Philology more than tactics, but it's interesting that some national adjectives can be used as plural nouns (Down with the French! or Death to the English! or The Spanish are determined but undisciplined allies), but others can't. Here come the German! sounds absurd, and The Australian have no beer left may be tragic, but doesn't sound grammatical.
Oh....
I thought you were having a go at me. ;)
Cheers - Phil
An old Engish teacher of mine (Mr Brick, Hawarden High School, long time ago) used to say "complete the sentence". Down with the French army! or Death to the English army! or The Spanish forces are determined but undisciplined allies). Here come the German forces!, and The Australian forces have no beer left.
But the nouns he uses are completely interchangeable in those examples.
Quote from: Techno on 13 September 2019, 06:47:56 AM
Oh....
I thought you were having a go at me. ;)
Cheers - Phil
Paranoia again Phil ?? :D :D
Inca works as a singular or plural - we defeated the Inca army, we defeated the Inca. Doesn't work with Aztecs though.
English is not a logically structured language. Who'd 'ave thunk it, eh?
Shocking.
Australianorum consumpserat cervisia. Just saying.
Australians spent ale? (according to an online latin-->english translator)
I fear this could degenerate to a Monty Python sketch
Quote from: John Cook on 13 September 2019, 12:40:52 PM
Australianorum consumpserat cervisia. Just saying.
Nope - just showing off your Boris Johnson style education.
Quote from Boris Johnson: I did Latin and Greek for 20 years and now I'm running the country.
Quote from me: And what a total pig's scrotum you're making of it!
Quote from: Leman on 13 September 2019, 01:28:29 PM
Nope - just showing off your Boris Johnson style education.
Quote from Boris Johnson: I did Latin and Greek for 20 years and now I'm running the country.
Quote from me: And what a total pig's scrotum you're making of it!
I don't think any of that does this forum a service.
Quote from: Raider4 on 13 September 2019, 01:08:19 PM
Australians spent ale? (according to an online latin-->english translator)
I fear this could degenerate to a Monty Python sketch
Ah well, context is everything when a language has no definite articles ;)
To be frank I am:
a) depreseed as f*** by the state this stupid bloody country has got itself in, and
b) depressed as f*** by those who wish to blithely ignore it.
Clearly time for me to really get my coat
DELETE
Quote from: Leman on 13 September 2019, 04:36:10 PM
To be frank I am:
a) depreseed as f*** by the state this stupid bloody country has got itself in, and
b) depressed as f*** by those who wish to blithely ignore it.
Clearly time for me to really get my coat
DELETE
To be frank,
a) I come here to live in a small bubble and just talk about toy soldiers
b)I wait until the Six 'O Clock news comes on to do my ranting.
I think you should stay and post some more pictures of your nice tables.
Yours not the only country.
Would Germen work?
I never know whether to use Scots (army) or Scottish (army). Which is correct (if either)? Is there a better term?
Quote from: d_Guy on 13 September 2019, 08:45:11 PM
I never know whether to use Scots (army) or Scottish (army). Which is correct (if either)? Is there a better term?
Scotch . . .
Interestingly you would say the German did this or the Italian did that when talking of an individual. But you wouldn't say the English or French did that, you'd say Englishman or Frenchwoman. It's interesting that for some the singular is also the possessive and others the plural is the possessive.
Could be something to do with the sounds at the end of the word. -ish and -ench are softer than the hard -an. So the softer ending English, Danish, Spanish, French, Dutch, etc vs the harder* German, Russian, Italian, Belgian, American (and many many more)
Other soft endings tend to follow the same pattern, e.g. -ese as in Chinese, Japanese, Sudanese, Portuguese.
...10 minutes down the etymological rabbit hole later...
Seems the harder -an style endings tend to come from the Latin names into English while the softer endings tend to come from German (ish) or Italian (ese). Presumably in other languages they use different patterns for singular vs plural possession depending where they get the national names from.
In answer to d_guy my understanding is Scottish is generally the correct term for the people. Scots I've only really seen used in relation to the language/dialect and in some archaic uses. Scotch meanwhile tends to relate to inanimate objects related to Scotland. So the Scottish people speak the Scots dialect while drinking Scotch whisky.
*No dirty jokes, I know what you lot are like...
But do cults of celtic Celts support Celtic...
Or it could be, do cults of celtic Celts support the Celtics...
Scotch. A peat flavored fluid which lowers inhibitions and inspires poetry. The Scotch army summons to mind a gathering of the Methodist WCTU.
There is also the Welsh Guards and the Royal Welch Fusiliers.
Quote from: d_Guy on 13 September 2019, 10:32:24 PM
the Royal Welch Fusiliers.
Which proves the Welsh cant even spell their own name ;)
Quote from: ianrs54 on 14 September 2019, 07:42:13 AM
Which proves the Welsh cant even spell their own name ;)
Sigh. Predictable. And tiresome. And sticking a smiley on the end does not make if funny
Can you just give it a rest please?
Quote from: John Cook on 14 September 2019, 02:25:09 AM
Nooooooo! That's a drink! :)
As I understand it, up until ~19th century it was the usual term used, but was then gradually replaced by either Scots or Scottish. So, your usage depends on what - and when - you are describing.
Dr Johnson always called them Scotch. But then, he always maintained he could move his upper jaw independently of his skull, so he may be an imperfect authority.
Quote from: Raider4 on 14 September 2019, 09:10:43 AM
As I understand it, up until ~19th century it was the usual term used, but was then gradually replaced by either Scots or Scottish. So, your usage depends on what - and when - you are describing.
I would like to scotch this right now. When I say Scotch I mean Whisky, as opposed to Whiskey.
As a very, very general principle I'd say Scots are a people, Scottish is a language, Scotch is a drink.
I fear my final piece of that list, pertaining to Scotland, would meet with the same censure as Leman's post. :)
No - the term for the lowland Scots language is Scots, and its a very heavily dilected(sp) version of English. Galic seems to have been restricted to North of the Great Glen and the Isles.
The term for Lowland Scots is actually Lallans, as opposed to The Doric, spoken in the North East .... and Gobbledigook, spoken in Glasgow :D
Do Lowlanders really deserve a name?
There's also an Ulster-Scots dialect, or "Ullans", spoken in the north of Ireland.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 14 September 2019, 11:55:00 AM
Do Lowlanders really deserve a name?
Well they are the majority.
There are more beetles than any other multi-cellular animal on this planet, I believe.
Do they speak with a liverpudlian accent?
Quote from: mmcv on 13 September 2019, 09:19:41 PM
Interestingly you would say the German did this or the Italian did that when talking of an individual. But you wouldn't say the English or French did that, you'd say Englishman or Frenchwoman. It's interesting that for some the singular is also the possessive and others the plural is the possessive.
Could be something to do with the sounds at the end of the word. -ish and -ench are softer than the hard -an. So the softer ending English, Danish, Spanish, French, Dutch, etc vs the harder* German, Russian, Italian, Belgian, American (and many many more)
Other soft endings tend to follow the same pattern, e.g. -ese as in Chinese, Japanese, Sudanese, Portuguese.
...10 minutes down the etymological rabbit hole later...
Seems the harder -an style endings tend to come from the Latin names into English while the softer endings tend to come from German (ish) or Italian (ese). Presumably in other languages they use different patterns for singular vs plural possession depending where they get the national names from.
In answer to d_guy my understanding is Scottish is generally the correct term for the people. Scots I've only really seen used in relation to the language/dialect and in some archaic uses. Scotch meanwhile tends to relate to inanimate objects related to Scotland. So the Scottish people speak the Scots dialect while drinking Scotch whisky.
*No dirty jokes, I know what you lot are like...
Just guessing here.
Germans, Italians (add in Indians and another example) are distinct plurals, ass opposed to English, Scots, Dutch, Chinese.
Could the plurals be because the geographic description existed before the areas became unitiary states?
Just guessing here, and I'll freely admit it's more likely to be an inconsistency inherent in any Frankenlanguage that's a mash-up of Old German, Norman French, with a high proportion of international loan words form our colonial past.
Quote from: howayman on 14 September 2019, 04:53:23 PM
Do they speak with a liverpudlian accent?
Dey do doh, don't deh.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 14 September 2019, 12:16:59 PM
There are more beetles than any other multi-cellular animal on this planet, I believe.
With new models coming out each year, seemingly.
Quote from: howayman on 14 September 2019, 04:53:23 PM
Do they speak with a liverpudlian accent?
The mind boggles.
Quote from: howayman on 14 September 2019, 04:53:23 PM
Do they speak with a liverpudlian accent?
Nah - it be mostly Italian in Glasgee !
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 14 September 2019, 10:23:53 PM
Just guessing here.
Germans, Italians (add in Indians and another example) are distinct plurals, ass opposed to English, Scots, Dutch, Chinese.
Could the plurals be because the geographic description existed before the areas became unitiary states?
Just guessing here, and I'll freely admit it's more likely to be an inconsistency inherent in any Frankenlanguage that's a mash-up of Old German, Norman French, with a high proportion of international loan words form our colonial past.
It's an idea. We need to find someone who can read and write, don't we?
Quote from: FierceKitty on 15 September 2019, 08:53:27 AM
It's an idea. We need to find someone who can read and write, don't we?
'ad many books published ?
Quote from: ianrs54 on 15 September 2019, 09:37:57 AM
'ad many books published ?
Proves nothing. Dan Brown has had many books published, and he certainly can't write.
That's the very weird thing about Dan Brown.
I tried...... Oh how I tried to read one of his books a few years ago......and just gave up......I couldn't cope with it.
I think I read about twenty pages before giving up....It was TRIPE !
I listened to the same (audio) book some months later, having borrowed said book from the library van.
This time.....I thoroughly enjoyed it ! (And it was the unabridged version.)
That still doesn't make sense to me.
Cheers - Phil
Was it being read by Glenda Jackson or Ian McKellan or Jeremy Irons? Some voices could read a telephone directory and sound interesting.
Quote from: Techno on 15 September 2019, 09:58:29 AM
I tried...... Oh how I tried to read one of his books a few years ago......and just gave up......I couldn't cope with it.
I think I read about twenty pages before giving up....It was TRIPE
Exactly my experience.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 14 September 2019, 10:23:53 PM
Just guessing here.
Germans, Italians (add in Indians and another example) are distinct plurals, ass opposed to English, Scots, Dutch, Chinese.
Could the plurals be because the geographic description existed before the areas became unitiary states?
Just guessing here, and I'll freely admit it's more likely to be an inconsistency inherent in any Frankenlanguage that's a mash-up of Old German, Norman French, with a high proportion of international loan words form our colonial past.
It's quite possible, or to do with contemporary existence with the Romans for the Latin origins. E.g. Germania was the geographical designation for that area so the inhabitants became known by that name, but the Franks came into Gaul and gave their name to the geographical area instead. Then other countries followed similar patterns... though I'm sure there's numerous exceptions. I'm sure someone somewhere has studied this.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 15 September 2019, 10:27:37 AM
Was it being read by Glenda Jackson or Ian McKellan or Jeremy Irons? Some voices could read a telephone directory and sound interesting.
I THINK the reader's name was Jeff Hardin or Harding, Alexander.
I'm pretty sure I've borrowed a number of 'tomes' from the traveling library van, with him as the narrator.
He's a damn sight better than some I've listened to. Tho' he might go for a
somewhat exaggerated style.
A few of the readers (in other stories) have sounded like they've only just learned to read, and are using a finger to trace the words. ;D ;D ;D ;D
"He.....walk...ed down the.... corridor....look..ing from left....to right"......Gimme strength..... (I'm not joking.)......Those were painful to listen to.
Cheers - Phil
It's hard to believe some people go into acting. I remember a Juliet I was on stage with once; looked the part, more or less, but had no idea what the words meant, and did it ever show....