Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: Morty on 28 January 2020, 06:19:55 PM

Title: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Morty on 28 January 2020, 06:19:55 PM
Can anyone please advise me in the best Vallejo shade of blue to use for French line infantry uniform coats during the opening battles of the Franco-Prussian war?
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 28 January 2020, 07:02:21 PM
Erm...
I always use Coat d'Arms Deadly Nighshade, black ink wash, and highlight with DN again...

Sorry.
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Leon on 29 January 2020, 12:06:06 AM
I think you'd be looking at something like VAL925 - Blue or VAL965 - Prussian Blue, but I'd need to check the Vallejo racks tomorrow to make sure it's the right one.  We normally recommend a lighter shade than usual for 10mm figures, to make them more visible.

VAL925:
(https://pendraken.co.uk/_img/products/3739/VAL925.jpg)

VAL965:
(https://pendraken.co.uk/_img/products/3738/VAL965.jpg)
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Shecky on 29 January 2020, 04:42:35 AM
I use a base of Vallejo dark Prussian blue with a highlight of either Prussian blue or flat blue (lately it's been more flat blue for the French coats).
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: mollinary on 29 January 2020, 07:32:01 AM
Bear in mind that the French greatcoat, which was worn by troops in 1870, was much lighter blue than the tunic, and than the Prussian uniform. I believe the mix included  10% white wool, if I recall correctly
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Westmarcher on 29 January 2020, 10:54:32 AM
Quote from: Leon on 29 January 2020, 12:06:06 AM
We normally recommend a lighter shade than usual for 10mm figures, to make them more visible.


As an aside, I know that is a common mantra in the hobby but, personally, I don't buy it. I just can't imagine a commander standing on a hill, screwing his eyes as he watches his troops away in the distance and then saying to one of his aides, "Issue the following Standing Order. Henceforth, all uniforms are to be lightened to make them stand out in the distance."   :-B

My 10mm SYW Prussians are painted Dark Prussian Blue and, as I hope many Honours of War Forum members will agree (I can easily post photos there but not here), when you add the rest (white straps, facing colours, etc.) they stand out very well ... and, as such, are more authentic (imo).
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: FierceKitty on 29 January 2020, 11:02:26 AM
Out of principle, I have to support a fellow SYW fan.
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Morty on 29 January 2020, 11:06:05 AM
Thank you all for your very helpful replies.

I have done my Prussians in 'dark Prussian Blue' as well and was slightly regretting it but that has encouraged me. Being fairly new to 10mm I am seeing the need to make the figures 'pop' on the table but I think this can be done in other ways such as the colour or the playing surface/mat/board.
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 29 January 2020, 01:23:08 PM
There seems something wrong with using Prussian blue on a French uniform...

Facts of the day:

Prussian blue was the first modern synthetic pigment and the first relatively stable and lightfast blue pigment.
It displaced the very expensive lapis lazuli (Ultramarine), murex snail (Tyrian purple) and somewhat less expensive, but less fast Indigo dye.
It is not water soluble, so dyeing relies on colloidal dispersal of particles within the material, and precise colour depends on size of the particles.

It also occurs on the World Health Organisations list of essential medicines.
The most important medical requirements for a basic health system.
It's medical quality is as an antidote to some types of heavy metal poisoning including radioactive isotopes of caesium.

Prussian blue was the traditional blue ink in blueprints and dyed the uniforms of the Prussian army since the 17th century.

Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Terry37 on 30 January 2020, 03:24:58 AM
I am a fan of smaller going lighter. Ture it may not seem as authentic, but then what would be the "authentic" shade after being in the weather! For me using a slightly lighter shade is more of a modeling technique than accuracy. Bottom line though - use what ever shade you feel is the right one for you. I've found an element of infantry in very dark blue coats may or may not fight just as well as those in middle blue coats - it all depends on the commander and Lady Luck!!!

Terry
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 30 January 2020, 10:42:57 AM
Objects at a distance don't get lighter, they get greyer.

Which reminds me, must get some more shampoo.
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 30 January 2020, 01:06:30 PM
 =O =D>
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 31 January 2020, 01:40:03 PM
Steve you are right, but its well outside effective small arms fire range. I'm on the phone at the moment, but the distances are in the book "Firepower" by H.B.C. Rodgers. From memory you cant distinguish shakos at 600m.

IanS
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Chris Pringle on 31 January 2020, 02:09:32 PM
http://thehelpfulartteacher.blogspot.com/2010/11/landscapes-continuedatmospheric.html
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Chad on 31 January 2020, 02:32:11 PM
Dark blue-grey with a dark blue wash.
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: John Cook on 03 February 2020, 03:39:48 PM
Google the French military artists Eduard Detaille and Alphonse de Neuville, particularly the latter, for their paintings of 1870.  Lots of examples in their work from Napoleonic to 1870. 

I find that Vallejo Dark Prussian Blue 70-899, washed in Sepia 73-200 and finished with a white dry (very dry) brushing, applied lightly with a large soft brush, works well for my 1914 French.  I use Vallejo Dark Prussian Blue for all dark blue uniforms from the early 18th Century, through Napoleonic and ACW to WW1.

I agree with Westmarcher.  I'm also not a fan of going lighter with smaller size figures.  The effects, that I have seen, result in something far too garish in my view though I do think a dry brush in white is essential to bring the figures 'to life'.

Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 03 February 2020, 05:19:21 PM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 31 January 2020, 01:40:03 PM
Steve you are right, but its well outside effective small arms fire range. I'm on the phone at the moment, but the distances are in the book "Firepower" by H.B.C. Rodgers. From memory you cant distinguish shakos at 600m.

IanS

"This phenomenon is known as 'Atmospheric Perspective'. Things appear to fade off into the distance because of dust, humidity and air pollution in the atmosphere".

It could be argued, that black powder era battles would suffer atmospheric perspective issues rather closer than a clear photography-friendly day.
I expect everybody has their own favoured approach to painting smaller scales.

Paint it lighter, so they don't disappear into the terrain.
Paint it greyer because (my favourite new word) atmospheric perspective.
Just dip it.
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Morty on 03 February 2020, 05:34:05 PM
I try to get the figures to stand out by using a light coloured surface on the gaming table - this is a cigar box mat.
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Morty on 03 February 2020, 05:35:27 PM
This is it I think...
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: paulr on 03 February 2020, 05:48:03 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd
Title: Re: French Line Infantry 1870
Post by: Orcs on 03 February 2020, 06:21:30 PM
I used Prussian Blue for French Foreign Legion in 10mm as the Dark Prussion Blue was too dark