At least you have clerics for bishops! Not sure how you would do Trafalgar or the Battle of Britain. Duke of Parma against Queen Elizabeth? English Civil War? This could get addictive!
There's certainly endless possibilities. I've a set of 28mm Romans and Gauls languishing in their starter box I'd a half notion to do something similar with at one point.
Quote from: sultanbev on 24 August 2020, 08:51:43 PM
You could even use 10mm figures, but have several per piece, mounted on a base tall enough to be picked up easily. Perhaps an upturned Colour Party Paint jar or similar. You could then go town painting motifs or flags or whatever on the holding base.
Then you could make it more of a wargame by allowing each side to move 1D6 pieces a turn..... 8)
Mark
;D
If not using kneeling figs for Pawns, dropping down a scale to 40mm for them sounds like a good idea to me (e.g., Sash & Sabre?).
Bishops: A Bishop's pointy hat is called a mitre and 18th Century Grenadiers often wore mitre caps. But these tended to be replaced by other headgear by the time of the Napoleonic Wars ...... e.g., bearskin caps. So how about Old Guard Grenadier figures for French Bishops and Highlanders with feather bonnet for the Allies?
Queens: As for your standard bearer figures idea you could then consider that for your Queens? Or if you can find a 54mm equivalent, how about the magnificent 'French Sapper, advancing shouldered axe in bearskin cap' in Perry's 40mm Peninsular range - one "L'Enforceur" figure might make a good Queen piece! Same goes for the Brits but if you can't find an equivalent sapper figure, perhaps a Sharpe figure for the Brits?
Artillery pieces somehow seem right for Rooks but as these may take up too much space, drummers sound good to me, the shape of the drum evoking memories of the round shape of a conventional Castle chess piece.
Looking forward to seeing what you finally decide. Good luck! :)
Quote from: Westmarcher on 24 August 2020, 10:39:47 PM
If not using kneeling figs for Pawns, dropping down a scale to 40mm for them sounds like a good idea to me (e.g., Sash & Sabre?).
Bishops: A Bishop's pointy hat is called a mitre and 18th Century Grenadiers often wore mitre caps. But these tended to be replaced by other headgear by the time of the Napoleonic Wars ...... e.g., bearskin caps. So how about Old Guard Grenadier figures for French Bishops and Highlanders with feather bonnet for the Allies?
Queens: As for your standard bearer figures idea you could then consider that for your Queens? Or if you can find a 54mm equivalent, how about the magnificent 'French Sapper, advancing shouldered axe in bearskin cap' in Perry's 40mm Peninsular range - one "L'Enforceur" figure might make a good Queen piece! Same goes for the Brits but if you can't find an equivalent sapper figure, perhaps a Sharpe figure for the Brits?
Artillery pieces somehow seem right for Rooks but as these may take up too much space, drummers sound good to me, the shape of the drum evoking memories of the round shape of a conventional Castle chess piece.
Looking forward to seeing what you finally decide. Good luck! :)
Some really interesting ideas here. The use of Old Guard and Highlanders is very very tempting given how iconic they are. Standard bearer as Queen is then a viable option, the Queen being the most powerful and mobile unit the standard bearer can be seen as the manifestation of the General/King's will on the battlefield where it's most needed. That figure of the sapper is fantastic, very imposing. Could also work as a rook as suggested previously if artillery pieces don't work out. Thanks!
Heard from Leon and he will post for me.
And this is just in case he can't use my first post.
EDIT: Pics added!
That looks great!
Absolutely cracking ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil :)
I was lucky to inherit one of these: https://chessantiques.com/product/waterloo-chess-set/
Maybe worth to look at the pics on that site, has a detailed list of what is used for each piece.
Quote from: petercooman on 25 August 2020, 11:56:18 PM
I was lucky to inherit one of these: https://chessantiques.com/product/waterloo-chess-set/
Maybe worth to look at the pics on that site, has a detailed list of what is used for each piece.
That's a great resource, thanks.
Many moons ago
I built a Waterloo chess set, in 28mm used line infantry for pawns.
then different types for the other positions. I got a big piece of toughened glass and etched it
placing a Celtic design in the black squares and around the edge.
all bases then had some of that protective matting you get for protecting wooden floors from sofa feet.
regards
Sean
Quote from: sean66 on 26 August 2020, 08:00:39 AM
Many moons ago
I built a Waterloo chess set, in 28mm used line infantry for pawns.
then different types for the other positions. I got a big piece of toughened glass and etched it
placing a Celtic design in the black squares and around the edge.
all bases then had some of that protective matting you get for protecting wooden floors from sofa feet.
regards
Sean
Interesting, any pictures to share? Did the glass board "feel" nice to play on compared to a wooden one?
Good shout on the sofa feet protectors. Just had a Google there and seems like some good options and might save me trying to cut perfect circles out of felt myself. The castor cups might even work as a bottom base if I can find ones in the right size.
Sorry mmcv,
When I said many moons ago it was over ten years. so no photos.
the ones I used were like felt (got them from a cheap shop) I think the set I used had different sizes so used the bigger ones for feet for the glass board.
the glass was actually very nice to play on. just something a bit different from wood.
I used lead strip (same type you can buy in rolls, for the edging of the glass just to make it a bit nicer.
regards
Sean
Quote from: sean66 on 27 August 2020, 06:31:24 AM
Sorry mmcv,
When I said many moons ago it was over ten years. so no photos.
the ones I used were like felt (got them from a cheap shop) I think the set I used had different sizes so used the bigger ones for feet for the glass board.
the glass was actually very nice to play on. just something a bit different from wood.
I used lead strip (same type you can buy in rolls, for the edging of the glass just to make it a bit nicer.
regards
Sean
Thanks sean, that gives me a few things to look into.
No problem MMCV.
I hope you accomplish it.
regards
Sean.
Ma bought me a 'Waterloo' Chess Set when I was a kid. Carved wooden board. Metal pieces...not quite 54mm. Pawns, infantry. Rook...a castle with a bugler's head on top .Knights were dismounted Hussars. Bishops...dismounted H cav standing at rest (The swords snapped off!). King and Queen...(never worked out which but did not matter!)...were General on foot...and an imposing 'Draped' Standard...both raised on a fancy, 'militaristic' plinth. (Think 6mm cannon barrels, balls, etc.all moulded together.
Uniform had some inaccuracies! But, it was a Chess set! lol All painted to what you could say was 'a fair, wargame standard'...'toy soldier' level.
Quite a nice set, really. BUT...I HATED IT! :o Because...
Brits were in Red, of course! But the French...for some WEIRD reason, they were in Dark GREEN! :(
As the guy in 'The Film' cries..."WHY ??" :'( :'( :'(
I did consider repainting...but never tried as I was young. Later, some pieces had lost/damaged swords/Finials, etc It will still be there, somewhere...and as you can now replace lost or damaged kit from fig makers, could be 'made good' but cannot be bothered' unless as a retirement project. I don't play chess now, anyway!
My FAVOURITE set was..(and still is, although not on display)...a conventional set. Pieces quite large, in traditional chess style...with one side in Brass and the other, dark 'Pewter'...looks a bit 'Lead'ish! lol The board...inlaid squares of Brass and Copper...with Brass edging, rivets and felt under board and pieces. It is GORGEOUS! Many games played against Uncles as a child...and young nephews who wanted to play "Chest!", later on. Probably worth a bomb...but, as a 'hoarder', I don't sell stuff lol.
I've got a Burmese set with the board hand-carved as part of the storage box, and bronze pieces, one set slightly browner (not enough, really; might try staining it a bit some day); it's meant for sittuyin, the Burmese version of chess, but sets are interchangeable (though this is risky if you use a Staunton set to play Burmese chess, since the "queen" is rather weak, and the "bishops" are also less powerful than the familiar phallic piece * - in fact, they're the same as the silver general in shogi, the excellent Japanese version **, and makruk, the rather limited Thai variant).
In making a military chess set, it could be worth bearing in mind that the rook was a chariot originally (still is in shogi and in xiang chi, the Chinese game ***), and the bishop was an elephant - the tusks became the halves of the mitre when the middle-east transmitted the game from India but had stylised the elephant to suit Islamic allergies to representational art.
* cf. The Thomas Crown Affair. Faye Dunaway ensured chess would never be the same again.
** VERY highly recommended.
*** This and the Korean sub-variant inclde artillery! Of course, the Chinese claim their version is the original chess, but they also claim to have invented music, garlic, sex, cats, and probably oxygen.
Funnily enough I've been poking around looking at figure ideas on this again as I got the chess urge again after watching Queen's Gambit. I've found some fantastic figure options from El Greco, though unfortunately Wellington is 75mm and Napoleon 54mm. Jokes about height aside it's probably too big a variance.
I think I may aim for 75mm for king and possibly queen (general and standard bearer), then maybe 40/54/60 for the rest with plinths for making conventional heights. I may need to go smaller for the Knights as they could end up towering over the rest if I go for reading horses. Suppose if the standard bearer was 54 the addition of standard would add 30mm or so. As HH said the large size conventional pieces are nice to handle, so want to have something nice in the hand but also easily representative.
I've also been looking into using resin for the board, clear and tinted resin poured into a wooden grid, with a map of Waterloo below.
I also learned that in Estonian the Queen is known as the standard or flag.
Shogi and Xiang Chi are on my list to learn at some point. I do have a Xiang Chi board on the reverse of my Go board but no pieces and Shogi has always looked interesting. For the moment though I'm mostly focused on Chess and Go as my abstract games. Go (Igo more properly in Japanese, Weichi to the Chinese and Baduk to the Koreans) is my favourite, but Chess has its moments too.
Go drives me crazy. I have absolutely no idea what I'm trying to do on that board.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 19 November 2020, 08:30:01 AM
Go drives me crazy. I have absolutely no idea what I'm trying to do on that board.
;D that's half the fun. I like the grand strategy layer of it over the local tactical game you get with chess. Over time you develop patterns and principles for what to do with different situations and positions, but there's so much freedom on the board. I'm still not overly good at it, and mostly play smaller games on my phone, but there's an elegance and beauty to it when you get the stones just right to capture the opponent, or save a group of stones that was tottering on the edge of life and death.
Have you tried it in a 9x9 board? Zooms in on essentially a small corner of the board and get to grips with core patterns and local tactics.
I was pointed in that direction once. It was a long time ago, however.
From my teens to my 30s I played a huge amount of Chess, Go, Shogi and Mahjong but as time went on work/ family/ changing interests meant the circle of willing victims opponents dwindled and vanished.
I inherited my 1920's-era Mahjong set from my maternal grandfather and was gifted my Lewis Chess set and matching wooden board by my parents, as part of my university graduation present. There's something rather nice about playing with sets that have a special significance.
I like the idea of the resin and map for a board.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 19 November 2020, 04:11:37 PM
From my teens to my 30s I played a huge amount of Chess, Go, Shogi and Mahjong but as time went on work/ family/ changing interests meant the circle of willing victims opponents dwindled and vanished.
I inherited my 1920's-era Mahjong set from my maternal grandfather and was gifted my Lewis Chess set and matching wooden board by my parents, as part of my university graduation present. There's something rather nice about playing with sets that have a special significance.
I like the idea of the resin and map for a board.
Yeah for sure, I'm mostly left playing digitally as physical opponents are rare, but there's something to be said for the tactile play of an actual set, even more so when there's some significance attached to it. I've only ever played the solitare Mahjong (again digitally), sounds like you had a broad exposure on such games growing up. I only really encountered chess (mostly through my dad) and drafts (through my grandad) and only really got into things like Backgammon and Go when I was older and found digital versions to learn from.
Real mahjong has as much to do with the computer game as bridge does with patience. Misleading comparison, however, since bridge is a noble game of science and art hand-in-hand, while mahjong is like rummy, only for higher stakes and always noisier...oh, and with much more satisfying "cards". I have a local aunt-in-law who lost so much money at it a while ago she had to go into hiding for a year or two, and stole and popped quite a lot of the family resources.
Ithoriel: piccie of your set?
Depends on the mah jong programme. You can get proper games, but the AI tends to be weak.
That's reminded me that I've got my parents' Mah Jong set.....In the attic ?...In one of the cupboards ?
I can remember playing it a handful of times, when I was young, :'( but not much more than it felt like playing 'Happy Families' ! (Well, the way I used to play it, it did......'Cos I'd always try and collect the dragons (?)......Or the winds (?).
...And we never seemed to use those 'money sticks'...Which I'm sure are really an integral part of the game.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: FierceKitty on 19 November 2020, 10:52:40 PM
Ithoriel: piccie of your set?
As requested
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/949/TJhprN.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/237/eP1rI3.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6259/8M1FP6.jpg)
That's lovely!
That kind rattles most gratifyingly when you mix the tiles up.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 20 November 2020, 02:19:53 PM
That kind rattles most gratifyingly when you mix the tiles up.
The name Mah Jongg refers to the chittering of sparrows when you mix the tiles together.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 20 November 2020, 08:25:43 AM
As requested
Is that a full set Mike?
Looks like gaps in the trays.
Quote from: jimduncanuk on 20 November 2020, 02:53:24 PM
Is that a full set Mike?
Looks like gaps in the trays.
Yes Jim, it's a full set. The tiles, tray/box and rulebook all came from different sources.
The tiles are from an ex-China Station US marine who stayed with my grandparents in the late 1930's. He offered to pay for his stay. Knowing he was broke they said it was fine and his company was payment enough. He insisted they take the tiles as a thank you for their hospitality.
Grandad was a joiner (chippy) in the naval dockyard, at either Devonport or Chatham, at the time and working with a British-born lascar and mentioned the tiles and his complete lack of knowledge about the game. A few days later the lascar turned up with the rulebook and gave it to my grandfather.
The leather case and trays are intended for jewellery and were picked up second-hand after Grandad was transferred to Rosyth during WW2.
Such is the family story, anyway. But as my Grandfather said, more then once,"Family History, often a mystery!" :)
More than just family history embodied by those tiles :-\
I've learnt a new word today, lascar
Quote from: paulr on 20 November 2020, 06:38:35 PM
More than just family history embodied by those tiles :-
I've learnt a new word today, lascar
Here's another then Paul,
mistree, a lascar joiner/ carpenter.
Imagine my teenage confusion when my grandfather told me the rules were a gift from a mystery :)
On the gambling aspect, as a student I used to eat in a Chinese restaurant off Leith Walk where Chinese guys used to play Mahjong "No Limit." Not unusual to see cars, houses, restaurants and even a laundrette change hands!
I also heard that losing Mah Jongg gamblers who didn't pay their debts had a finger chopped off starting with a pinkie.