Hello all
I dont have much experience in actually wargaming more painting/planning and never completing! Something i am determined is going to change this year. I want to use the warlord games rules, my question is as i will be playing these solo how large a game can these rulesets handle and be completed within a day. I.e can i complete a battle the size of cannae in a day (a base representing a 1000 men)?
Can i complete a battle the size of Waterloo (a base represents a regiment) in a day? I want army size battles but not brigade bases! Am i expecting too much?!
Thanks in advance
Well Black Powder plays well - i've done several large games with it in 20, 15 and 6mm So I'd say yes.
Black Powder II gives a good game, but not sure if you'd be able to finish Waterloo as a solo game in a day. For large games, I'd heartily recommend Bloody Big Battles, where you can play Koniggratz or Gettysburg solo in a day, no problem. Both games, like most, are more fun face-to-face, but work perfectly well solo. Hope this helps?
Thanks
I read big bloody battles but it just didnt seem to click in my head lile black powder did, no disrespect to the rules maybe just me! I think i need a few practise games im better at learning by doing!
WE did get a result with one side of Lepzig in a day at Gauntlet a few years back but that was unit as Rgt rather than btn.
I think thats the scale i would go for
1 base - 1 regiment of cavalry or infantry
4 artillery bases - 1 artillery regiment (late 19th century)
Bit of a long one but I was in a similar boat to yourself a couple of years back just starting into wargaming with a book of Hail Caesar, a 28mm starter set and some big plans!
I've played a few Hail Caesar games and most go a few hours easily enough. Playing solo means some things go quicker in some areas and slower in others. As you have to move all the figures yourself that can take time and fatigue is something to be aware of. When playing with multiple people you can share the metal and physical activities of the game, solo you're on that all the time, so if you are planning an all day affair make sure you've plenty of breaks!
Saying that, HC is generally scenario driven with a fixed number of turns. This means you can set the parameters yourself for the game. So the Roman goal might be to get a certain number of units off the table, or survive a certain number of turns without loosing more that a certain number of units.
They are generally pretty fast play rules, and the division break rules mean you're not fighting a grind to the last man so you should be able to do most battles in an afternoon. I own BP but haven't played it yet (though have played P&S) but it follows similar principles as I understand.
Waterloo was pretty big, there was this event put on: https://www.warlordgames.com/warlord-games-support-worlds-largest-28mm-battle-playing-black-powder/ to replay the whole thing.
Which as you can see was pretty huge.
So an exact recreation would be pretty difficult for a solo game...or a normal house, without using a much more zoomed out scale or ruleset. For something like Waterloo in BP you would have to either "bathtub" it where maybe a single unit represented a much larger proportion of the army, or else split it into a series of separate actions and fight it as a mini campaign where the result of one battle in one area of the field may result in a shift in the dynamics in another part in the next engagement.
I would suggest starting smaller and building up. I got a bit over ambitious at times with wanting to do big engagements and then real life got in the way, so look at what you can reasonably game in a regular basis and start there to build up. That way you can get a feel for the rules and the play without having too much to handle at once. I sometimes make mini, midi and maxi lists for a battle to scale it up or down as I'm able to. Then you'll soon get a feel for how long things take.
One thing, and you've maybe mentioned this previously, it is worth considering single bigger bases for large solo games. You lose the flexibility of having multiple bases for formations but if you're happy using markers for this it'll make your life easier moving one base per unit rather than lots! That'll save you a fair bit of time. Which means you'll have more time to take pictures to share with us all how your battles go! :D
Thanks for the detailed response! I am exactly like you i want to jump straight into the large battles but i need to start small so i can grt a grip of the rules. As i said previously all my units will be one base to save time (and now that i have done it, in my opinion they do look better than on smaller multiple bases), having said that i realise im going to lose the ability to represent formations and will have to use markers and counters to game effects.
Eventually i want a campaign where my units progress (or not) my veteran units gaining elite status and maybe destroyed units being re raised with the freshly raised or levy rule. Basically i want rome total war in miniature form!
One thing to beware of - HC P&S and BP are different, but not very, and it's easy to to use the wrong rules. Classic is disorder from shooting, in BP its any 6's unless a 6 to hit, in which case 2 are needed, in HC you need to take a morale check.
Thanks for that ian, think that may be the least of my rule errors! I have read online that some people have swapped the turn sequence around i.e firing first then movement? Have you done this?
We did it for a while, but have reverted. You would only need to do so in BP.
The only thing I would add to MMCV's excellent advice is.
If you're seeking to "Bathtub" (ie scale down) a big battle, then remove the skirmishers.
2 reasons for this.
First you might get a half battalion sent out to skirmish, you would rarely get a half division, or half corps.
Second light infantry are one of the bits of Black Powder that make the game go slowly.
I was thinking of just allowing legere or jagers to skirmish? I know its a completely oversimplification but i have got to be a tad realistic!
QuoteI got a bit over ambitious at times
A wargamer? Over-reaching? Are you sure?
BP is really Battalion/unit, though I'm sure it would bathtub to a regiment/brigade. Waterloo is going to be difficult in one game though. Sunjester and I will be trying Blucher tomorrow - that is scaled to that sort of battle. The Honour Website has the 100 days campaign rules on it.
A few years back we did a full ACW with BP as a mini-campaign. Divisions were moved on the map, and the battles generated fought. (it was 2015/16, and General Trump would often refuse to move to support Bush, Rubio, Cruz etc. Oh how we laughed...)
Blucher is brigade bases isnt it? Moving divisions around maps is exactly what im aiming to achieve, campaigns and battles being linked with in game effects i.e losses, troops/generals gaining skill
Hi
If you are looking at the Blucher rules, which personally I think are really good for games where you are trying to represent whole armies and moving divisions around a map (or more precisely corps' in Blucher's case) then you might be interested in looking at this link:
http://www.armygroupyork.com/after-action-reports/danube-campaign-turn-1
It is a report of a 1809 campaign, using Blucher run some years ago by the people who produce 'Little Wars TV'.
Good luck.
Cheers Paul
Have just finished a Blucher game with Sunjester (his first).
Because its a high level game its a little different to traditional wargames rules - the movement is very 'undetailed' and there are no real formations, apart from units being marked as 'prepared'. Its very much trusting the brigadiers and colonels are doing their job right. Combat is also very 'bland' - you aren't making tactical decisions, rather 1 elan point = 1 die in combat.
This is in no way a criticism - you are commanding an army in Blucher - you don't give a flying blue {####} about those sort of things, its just not necessarily 'traditional' wargaming. Bases are either 1200-2000 men, 2000-3000 or 3000-5000 depending on the level you are playing at, though that has no effect on the rules, just how you convert historical armies.
What sort of wargaming are you after? Do you want to roll for every shot, or do you just want to know did the division see off the enemy?
T13a- i really enjoy the little wars tv videos very envious of their setups!
Last hussar - i just get the feeling 1-stand=1 brigade is a little too zoomed out for me. Obviously this is all theory i havent rolled a dice in anger! As you said im happy not to care what formation my regiment is in i trust they should be in the most appropriate and a bad or good dice roll can explain a lot of things if you get me!
Its not even that precise! "That collection" of units is a corps. Orders of battle tend to split them down to Brigades/Regiments/Part Divisions, but that's the choice of the compiler.
Your biggest decision is what level do you want to play at? Wargamers, unlike real generals command 2 levels down: 12-20 units a side is a good game. This means if you want to be Napoleon the units are Divisions. If you are happy leading a Corps, then units are usually Brigades/Regiments.
If you want battalions on the table you will be the Divisional commander activating your Brigadiers to give orders.
No matter what, don't do "The Peninsula"!
I play very large solo games using both Hail Caesar and Pike and Shotte,and both are well suited to solo play. Easily completed in a day, the command and control system lends itself well to solo play. My old blog has some images of large games I played http://kerikerigamer.blogspot.com (http://kerikerigamer.blogspot.com)
Cheers
Ian
Last hussar
Realistically im going to aim for a corpse and see how quick i can get through a game while i learn the rules
Sandinista
Very envious of your collections and living in new zealand! How could you leave god own county though?!
Quote from: Adamwest on 27 June 2020, 11:38:52 AM
Realistically im going to aim for a corpse and see how quick i can get through a game while i learn the rules
Ahh, zombie gaming . . .
I really like Blucher but the Momentum Dice (command points) is awkward solo though there's a kind gent has built a spreadsheet macro to handle that!
If you want ongoing "character development" for the army can I recommend another of Sam Mustafa's games and suggest Longstreet? It's not a high level game, you're commanding your Regiment > Division throughout the whole American Civil War and it progresses as you go. Maurice for the c18th has a campaign mode that's quite good, but you want a few players to handle it I'm afraid.
Raider 4
Ha! You got me! Im surprised i havent been pulled on my spelling or grammer yet!
Toxic pixie
I have read maurice some years ago now, i loved the imagi-nation building!
Don't aim for the corpse - aim for the buggers who are still shooting back!
TP - How's that going, you used it yet?
Hah, I've been playin fantasy games so aiming at the corpse is actually potentially needed as it might still be moving!
LH, no, see above :D
I might get the Nappies down when the current Oathmark game finishes. Y'know I swore I'd put "... on this forum" on the end of "...king gentleman" :/
Adam - yes, the imagination building is ace - so much potential for silly names :D
You don't think I actually bother reading anything you buggers post here, do you?
I might read something Nobby has written by mistake.
Sweet jibbers Crabsticks, LH, no one wants that.
The Centurion pr0n will haunt me for ever!
Actually, don't tell him but I painted this for the Father-outlaw's Xmas pressie -
https://Www.facebook.com/pg/jtppainting/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2534687113447744&ref=bookmarks&mt_nav=1 (https://Www.facebook.com/pg/jtppainting/photos/?tab=album&album_id=2534687113447744&ref=bookmarks&mt_nav=1)
Bloke at work used to drive tanks when he was in the army. The status lights in the cab of a Centurion are coloured, which is how you are supposed to know what is happening. Unfortunately he's colour blind, so he made dymo labels. Other drivers looked and went "that's brilliant, why did we never think of that?"
Ahhh the humble label maker, truly mans greatest invention!
I like the bit in Spectre where Bond has 'Borrowed' the DB10 with it's £3m Q-Branch Upgrade, and Q has just Dymo'ed the switches. It's very British.
;D
Good film :)
Quote from: Adamwest on 26 June 2020, 05:09:17 AM
Blucher is brigade bases isnt it? Moving divisions around maps is exactly what im aiming to achieve, campaigns and battles being linked with in game effects i.e losses, troops/generals gaining skill
Club choices:
(1) Maurice
(2) Blucher
(3) Pickett's Charge
Quote from: Adamwest on 27 June 2020, 11:38:52 AM
How could you leave god own county though?!
Large chunks of NZ are quite reminiscent of Yorkshire, but with warmer weather. As for reasons many, mainly due to my wife being a New Zealander.
Glad I avoided the BBC chaos - Brexit, Boris and Cocked response to Covid 19.
Cheers
Ian
Quote from: toxicpixie on 28 June 2020, 05:44:27 PM
;D
Good film :)
+1
I wonder if "M" made him pay it off at 20 quid a week or in RAF parlance the DB10 was just quietly "struck off charge" after its swim in the Tiber?
Getting back to labels I do think that well designed ones are worth adding to each stand where possible. Makes unit identification in larger games much easier.
"Consumables expended in line of duty" ;)
Like accounting for paper clips ;)
Stop talking about label makers, now I want a label maker! White paper and tape ain't cutting it now I've seen the top table :D
Back to rules for a moment:
If you want to solo play a battle in a day - Volley and Bayonet - the original set for preference, or the 'Road to Glory' second edition if you can't find a copy of the original (ignore the stuff about brigade skirmishers though - it messes up the elegant simplicity of the original).
Your units are brigades and again there is no line column square stuff, but you do get to throw in a reserve cavalry Corps when you feel like it.
Works for 7YW to Franco Prussian War or back to Marlburian/GNW (possibly 17th Century, but I'm doubtful) with amendments available online.
Quote from: Gwydion on 29 June 2020, 01:43:33 PM
Back to [OP] for a moment:
You're new here, aren't you...
Blucher has the Scharnhorst campaign rules in the back.
Somebody mentioned this thing about 'maintenance of aim' to me once, can't seem to shake the idea, sorry. :)
Maintenance of the aim?
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/fe293e98b4c2e1393889987124c13101/tumblr_mnsd8epVWh1r33me3o1_500.gif)
:) :) :) :) :)
;D
@sandinista
I have family in new Zealand i would love to go visit one day, looks beautiful from pics i have seen!
Thank you all for the suggestions, think i need to get playing and tinker with rules until i find something that works for me. I had thought of neil thomas rules they seem simple enough to base a game on and with plenty of options to tinker
Quote from: Ithoriel on 30 June 2020, 12:21:26 PM
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/fe293e98b4c2e1393889987124c13101/tumblr_mnsd8epVWh1r33me3o1_500.gif)
Always! Stay shiny! :D
Quote from: Adamwest on 30 June 2020, 09:45:35 PM
@sandinista
I have family in new Zealand i would love to go visit one day, looks beautiful from pics i have seen!
Thank you all for the suggestions, think i need to get playing and tinker with rules until i find something that works for me. I had thought of neil thomas rules they seem simple enough to base a game on and with plenty of options to tinker
Plenty of players using Warlord rules over here these days but I'd suggest coming (at least to Wellington) another day - we have a good Wellington Southerly today - feels like 2 Degrees C, winds gusting 120km/h and plenty of rain turning to sleet/snow on the hills, 6m waves in Cook Strait so ferries cancelled..... :o
Luckily my son flew back to Christchurch yesterday just before the southerly arrived.
Still, can't beat Wellington on a good day ;)
Cheers
Pierre the frozen