Beyond that, gloves and boots are the most debated item of modern kit and swapping items with Allied forces is a frequent thing .. everyone else has been stuff.
Many thanks for the interesting post. My WWII armies have traditionally always been issued with brown boots, which merge more easily into the basing surface colour! However, should I be thinking in terms of black boots? The Soviet KIRZA boot shown in wiki is black.
British and German leather boots were black, but use a dark charcoal grey paint, such as Vallejo's grey-black, as black is much too stark. The same goes for tyres.
Correct, British would be shiny
Very helpful; shiny black boots because of polish or natural lacquer? My teenage preference for gloss black paint for everything would seem to be vindicated! Discovering gun-metal paint and opting for brown might not have been so helpful after all. Good point about the tyres, which I normally did in black too. Gun metal has always been a tricky point because of the widespread use of wood in making gunstocks but I felt that it gave the right image, even if not technically correct, to do all the weapons accordingly.
Only shiny in barracks or on leave. In my own late 20th century experience ('71 to '93) boots became dull very quickly 'in the field'. The leather gets wet and scuffed, such that no amount of polish can make them shine. We also used neatsfoot oil in an attempt to waterproof them which makes it impossible to shine. You can certainly keep them clean but not shiny. What squaddies boots were like during WW2 I'm less sure about but I doubt it was much different. I remember my father telling me that in North Africa soldiers' boots lost all their colour with wear and tear, and lack of polish, and were almost white, and that on other occasions engine oil, in the absence of anything else, was used to keep them waterproof.
The metal of modern military weapons is quite far from the gunmetal colour that comes out of bottles. It is less metallic and much darker, though edges will show wear and the natural metal will show. It 10mm, do you really want to go that far with detailing? I use 50/50 mix of Vallejo grey-black and gunmetal for small arms. I was wondering, how do you finish your figures? Do you give them a dark wash and then dry brush to highlight?
I use black for weapons. Particularly the Falklands stuff, SLR's by that stage had black plastic furniture, and the barrels always were black. Boots - you were supposed clean them once a day.
I don't game beyond 1941 at the moment and anything 'Cold War Era' is coals to Newcastle stuff to be honest, though I've always been tempted to do a Dhofar War project. Yes, you are right, most British, and US, small arms of that era had black furniture.
Quote from: ianrs54 on 04 June 2020, 05:29:15 AM
I use black for weapons. Particularly the Falklands stuff, SLR's by that stage had black plastic furniture, and the barrels always were black. Boots - you were supposed clean them once a day.
Be really nice to see some piccies.......But we never,ever will.
I use black with a dry brush of gun metal for small arms that were mostly metallic - MGS etc. For rifles, they normally end up a shade of brown. I do not normally pick out the barrel. I have done, but you cannot see it on the table top unless you use an unrealistic bright steel colour.
What's that got to do with boots? =) 8)
Quote from: Last Hussar on 06 June 2020, 10:16:46 AM
What's that got to do with boots? =) 8)
You need to read the whole thread. Gunmetal for weapons was brought up.
Quote from: John Cook on 06 June 2020, 12:04:21 PM
Gunmetal for weapons was brought up.
Might still be wise to have a stomach pump too.
I thought that British officers in WWII wore brown boots, and everyone else wore black.
I seem to think there was an episode of Dad's Army that mentioned this. (So it must be true.)
Quote from: John Cook on 06 June 2020, 12:04:21 PM
You need to read the whole thread. Gunmetal for weapons was brought up.
Stop defending Orcs, its against Mess rules.
Quote from: fsn on 06 June 2020, 12:10:39 PM
I thought that British officers in WWII wore brown boots, and everyone else wore black.
I seem to think there was an episode of Dad's Army that mentioned this. (So it must be true.)
Yes, British officers bought their own uniforms and their boots were brown, similar in pattern to the black ammunition boots of other ranks but lacking hob nails. I would be unsurprised if on service they wore the same kits as their men though. Officers still wear brown shoes on formal occasions. Desert boots were also 'fashionable' in N Africa.
Quote from: John Cook on 04 June 2020, 01:38:14 AM
The metal of modern military weapons is quite far from the gunmetal colour that comes out of bottles. It is less metallic and much darker, though edges will show wear and the natural metal will show. It 10mm, do you really want to go that far with detailing? I use 50/50 mix of Vallejo grey-black and gunmetal for small arms. I was wondering, how do you finish your figures? Do you give them a dark wash and then dry brush to highlight?
It is flattering to think I might finish my figures! Painting normally implies skin, weapons & equipment, boots and uniform. Anything else is a luxury. As a teenager that meant pink black and national uniform: three colours on a figure. As a teenager money was always an issue. Evidently over time that changed ... and so did periods. As a young man I got interested in Renaissance (nobody [ie Airfix] did the figures) and Ancients so reverting to moderns has brought fresh challenges.
The effects of campaigning is a tough one as we expect barrack-style finish rather than sun-bleached used effects. I gather that the British Army of the Napoleonic era would have looked a bit of a mess as poor quality dyes would run from the red coats resulting in more of an overall pink-stained hue reduced by sun-bleaching to a crumpled ragged mess of off-white, red and pink. Never seen anything like that. Personally, I dislike mixing paints because of the difficulty of ensuring replicable colours. Charcoal grey-black would be useful for interiors such as driving compartments and aircraft cockpits. A most useful forum so thanks to everyone.
Certainly in 10mm...(and I also think that it probably applies in larger scales, too)... BLACK is TOO BLACK! It stands out too much...unless washed/dirtied up so that it is immaterial, anyway!
I prefered an 'off black'. Revell 'Anthracite' was MY go to, although I think that there is an equivalent Vallejo shade.
Shakos, packs, Berets, boots, C20 weapons...all 'off black' with highlights of whatever!
I have not been in the Forces, however, I rather think that 'cleaning', (polishing?), may have been meant to help maintain the leather...and provide a 'normal' activity...even if THAT was 'grousing about it'! ;)
MY civilian workboots, after one or two cleans/polishes, tended to be so scuffed that it was not woth the effort...and DEFINITELY NOT BLACK! LOL!
Polishing is to keep the leather water tight, you don't need to shine to do that but it proves the boots have been polished.
Quote from: hammurabi70 on 06 June 2020, 06:35:12 PM
The effects of campaigning is a tough one as we expect barrack-style finish rather than sun-bleached used effects. I gather that the British Army of the Napoleonic era would have looked a bit of a mess as poor quality dyes would run from the red coats resulting in more of an overall pink-stained hue reduced by sun-bleaching to a crumpled ragged mess of off-white, red and pink. Never seen anything like that. Personally, I dislike mixing paints because of the difficulty of ensuring replicable colours. Charcoal grey-black would be useful for interiors such as driving compartments and aircraft cockpits. A most useful forum so thanks to everyone.
If you mix colours a little up, a little down, you'll soon get that mismatched look and get away from the parade ground ;)
Quote from: John Cook
Yes, British officers bought their own uniforms and their boots were brown, similar in pattern to the black ammunition boots of other ranks but lacking hob nails. I would be unsurprised if on service they wore the same kits as their men though. Officers still wear brown shoes on formal occasions. Desert boots were also 'fashionable' in N Africa.
So I have read, the British Army started and ended the war with officers officially in brown boots, OR's in black, but from something like mid '40-early '44 (dates likely wrong, I'd go and check instead of craftily knocking a reply off at work!) they wore black boots - not so much from it being a tactically good idea to sop them standing out (I suspect after five mins in the field everyone's boots are the same shade of mud-dust and even the best eyed sniper probably can't tell the difference!), but rather because it made production and supply a damn sight easier.
Boots, black, thousands of 'em and don't fanny about with special orders means more boots quicker and no time lost for the QM to have to do special orders/cater to peculiar officer requirements ;) That reverted once the situation was more normalised, I have feeling it was '43 not '44 but I could be wrong and it was '45 :D
Quote from: toxicpixie on 14 August 2020, 08:51:45 AM
So I have read, the British Army started and ended the war with officers officially in brown boots, OR's in black, but from something like mid '40-early '44 (dates likely wrong, I'd go and check instead of craftily knocking a reply off at work!) they wore black boots - not so much from it being a tactically good idea to sop them standing out (I suspect after five mins in the field everyone's boots are the same shade of mud-dust and even the best eyed sniper probably can't tell the difference!), but rather because it made production and supply a damn sight easier.
The Americans wore brown boots.
Just because they're technically and industrially advanced enough to give everyone officers boots doesn't mean we have to be!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 14 August 2020, 09:16:03 AM
Just because they're technically and industrially advanced enough to give everyone officers boots doesn't mean we have to be!
More socio-political, I think. Not so much of the masters and servants thing going on . . .
I suspect you're very right, with that.