It is 70 years this week since the start of the Korean War. With the restrictions imposed by the virus, I assume official acts of national remembrance will be minimal.
I had the privilege of serving with some of the old and bold who wore Blue & Yellow and Blue & White ribbons along with a multi barred GSM. I have asked Leon's permission to dedicate this thread to their remembrance. With the exception of the North Irish volunteers, all of the UK regiments would have depended on National Service intake.
If anyone wants to post photographs (family or net) or share family history they are most welcome. This invite extends not just to the British and Commonwealth family, but the wider United Nations demographic.
In sharing, discussing and learning .....we will remember them.
Thank you.
I think the Korean War often tends to be a bit overlooked in the UK as it gets overshadowed by WWII.
Good to remember it and the veterans who served all those years ago.
It is a bit of a forgotten war everywhere, probably due to it's proximity to WWII and the stalemated result !
Since the Dutch also participated in the Korean War and have forgotten about it just as quick I can wholeheartedly agree with your message.
May their sacrifices never be forgotten.
Cheers,
Rob
Good thought gents.
Must paint my South Koreans...
Well said, James !
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 22 June 2020, 12:35:44 PM
Since the Dutch also participated in the Korean War and have forgotten about it just as quick I can wholeheartedly agree with your message.
May their sacrifices never be forgotten.
Cheers,
Rob
Yes, Rob, can't forget "the Cloggies"- the newly raised Regiment Van Heutsz were in the line at Pusan as early as 23 Nov 50. They won a US Presidential Citation. When the Battalion was finally withdrawn they had lost 120 dead.
In 2010 they were manning Camp Hadrian at a certain bend on the Helmand River. But I will leave that story to my cousin's son. :)
The Van Heutz regiment had a somewhat checkered history. During my time in the army (early nineties) they were no more than a pool for the unwilling and the 'not so smart' that were kicked out of other units and only used for guarding baracks and such... When the army returned to being a professional army (when conscription stopped) the regiment luckily got upgraded again to regular standards.
Cheers,
Rob
Thanks for this Rob. Fascinating how conscription and voluntary service can impact a unit's character and morale.
But I would argue that an army also needs a raison for their existence. When the Cold War ended, a lot of former NATO units foundered. What were they there for? Why bother staying sharp?
It is hard to motivate troops in field craft, battle skills, discipline and teamwork if they see no need for these skills during their service.
Ethiopians in Korea
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19639459 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19639459)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagnew_Battalion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagnew_Battalion)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/6e/91/a76e910f5eea749aa45848bfa7762476.jpg)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Ethiopian_Soldiers_Korean_War.jpg/1200px-Ethiopian_Soldiers_Korean_War.jpg)(https://wwiiafterwwii.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/jeep.jpg?w=809)
Greeks - Spartan Battalion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Expeditionary_Force_(Korea) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Expeditionary_Force_(Korea))
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzyRFkNWkAIlzl8.jpg:large)(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/36/b0/63/36b063e43dba25afee82769e47f041b5--korean-war-warriors.jpg)
Australians
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/3_RAR_Korea_%28AWM_P01813-449%29.jpg)(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/26/62/ac/2662ac87304e0228bc1d6c7e2393756b.jpg)(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/34/48/large_000000.jpg)(https://assets.huckberry.com/uploads/750_australian_sniper_korea_raised.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRGu3gRsm6itTNaFm7Yf1H6prDdLxwqcq_jOlt_Rp_PBud2zDg7&usqp=CAU)
Wow- thanks Nobby. A stunning montage of evocative images. Thanks for taking the trouble to source and post.
I'm just warming up!
Royal Marines - lots of US kit but that Green Beret stayed put!
I think some of these photos were used in the creation of the Pendraken range.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/500/1*wW7O67_ouLmSbFmzgdD8Sg.jpeg)(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/3d/5c/4e3d5c86ae9d2680b36475455d5b1621.jpg)(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8c/e0/e3/8ce0e34696be2ca14aa1227af85115c4.jpg)(https://online.fliphtml5.com/jumk/jxgh/files/large/2.jpg)(https://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o524/janner7/RM%20Korea%204_zpskvsd04ti.jpg)(https://miro.medium.com/max/1600/1*6xhLQubSLNapmkRt2C_WAA.jpeg)
There are some familiar piccies there, without doubt, Nobby ! :)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 23 June 2020, 08:39:38 PM
There are some familiar piccies there, without doubt, Nobby ! :)
Cheers - Phil
Yes, that's the 41 mob doing what they did best. You captured their professional elan to a tee Phil.
Helion & Company have just done a book on the Ethiopian Battalion in Korea:
https://www.helion.co.uk/military-history-books/emperors-own-ethiopian-forces-in-the-korean-war.php?sid=ae7a3517e7493841f392bea4c0b95e57
Mark
Kiwis in Korea
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/NZ_artillery_25_pounder_Korea_1951_%28AWM_HOBJ2238%29.jpg/581px-NZ_artillery_25_pounder_Korea_1951_%28AWM_HOBJ2238%29.jpg)
(https://cdn6.nzgeo.com/1970/01/57_KoreanWar_07-1600x1044.jpg)
(https://cdn6.nzgeo.com/1970/01/57_KoreanWar_02-600x471.jpg)
A short National Film Unit film on the Kiwis in Korea https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/kiwis-in-korea-1951 (https://www.nzonscreen.com/title/kiwis-in-korea-1951)
Filipinos in Korea
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EfF8f8W0Jck/U0NoQOeMqWI/AAAAAAAAIdM/GPc_sdkOkdQ/s1600/19th+BCT.+Hill+Eerie+and+other+hills+in+19th+BCT+sector.JPG) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m3S1pprrCCw/UsfHXo1TuDI/AAAAAAAADtI/jfFAJpb3LOc/s1600/19th+BCT+men+at+mass+in+Chorwon+before+deploying+to+the+front.JPG)
A series of battles were fought over Hill Eerie from March to July 1952 by the Philippine 20
th Battalion Combat Team approximately 2 miles (3.2 km) northeast of the more famous Pork Chop Hill
@Paulr :-bd
That Kiwi 25pdr battery made ts way onto my table. :D
Quote from: paulr on 23 June 2020, 09:33:33 PM
Kiwis in Korea
(https://cdn6.nzgeo.com/1970/01/57_KoreanWar_07-1600x1044.jpg)
How much do each of the shells weigh ?
I'm trying to work out whether I might
just be able lift a full box of eight of them.
(When I was younger, anyway.....I'm sure I wouldn't be able to now !)
Cheers - Phil
That size it's a 2 man load Phil....
Quote from: Techno on 24 June 2020, 06:50:42 AM
How much do each of the shells weigh ?
Sorry. Are you asking how much the shells of a 25pdr gun/howitzer weight?
Hi Nobby ! ;)
Really would have helped, if I'd noticed your reference to 25 pdrs. X_X
Answer me this, to clear it up in my mind, though.
25 pds......Is that the total weight of the shell......(before it's fired)....or just the 'nasty' bit that drops on the foe ?
Cheers - Phil
25pds is the complete shell.
No Nobby, it's just the bangy bit, for referance a 105 weighs 30 lbs. There is a reason gun bunnies are big lads.
Thanks, chaps...... :)
But that begs the question.....How much did the empty case weigh, if it had to carry 240lbs ?
10 ? 20 ? 30 lbs ?.....More ??
No wonder 'gun bunnies' were brawny lads ! :o
Cheers - Phil
Phil - the projectile on a 25pdr is 25lb, the brass case is roughly 6-10 lb with up to 1 1/2 lb of cordite in it. The smoke/chemical shell and AP shot are different weights/masses, the carriers are lighter, and I think the AP shot is as well. The case is separate so that you can vary the charge to alter the range or speed up an A/T shot. If you look at the piccies you'll see that the NZ gun has no muzzel break, it was added to UK weapons for NWE to allow a "supercharge plus" for AT work. Near the gun position there should be a small fire to burn unused cordite, but cant see one in the picture of the NZ gun.
Quote from: ianrs54 on 24 June 2020, 10:21:31 AM
. Near the gun position there should be a small fire to burn unused cordite, but cant see one in the picture of the NZ gun.
In winter climes like Norway , (and no doubt Korea) cordite was handy for lighting fires if the Bialaddins were burnt out or left behind. Gunners would trade it for fags. Of course at night such illuminations need concealed. But you can create good black out with a few phoncos. Once Hexamine was introduced it killed off the second hand cordite trade.
I recall as a boy visiting with my grandmother, an elderly lady on the north coast of County Antrim. She lit her fire every morning with cordite from the wreck of HMS Drake.
In the Balkans in the 90s, Brit units were still using "Benghazi burners" when the No12s were U/S.
Problem is that Hexamine is a tad poisinus - my last two hexy stoves I gave to a freind who used them when he went fishing.
.
Quote from: ianrs54 on 24 June 2020, 12:07:19 PM
Problem is that Hexamine is a tad poisinus - my last two hexy stoves I gave to a freind who used them when he went fishing.
.
I recall in the 80s, tasked with Norwegian reserves, tracking a platoon of 2 Para who were playing Red Force.
The Norgies had two advantages. First they were keen outdoors types, secondly they knew their own backyard- what looked or smelt out of place in the snow clad forests.
The Para hasty patrol harbour was text book in terms of concealment. But on the clear night air was carried the tell tale whiff of Hex.
They were not happy bunnies about being compromised by a bunch of farmers/fishermen . :)
The Para boss had to ply me with Hennessey XO to keep me from ratting on them to the Royals M&A Cadre - but the Norgies told everyone that they had beaten the elite of the Brit Army and even the local press carried subtle hints.
Oh , NATO wargames were fun..
It is amazing what can give you away. US troops in Afganistan thought the Brits were unhygenic cause they didn't shower a couple of days before a patrol. Real reason was to get rid of the smell of soaps
Quote from: ianrs54 on 24 June 2020, 01:24:53 PM
It is amazing what can give you away. US troops in Afganistan thought the Brits were unhygenic cause they didn't shower a couple of days before a patrol. Real reason was to get rid of the smell of soaps
Yeah, I heard that. Does US Army does not have continuity channels - like Warminister SoI or the JWTS (Seria) for passing on such lore.
The LRRPs and SEALS would have" the knowledge" from Vietnam. Its what we call advanced field craft.
It is because we have a culture of long service NCOs? I recall in the early 1990s there was a craze from America for using one lace end to secure the entire boot.
An elderly WO 1 - serving out his time with cadets- watched young squaddies do this and cautioned them. "Listen mucker, you are cutting off circulation as your lace traps the artery."
Six months later the practice was banned. Everyone reverted to conventional lacing.
Astonished to read that paras were using hexi in a tactical situation. Their platoon commander needed his proverbial kicking. In my experience rations were eaten cold in tactical situations, no brews and no smoking.
But what colour our South Korean uniforms?
Quote from: John Cook on 24 June 2020, 03:30:43 PM
Astonished to read that paras were using hexi in a tactical situation. Their platoon commander needed his proverbial kicking. In my experience rations were eaten cold in tactical situations, no brews and no smoking.
Their O/C went to much higher things. The Paras treated the oppo with contempt - after all the HV (
Heimerrnet was literally the Home Guard (Dads Army), down to the WW2 weapons, uniforms and kit.
But as stated they were keen as mustard and knew their back yard. When the Hex betrayed the Red position, I had a decco at the map, got a briefing on every hump and hollow and worked out how I would deploy a harbour. Every OP was Thunderflashed
Remember, Paras depend a lot on their Gung Ho elan and going for broke once someone shouts "GO" - As you may recall from Op Banner, they don't do stealth very well, and were often "slack" in tactical sits. After all,
they are the Paras. . A blunt heavy instrument as opposed to a Fairbairn. :)
Quote from: mad lemmey on 24 June 2020, 03:49:47 PM
But what colour our South Korean uniforms?
ROK wore shades similar to Americans but different tailoring.
Summer "US Khakis"- which is in American speak a very light (desert?) tan. Keep them a lighter tone of sand than KPA ?
and later the ubiquitous M43. Tamiya XF-21 is not far away when applied to 10mm.
Thank you so much. Project has been stalled as all my research keeps coming back to that one Osprey image of a headmaster in dark blue! ~X( >:<
That doesn't sound like the Parachute Regiment I knew. In my experience their soldiering skills were exemplary in all respects.
South Korean student soldiers
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/%EB%8C%80%EA%B5%AC%EC%9D%98_%EC%96%B4%EB%8A%90_%ED%95%99%EB%8F%84%EC%9D%98%EC%9A%A9%EA%B5%B0.PNG/325px-%EB%8C%80%EA%B5%AC%EC%9D%98_%EC%96%B4%EB%8A%90_%ED%95%99%EB%8F%84%EC%9D%98%EC%9A%A9%EA%B5%B0.PNG)
Indian Para Medics (that's medics who are paratroopers - not super ambulance crew.)
(https://www.thebetterindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Col-Rangaraj.jpg)
South Koreans at rifle practice
(https://sites.breakingmedia.com/uploads/sites/3/2013/07/US-trains-South-Korean-troops-1952-h97174.jpg)
South Korean 57mm AT gun
(https://images.dailyhive.com/20190110182822/korean-war.jpg)
South Koreans in 1950
(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/6f7c376/2147483647/resize/1160x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F92%2F6f%2F12ff1fb94033a5653ee23ca20104%2Fk2.jpg)
Quote from: Sunray on 25 June 2020, 12:13:21 PM
Now this thread was about remembering Korea - lets resume that course and bearing !
Yep...
.Please don't fall out, chums.
As one who could never have been
remotely useful as far as the armed forces were concerned...(So I wouldn't have
clue what it was like to serve..
anywhere)..I still don't want to see see folk falling out.
All the best - Phil :)
Quote from: Techno on 25 June 2020, 03:27:15 PM
As one who could never have been remotely useful as far as the armed forces were concerned...
I'm thinking you could clean tank gun barrels from the inside?
I'd slide down those far too fast, Nobby.
Cheers - Phil ;)
In that weird hind part of my brain, I have an image of Techno in the gun barrel of a Centurion 3, shouting "bang".
Too much "Goons" as a child, I suspect.
Chinese
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/01/1d/5e011d9e076a27558486b9e6aa48653d.jpg)(https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FCbb5PCn.jpg&hash=dfd5db16082b4620411e59c5cde86d18)(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/0a/b6/160ab6187831782c9eb35245c0f92b0a.jpg)(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/VPZzOLnt9NBN3nS8XqmbhUI5MJRKu4ccxYyl6VRLkwzgCfYDu5Gc4Es32T6HcvG3UoKSnL_8rF2pKFUijDu2hFq7ST5szY3gV-meqiY_ZthfSw)
from a Chinese TV series
(https://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2016/2016-06-05/997745a6-d9c3-4b15-80df-8915b7f0527d.jpeg)
South Koreans
(https://www.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/archaeologyandhistory/2020/06/korean-war-explainer/korean-war-500810027.adapt.1900.1.jpg)
British - posed surely?
(https://hwcahuffman.weebly.com/uploads/1/8/5/9/18599260/1628912.jpg?359)
This is THE Korean War photo for me.
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2B02DNX/the-korean-war-25-june-1950-armistice-signed-27-july-1953-was-a-military-conflict-between-the-republic-of-korea-supported-by-the-united-nations-and-north-korea-supported-by-the-peoples-republic-of-china-prc-with-military-material-aid-from-the-soviet-union-the-war-was-a-result-of-the-physical-division-of-korea-by-an-agreement-of-the-victorious-allies-at-the-conclusion-of-the-pacific-war-at-the-end-of-world-war-ii-the-korean-peninsula-was-ruled-by-japan-from-1910-until-the-end-of-world-war-ii-following-the-surrender-of-japan-in-1945-american-administrators-divided-the-peninsula-a-2B02DNX.jpg)
Are they Gloucesters ? I can't see a Backbadge. But yes, it does look posed.
With hindsight perhaps we should have sculpted the first Brits in beret as opposed to the historically accurate bush hat ?
(https://www.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11164342.ece/ALTERNATES/s510b/PROD-Glosters-at-Imjin-RiverJPG.jpg)
I think they are Gloucesters - the attribution of the original is the Gloucestershire Museum - and I can see a back badge on the chap in the foreground who is facing away. The 5th up on the trench shows a badge that I think looks like the Sphinx - and they are wearing the 29th Brigade patch (bet they took a long time to design that one!)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Glosters_front_badge_circa_1957_trspt.png)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/29th_Infantry_Brigade_Formation_Patch.svg/200px-29th_Infantry_Brigade_Formation_Patch.svg.png)
Yeah - that's the backbadge all right. The image may not have been taken in Korea at all. After their "glory" the Battalion was sent to Warminister and used to demonstrate, train and mentor other units.
However, the retention of the 29th badge would argue they are still in Korea.
Interesting to observe how the beret is beginning to shrink from the floppy headdress of WW2 to the neater lid that it has evolved into today.