Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: Heedless Horseman on 04 August 2020, 03:59:31 AM

Title: WW2 Churchill Tanks In Italy
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 04 August 2020, 03:59:31 AM
Is there a 'Definitive' book for colour schemes on a Churchill...esp. in Italy??? Or other ref, but I like books! (The Mig Ammo: 'Sherman, The American Miracle' is , to me, a marvellous resource!).
I am asking for two reasons, (in the main!), although Brit Armour in Italy is a massive question mark as regards paint jobs!  :'(

Firstly, NA75. Most 'illustrations' show a plain green...PLUS appropriate 'mud/dust' of course! lol. However, some photos, in B/W definitely seem...to MY eyes...to be TWO Tone...maybe 'Mud' over green...or the other way round!  :'(

Secondly: I have just watched a, (recorded a while back), TV doc by Dan Snow...(Very Sorry, not sure what the mini series was called, bit Digging for Britain/WW2? At 03.30, I am afraid that I am not about to switch on the recorder to give a proper ref, but if anyone is interested, I will provide a better Title .). This prog about WW2 in Norhern Ireland, had a very interesting section about Churchill Tanks...including a 'Working' vehicle. WOW! Listen to a Churchill!    8) (I have not yet watched the oher 2 progs, but one seems to show a load of Shermans from a sunken ship off the Irish coast!  8)
This led into a section about the North Irish Horse in Italy...again very interesting as it showed terrain and defences for the 'Hitler Line'...and also a clip of an interview with a veteran...plus some 'battlefield archaeology'.  :)

Now, included in the video footage, was some film of Churchills...looked like MkIII. Now, we all know how reliable 'archive' footage can be in TV progs !!! But...
one short B/W clip of a MkIII seemed to me to show pale, (Sand/MUD?), OVERPAINTED on a TWO TONE darker camo? Eh??? The hull sides looked like 'Tunisia' 'Tiger Stripes', with a plainer job on the turret.
The closest illustration that I have seen would be:  https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/A22_Churchill_Tank.php ...but that looks to me to be green over sand/mud...also 'neater 'and two tone, rather than an overpaint on a two tone finish.   :-

Another short, long distance clip seemed to me, to show a THREE tone cammo job...though again in B/W...and probably a 'unit' improvisation, rather than a depot repaint.
It could be me!  :( ;)

Just wondering about others thoughts on the matter? When/If I get round to actually modelling some vehicles, I rather suspect that I will just 'do as I please'...which MAY be about as 'accurate' as any Armour paint job in Italy!  ;D However, if someone does have some info, it would be appreciated!

Just wish there was a single book with a whole lot of artwork!  :-[  :)
With Thanks!
Title: Re: WW2 Churchill Tanks In Italy
Post by: Steve J on 04 August 2020, 06:13:57 AM
The following should be of use to you:

https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463 (https://www.mafva.org/british-vehicle-camouflage-1939-45/?v=79cba1185463)

http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/britain/concord7068bookreviewab_1.html (http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/britain/concord7068bookreviewab_1.html)
Title: Re: WW2 Churchill Tanks In Italy
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 04 August 2020, 08:40:49 AM
Olive Drab, sepia wash, then highlight with Brown Violet, then plaster liberally with dark earth and stone grey.
Title: Re: WW2 Churchill Tanks In Italy
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 05 August 2020, 02:45:44 AM
Thanks fellas.
The MAFVA ref is a useful guide... but, 'even' in Brit Army, 'regulation' schemes tended to become a bit altered in a combat theatre.
The Concord book 'would' be nice...but not at £64! for only a few colour plates of various vehicles.  :(  I have been looking out for it much more cheaply, but without success.
Oh well, there is no rush for me, as I am not able to really DO anything with pieces at the present time. :(

Incidentally, have watched the second 'Dig WW2' with Dan Snow in N I...and also interesting! A ship-load of Shermans and other stuff, largely intact on the seabed...although the vessel sadly lost a lot of crew, so they will rest in peace. And a sad tale of an Arnhem KOSB who died in combat...but by trying to clear a jammed Bren by banging the Butt on the ground...with an unfortunate result. At least the descendants found out the details...and that he did not suffer.  :(
Title: Re: WW2 Churchill Tanks In Italy
Post by: Terry37 on 01 June 2021, 03:27:01 AM
I find it pretty hard to beat Starmer's books. He also includes great painted color chips.

http://www.matadormodels.co.uk/tank_museum/xcamo_starmer.htm

Terry
Title: Re: WW2 Churchill Tanks In Italy
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 01 June 2021, 06:04:09 AM
Churchill III is perfectly possible in Italy, quite large numbers used in Tunisia. There were a few Mk II 3" in turret in Tunisia due to a shortage of Mk V's but I doubt any made it across the Med.