I painted a 15mm Covenanter officer figure last year. It gave me some trouble due to my ignorance of 17th Century clothing and because I couldn't quite figure out what the sculptor was representing with the coat and sleeves. I even made enquiry on the manufacturer's forum but no-one seemed to be able to come up with a definitive answer. One even suggested it was a tartan cloak (probably for no other reason than it was a Scots officer). Looking at my painted and based figure the other day, it suddenly dawned on me what I should have been painting. The figure was wearing a buff jacket with sleeves that unbuttoned lengthwise (and were unbuttoned). I've now re-painted the jacket and all is now right in my 17th Century universe.
This made me think of errors commonly made by wargamers not only because our knowledge of the era we are modelling in is not as good as we would like but also because our experience is fixed in the 20th & 21st centuries.
So, I thought it might be useful if some common era errors were highlighted somewhere. Feel free to contribute.
Wheel rims of wagons, carts & artillery pieces drawn by draught animals:
These are not bare wood so don't paint them the same colour as your wagon or artillery carriage. Think of the state of most roads in the pre-motorised era - rutted and interspersed with rocks and boulders. Considering the weight born by them, bare wooden wheels would soon be smashed to pieces. Wheels had iron rims. Paint them accordingly.
Pre-motorised vehicle dirt roads & tracks:
Modern country tracks generally consist of two dirt lines with a grass verge in the middle. This is caused by the wheels of tractors and other motor vehicles. In the age of horse & ox drawn transport, most wagons & carts were drawn by only one animal, therefore that middle grass verge would not exist because the animals would trample over that part of the road ....
Muddy Tyres
These should be painted mud colour (for whatever region) and then dry brushed a suitable black grey for the tire, as mud will stick in the tread of the tyre not on the part then contacts the ground. this is especially true on tyres with a deep tread
Horses (cavalry) have hearts and lungs, not, unsurprisingly, a diesel engine with turbo boost........ So why do rules give cavalry a higher movement rate and allow them to use it on every turn? (plus, they still get a charge bonus!)
Quote from: Westmarcher on 30 July 2019, 01:06:48 PM
Pre-motorised vehicle dirt roads & tracks:
Modern country tracks generally consist of two dirt lines with a grass verge in the middle. This is caused by the wheels of tractors and other motor vehicles. In the age of horse & ox drawn transport, most wagons & carts were drawn by only one animal, therefore that middle grass verge would not exist because the animals would trample over that part of the road ....
Roman shields
The shields on Trajan's column were for a specific time and place; in the millennium of Roman history, they were used fairly briefly.
Colours for grenadiers
In the SYW, grenadier units were usually "converged" from parent regiments, and thus did not qualify for standards.
Horses' eyes
Rather a lot of eras, admittedly. Horses have quite different eyes from ours.
Quote from: Orcs on 30 July 2019, 01:28:49 PM
Muddy Tyres
These should be painted mud colour (for whatever region) and then dry brushed a suitable black grey for the tire, as mud will stick in the tread of the tyre not on the part then contacts the ground. this is especially true on tyres with a deep tread
That is a good tip. Not thought of that way round.
Medieval Japanese
These should NOT have modern-style (1500s -) ashigaru. They should have more visibly flamboyant armour colours. No sashimonos yet. Cavalry should emphasise bows.
Pike and Shot Japanese
Guns, if used at all, should be on improvised mounts, not those widely-produced and seldom used solid wheel carriages. Cavalry should emphasise lances and melee arms. Ashigaru should use fewer bows, more pikes and muskets.
ACW uniform colours
In the mid-C19th clothing dyes were not colour fast so Union blue can vary from a dusty looking mid-blue to quite a dark shade. I have seen gamers on other fora fretting about which particular blue to use quite needlessly. Similarly Confederate grey doesn't actually exist. In the west some uniforms appeared to be white as they were undyed fabric; butternut was more commonly found early in the war, not later as is often assumed; many later war Confederate uniforms were in fact blue grey; some troops wore mid-grey whilst others wore a grey that was actually more drab in appearance. I knew none of this when I started gaming the ACW in 1966. All my Airfix Union troops had the same blue jacket and light blue trousers, and all the the Confederates wore the same grey coloured jacket.
The C19th French greatcoat
Beware the dark blue greatcoat. This was standard French infantry wear from 1840s Algeria right through to 1914. Trouble is it was not dark blue. It was an unusual shade of darkish blue grey that was more blue than grey. The only way I have ever been able to reproduce it is by using a dark blue base colour and then damp brushing with blue grey.
Green orcs, winged balrogs
Need I say more?
Hospitaller uniforms
The iconic black looks good, but they were in red by the time of the Mamluk wars, and in that climate who'd blame them?
Russian coats
The green coat certainly existed, but in the SYW at least was normally left behind for coolness; the rank and file infantry fought in scarlet jackets.
Napoleonic Prussian Cuirassiers didn't wear cuirasses!
SYW cuirassiers
The cuirass was a breastplate, not a breast-and-back affair, and was almost always painted black.
Wheatfields.
The current thigh/waist high species are fairly recent, bred for a time of harvesting machines and reduced demand for straw.
Back in the horse and musket era, the fields would have been much closer to the height of a man.
This has implications for cover, visibility, and advantages for the elevation provided by sitting on a horse.
Balrogs - being demonic can grow wings if they want to. Orks - definitely GREEN, GW say so. Orcs of course can be any colour you want.
Until we got chemical dyes in the mid C19th ? not dye was fast, colour changed all the time due to the effect wind and weather, so the bright acrylics we use are wrong. Other things wrong - red stars on Soviet tanks in combat, etc etc. US and Britsh crews mostly painted out their white stars as well, cept for the one on top for air recognition, although tahe was often covered by the fluorescent cloths which were issued for the same reason, pilots could actually see them.
The classic British police uniform is blue, no it's actually black.
IanS
Quote from: FierceKitty on 30 July 2019, 02:12:32 PM
Rather a lot of eras, admittedly. Horses have quite different eyes from ours.
In what way ?
The shape of horses' eyes, from
outward appearances, are as different as the outward variations in human eyes.
I've got six of the b*ggers 'in the fields.....and they're all different. There's only one (a little Shetland X) who has what I'd class as a really 'round eye'.)
Cheers - Puzzled of Wales.
The Shade of Blue in French Revolutionary & Napoleonic uniforms:
Speaking from personal experience, stay away from Humbrol "French Blue." :-[
The blue uniforms were a lot darker than many of us are aware. Yes, there was some lightening due to sunlight, etc., but if you are going to represent that, remember that the sun does not shine on armpits, in crotches or underneath arms and backpacks (so for small scale figures just forget it). A few colour drawings from the period perpetuate the idea that it was almost a mid-blue shade but the vast majority of paintings, etc., show that it was a very dark blue, almost black.
To get the idea, refer to paintings painted by artists who actually lived during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars and so, witnessed the colour of the uniforms; artists such as Jacques-Louis David, Antoine-Jean Gros, Francois Gerard and Claude Gautherot.
Quote from: Techno on 31 July 2019, 11:04:30 AM
In what way ?
The shape of horses' eyes, from outward appearances, are as different as the outward variations in human eyes.
I've got six of the b*ggers 'in the fields.....and they're all different. There's only one (a little Shetland X) who has what I'd class as a really 'round eye'.)
Cheers - Puzzled of Wales.
We have strongly defined almonds with a lot of white; surely your gee-gees don't show the pale bit unless they're terrified?
Common misconceptions about WWII are that battles were fought by homogenous units armed with standardized equipment, and that most of it the fighting was done by infantry with artillery support, with tanks being a relative rarity.
The truth (as forum dwellers will know) is of course that a typical unit would really comprise one armoured car, two or three tanks all of different types, a platoon of infantry of which one section would be from an elite formation, a field gun and a flamethrower. Battles between these typical units are best represented in 28mm on tables small enough to ensure the field gun has targets in range.
Aren't you forgetting the off-table naval support of a destroyer, four battleships, and two carriers?
Quote from: FierceKitty on 31 July 2019, 11:32:14 AM
We have strongly defined almonds with a lot of white; surely your gee-gees don't show the pale bit unless they're terrified?
Absolutely right, Alexander !! :)
For us.....Our beasts
never show the whites of their eyes/roll their eyes..... unless a vet......Or someone who, in their tiny little minds,
could be a vet, approaches, sticks on a head collar and 'holds the head down.'
(Then, the poop
can hit the fan !) ;D ;D ;D
Ah.....Right..
Sorry..... do you mean that folk try and give white dots either side of the pupil ?
In which case, I totally concur !!...That's
completely wrong.
(No-one can do that on one of the 'true scale' gee-gees......can they ?).....They're far too small....Surely ? (And I'll call you Shirley, if I want.) ;)
The majority of horses eyes would 'look' brown/dark brown....Most of the horses I've met/owned have had a darkish brown eye.....(If we ignore the pupil at this scale.)
There are a couple I've 'met' that have had a pale blue/gray iris.....and one with a 'red eye'.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 31 July 2019, 12:16:00 PM
(And I'll call you Shirley, if I want.) ;)
Cheers - Phil
OK, just not while my wife's listening, please.
Quote from: ianrs54 on 31 July 2019, 10:43:06 AM
Orcs of course can be any colour you want.
Orcs in the Warhammer world are green, those in other imaginary universes may be other colours.
And yes, it's odd about the police thing (although they may be a very, very dark navy?)
Oh my god! This is OCD paradise! :d :d :d
Obsessive? Compulsive? Disorder?
Embrace it. This sums up this forum and its members. ;D ;D
Age of sail, that nice big flag flying off the back of the ship... the wind is blowing towards the sails, otherwise you aint going anywhere.
Quote from: Genom on 31 July 2019, 05:40:51 PM
Age of sail, that nice big flag flying off the back of the ship... the wind is blowing towards the sails, otherwise you aint going anywhere.
AND the pennant on the mainmast!
Quote from: FierceKitty on 31 July 2019, 07:47:33 AM
Green orcs, winged balrogs
Need I say more?
The issue of 'green orcs' is undoubted, but the Balrog's wings are debatable.
Even Tolkien himself is undecided on Balrogs, as in The Lord of the Rings he states, as at the Bridge of Khazad-dûm, that it "drew itself to a great height, and its wings spread from wall to wall". However, whether these are true wings or just wings of shadows is not clear either. "His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings".
Do Balrog's fly? There appears no evidence that they do, but they do ride upon the backs of dragons (from The Simaraillion and the Fall of Gondolin).
PS: I like my Balrogs huge and with shadowy wings - but equally they could be twice the size of a man, with no wings, mail clad and fighting with axes and maces with fiery red eyes.
Each to their own :d
In Tolkien's world Orcs and Goblins are Elves perverted and tortured by Morgoth - so they should have light skins and fair hair but filthy with dirt.
In many ways the Orcs and Trolls in the LotR films are closer to what Tolkien envisaged than the green-skinned GW versions.
But Goblins are decribed as having a khaki colour (greeny brown) skin in Elizabethan poems
Medieval Colours
It drives me nuts when I see 'medieval' troops in Purples, Black or worse Yellow clothing. Especially lower status troops like Peasants.
Unless it is a specific livery colour - so Murrey (a Red/blue version of purple) as in the Murrey & Azure of a Yorkist (Edward IV) livery coat - or an Azure & Or (blue and yellow) livery (of Viscount Lovell) for example, these were very rare and expensive colours.
NB: Murrey is not actually a heraldic colour but a 'Stain' (as are Tawney - an orange-brown and Sanguine - deeper dark bloody red).
Black was also expensive, as the means of making Black, with oak-galls and iron-filing actually caused the woolen cloth to slowly disintegrate - hence why black clothing was expensive - it didn't last long!
Yellow is even worse because Yellow hoods were the badge of a Prostitute (as were stripey hoods) or worn as a symbol that the wearer was a Jew (& hence ineligible for military service - in western Europe anyway).
Also - livery colours have a pretty standard format - they should be worn with the 'darker' colour on the left (Sinister) when facing the wearer - so in the case of a Gules (red) and Argent (white) livey - the Red half of the livery should be shown on the left of the body when facing forwards. In the case of the Yorkist Murrey and Azure livery, Azure (as the colour, not the 'stain') should appear on the left out of the two darker tones.
It was possible to have a livery coat so that the colours were reversed on the back to the front and in the case of triple coloured liveries (such as that of the Earls of Northumberland - the Percy's in the early C16th at Flodden for example) - Tawney, Russet (a red-brown) and Yellow - the darker colour (in this case Russet - which was actually another 'stain') was worn on the left, with Yellow (Or) in the middle.
Anyway ... I digress ... most 'medieval' troops pre the late C15th were pretty drab - as even a darker blue or green or red was expensive to produce.
In the later half of the C15th the Swiss start to buck this trend as each canton supplied its fighting men with livery cloth to make their own clothing - but the smaller poorer cantos would still have had a lot of very drab troops in them, at least until they had successfully destroyed and looted the Burgundian baggage trains after Granson.
Yellow was fairly common due to natural dyes like onion skins, and you do get some areas where blues are more common due to natural dyes being available. (Pitstone Plums)
It's not its ease of production that is the issue Lemmey - it's the associations.
A bit like a bloke wearing a pink shirt in the 1960s - acceptable now maybe - but back then you would probably have been the target of physical abuse in a pub.
Tawney was acceptable - so a browny orange but pure yellow (Or) is a heraldic metal - it is fine on shields and as part of a livery coat or coat of arms, but wearing a yellow hood or yellow hose (trousers) would have ended you up in court with a fine (Sumptuary laws were really strict and often pretty tightly enforced) at worst but at best your mate would take the p*ss out of you something rotten.
I agree Blues can be easily made but it's how they are made 'fast' that is the issue as well - onion skin yellow is a really difficult colour to make fast.
Hence why Irish and Scottish highlanders used saffron to dye their skirts yellow, but even that slowly fades, especially if they have to be washed with soap made from ash and tallow, bashed clean on a washing stone.
British infantry
Regt colour on the left
Kings colour on the right
ALWAYS!
Understanding how cloths are made/worn (& that can include armour) really helps to understand how to paint them.
This is particularly true for C16th/early C17th clothing - especially for Landsknechts & Swiss.
If you think that a slashed jacket originally had a white shirt pulled through the slashing, from the inside, you can easily get the idea of what to paint.
So painting a red slashed jacket with one sleeve having blue slashing and the other green, is possible but slightly implausible.
Yes, a coloured shirt might have been worn (instead of white - although a white undershirt was standard male wear at that time) and pulled through the slashing but it was only later on when cloths were purposely made to include slashing (as a fashion statement) that a coloured lining for the jacket or hose might get pulled through the slashing, instead of the white undershirt.
Hose that were slashed at the knee, were often done so to increase their flexibility. So they might often just show natural skin through the slashing, or maybe the colour of the socks that showed below the knee down into the shoe.
If you think ... inside out ... as you paint, it helps get things to look more historically correct.
Quote from: Dr Dave on 31 July 2019, 07:05:28 PM
British infantry
Regt colour on the left
Kings colour on the right
ALWAYS!
Unless it's the Victorian period, when it's the Queens colour.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 31 July 2019, 07:27:54 PM
Unless it's the Victorian period, when it's the Queens colour.
And during the reign of William and Mary?
Toss a coin? ;D
Quote from: Dr Dave on 31 July 2019, 07:05:28 PM
British infantry
Regt colour on the left
Kings colour on the right
ALWAYS!
Is this when stood in the unit, or in front of the unit looking at it?
Quote from: Big Insect on 31 July 2019, 06:42:48 PM
Medieval Colours[/]
Black was also expensive, as the means of making Black, with oak-galls and iron-filing actually caused the woolen cloth to slowly disintegrate - hence why black clothing was expensive - it didn't last long!
I'm surprised about the black clothing - paintings (probably early renaissance) often show lots of people wearing mainly black. I don't know whether a black dye had been found / invented by then?
Quote from: fred. on 31 July 2019, 07:45:38 PM
Is this when stood in the unit, or in front of the unit looking at it?
When you're IN the unit. The senior colour (the monarch's for the less binary inclined!) goes on the right. Just like the grenadier coy forms on the right.
Quote from: fred. on 31 July 2019, 07:48:15 PM
I'm surprised about the black clothing - paintings (probably early renaissance) often show lots of people wearing mainly black. I don't know whether a black dye had been found / invented by then?
You are right fred - but these are usually higher class people in the portraits - Brugel paintings are a much better guide to painting 'common folk'.
It wasn't that the dye was expensive - oak-gall (also used as ink to write on parchment) and iron filings were relatively cheap - it was the fact that after a few washes the cloth fell apart (rotted).
I don't know when a better 'fast' non corrosive black dye was discovered (to be honest) - outside my period of research/interest anyway.
A bit like cochineal* though, we got a lot new dyes and colours into western europe after the 'discovery' of the new world in the late C15th.
*nice to know that for hundreds of year, any red food dye was made by crushing small red scale insects that live on the cactus that the Conquistadors brought back from Mexico :D
The recipe for black leather was lost for centuries. When it was 'rediscovered' it was a sign of prestige.
Thanks on both answers.
With the black clothing in paintings I wasn't thinking of portraits, more group scenes. But the ones I'm thinking of may be a bit later.
Quote from: mollinary on 31 July 2019, 07:34:00 PM
And during the reign of William and Mary?
2 queen's colours?
I've been listening to the rumours again.
I have memories of reading about a black-clad guards unit in Ch'ao China. Pre-imperial days.
Quote from: Dr Dave on 31 July 2019, 07:05:28 PM
British infantry
Regt colour on the left
Kings colour on the right
ALWAYS!
... and not forgetting it's the same everywhere: ACW Union infantry - national flag (stars and stripes) on the right, regt colour (often the blue field with eagle etc) on the left.
And not forgetting that the Foot Guaaaards! King's Colours are the plain crimson ones and the Regimental Colours are the Union Flag...
Quote from: FierceKitty on 31 July 2019, 11:15:58 PM
I have memories of reading about a black-clad guards unit in Ch'ao China. Pre-imperial days.
Probably so - again - a guard unit so something special by way of uniform colours. I think the chinese often went for a blood red as a standard uniform colour for those rank & file troops issued with uniforms.
I don't know how the Chinese dyed cloth way back when - my knowledge is mainly around the C12th - C15th in Western Europe.
Quote from: Ben Waterhouse on 01 August 2019, 11:34:53 AM
And not forgetting that the Foot Guaaaards! King's Colours are the plain crimson ones and the Regimental Colours are the Union Flag...
Of course yes :)
I really galls me when people paint beautiful figures and then get this sort of thing wrong. >:(
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( It has been reported in The Daily Mail that wargaming is bad for your health. Apparently there has been a huge increase in death by apoplexy amongst the ageing wargaming community. Still hate seeing Confederate units in a Gettysburg or any other eastern scenario sporting western theatre flags and vice versa.
The reason so many 17th century portraits (especially of the merchant/middle classes) are wearing black is because it was such an expensive fabric, to show of how rich they are.
I did see one reference, but can't find it now, that some 17th century Dutch artists had a wardrobe of black clothes that people could hire for their portrait sittings.
One I have not seen mentioned yet is the color of Bavarian infantry coats in the Napoleonic wars (and possibly other periods as well)! Drives me up a wall when I see a bright sky blue coat! In looking at vintage uniforms it is easy to see that it is more of a darkish cornflower blue, almost like a faded pair of dark blue jeans.
This link takes you to a thread and if you scroll down you will see a vintage uniform and see what I am referring to.
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=335167
Additionally, the sky blue listed for the French, especially for their Hussars was not a bright sky blue either, but a darker shade, closer to Vallejo Dark Sky Blue.
Terry
Trying to wreck the one thing people (including me) think they know about Bavarian troops? What a spoilsport.
Rivers
Rivers are not blue.
Neither is the sea !
Mersey is muddy brown - due to the silt being carried down in it.
Quote from: Raider4 on 02 August 2019, 06:58:02 AM
Rivers
Rivers are not blue.
Except the Danube, and part of the Nile. But this is a geography error, not an era error.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 02 August 2019, 02:52:45 AM
Trying to wreck the one thing people (including me) think they know about Bavarian troops? What a spoilsport.
My Bavarians are in bright blue in two scales and shall remain so - wall driving up has become my latest passion. Also, I need to differentiate the buggers from the Prussians.
Quote from: Leman on 02 August 2019, 08:21:08 AM
Also, I need to differentiate the buggers from the Prussians.
Are you suggesting ve are all straight, Herr Leman?
Quote from: Terry37 on 02 August 2019, 02:35:02 AM
One I have not seen mentioned yet is the color of Bavarian infantry coats in the Napoleonic wars (and possibly other periods as well)! Drives me up a wall when I see a bright sky blue coat! In looking at vintage uniforms it is easy to see that it is more of a darkish cornflower blue, almost like a faded pair of dark blue jeans.
That's a good one, Terry. When I had my Napoleonic collection (long since sold), I also made the mistake of painting my Bavarians a much lighter sky blue. If I had known then, would I have re-painted them? I don't know. Maybe, eventually. And if anyone had pointed it out, would I have gone in a huff? Why would I? Isn't it good to gain knowledge (even if slightly disappointing to hear the news you got it wrong)? And, if I did know when drawn to my attention, it's usually fun to discuss further.
Quote from: Raider4 on 02 August 2019, 06:58:02 AM
Rivers
Rivers are not blue.
Rivers, like hobbits, are tricksie. They reflect whatever the colour of the sky is, whatever is on the bank or crossing over it, whatever is flowing through it (mud, etc.) and what is lying or growing underneath.
The Loire and the Sarthe were very blue yesterday
I think most people forget that dyes varied from batch to batch, talk less of the effects of sun, rain and washing etc. Modern paints vary from batch to batch and you can buy paints for car repairs that have the effects of weather already factored in. Also we should 'scale' down the colours to make them less bright. Personally I don't worry about the exact shade of blue etc, as long as my units look rigth, them I'm happy.
Rivers I paint blue because I like them that way!
Quote from: Steve J on 02 August 2019, 09:34:00 AM
I (...)
Rivers I paint blue because I like them that way!
And because I want to distinguish them from my roads and trails ! :P ;D
( all are home made )
Quote from: mad lemmey on 02 August 2019, 09:18:35 AM
The Loire and the Sarthe were very blue yesterday
I live near the Loire and it's mainly .. low ! ( where were you Lemmey ?)
( very interesting topic, by the way )
You should see the Chao Praya; makes Pratchett's Ankh river look like a trout stream. A few years ago an American tourist fell into one of the connected canals and died of dysentry within 24 hours! (alarming thing is that one sees local kids swimming in them sometimes)
Quote from: ronan on 02 August 2019, 10:06:09 AM
I live near the Loire and it's mainly .. low ! ( where were you Lemmey ?)
10km south of Alaçon and we went to see the Elephant at Nantés.
There is ONE thing that I sometimes spot that makes me roll my eyes.
Daubed on walls......by either ultra right wing groups.....Or by those demonstrating against folk of that persuasion.
The Nazi swastika with the 'arms' going the wrong way.
I'm no historian, as you all know.....But even I know that one. =)
No rants, PLEASE. ;)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: mad lemmey on 02 August 2019, 12:12:48 PM
10km south of Alaçon and we went to see the Elephant at Nantés.
Nantes ? I live near Nantes ! I hope you enjoyed my city ( but you may not like the road trafic )
Quote from: Techno on 02 August 2019, 12:45:19 PM
Daubed on walls......by either ultra right wing groups.....Or by those demonstrating against folk of that persuasion.
I've read somewhere (and used it in my games) there was a problem with US soldiers in the middle east, many walls were tagged with graffitis from gangs (!)
The worst "error" i dislike (hate ?) is the Uber soldier effect... Mainly in the WW2 era or Napoleon's era (the french guard). I don't want to find tigers or panthers everywhere, I don't want to find full equiped divisions (paper-strength ) etc. I used to met players like this in clubs (I could wrote a book on this subject !). Now I'm playing with friends and most of them are OK.
Quote from: Techno on 02 August 2019, 12:45:19 PM
There is ONE thing that I sometimes spot that makes me roll my eyes.
Daubed on walls......by either ultra right wing groups.....Or by those demonstrating against folk of that persuasion.
The Nazi swastika with the 'arms' going the wrong way.
I'm no historian, as you all know.....But even I know that one. =)
No rants, PLEASE. ;)
Cheers - Phil
I think you're dredging the same IQ levels as the "patriots" so often pictured with an inverted Union flag
Quote from: ronan on 02 August 2019, 04:00:24 PM
Nantes ? I live near Nantes ! I hope you enjoyed my city ( but you may not like the road trafic )
I've read somewhere (and used it in my games) there was a problem with US soldiers in the middle east, many walls were tagged with graffitis from gangs (!)
The worst "error" i dislike (hate ?) is the Uber soldier effect... Mainly in the WW2 era or Napoleon's era (the french guard). I don't want to find tigers or panthers everywhere, I don't want to find full equiped divisions (paper-strength ) etc. I used to met players like this in clubs (I could wrote a book on this subject !). Now I'm playing with friends and most of them are OK.
In Napoleonics, it makes a lot more sense to have a French all-garde force than the regular serving of 8 line battalions, 3 legere and one old guard.
A good set of rules / scenario will seek balance between quality and quantity.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 02 August 2019, 05:13:42 PM
In Napoleonics, it makes a lot more sense to have a French all-garde force than the regular serving of 8 line battalions, 3 legere and one old guard.
A good set of rules / scenario will seek balance between quality and quantity.
Indeed. But where's the fun ? Crushing the other player ?
( But i like when it happens during a campaign, It's well desserved)
Yes, the traffic was interesting, especially the contra-flow in Avenue Seattle.
The Elephant was awesome, so was the carousel.
Quote from: Raider4 on 02 August 2019, 06:58:02 AM
Rivers
Rivers are not blue.
Rivers are often blue... if the water's clear enough of sediment. Not particularly due to reflection of the sky as is often thought but because water is slightly blue due to the refraction of light waves and the larger the concentration of water the more blue it looks.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 02 August 2019, 05:52:56 PM
Yes, the traffic was interesting, especially the contra-flow in Avenue Seattle.
You
were driving on the correct side of the road.....weren't you, Will ? ;)
Cheers - Phil
Well, I was, everyone else wasn't, although they were jolly friendly, waving and beeping to say hello.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 03 August 2019, 06:14:10 AM
Well, I was, everyone else wasn't, although they were jolly friendly, waving and beeping to say hello.
;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
;D ;D ;D
Why DID we end up with different countries using the opposite sides of the road ?
I think we should be told !
Cheers - Phil
Well we drive on the left to keep your sword arm free, but our trains "drive" on the right ! Think other countries drive on the right to allow driver to change gear with the right hand. Mind you friend of mine had a 1930's Morris in his garage and the pedals were from left : foot brake, clutch, and accelerator. Also driven a Japanese car with indicators on left and wipers on right. Kept wiping the windows when I wanted to indicate.
IanS
Merseyrail certainly drives on the left although the driver sits on the left to be able to see signals clearly. Canal boats drive on the right.
Quote from: ianrs54 on 03 August 2019, 09:46:31 AM
. . . but our trains "drive" on the right !
GB trains drive on the left as standard.
Quote from: ronan on 02 August 2019, 05:44:01 PM
Indeed. But where's the fun ? Crushing the other player ?
( But i like when it happens during a campaign, It's well desserved)
The fun is that the alliance player gets far more troops, particularly cavalry, so your veteran infantry can't guarantee secure flanks or space to manoeuvre.
Quote from: Techno on 03 August 2019, 09:14:43 AM
Why DID we end up with different countries using the opposite sides of the road ?
I think we should be told !
Cheers - Phil
Something to do with mounting ridden horses and the position of wagon drivers.
Default left hand since a sword wearer (and all other civilised folk) climb on their horse from its left, and don't wish to mount from the middle of the road.
USA and France introduced larger wagons drawn by paired teams of horses.
The driver sat on the left-rear horse to best control the team, which led to a preference for driving on the right.
Other countries varied, but the Code Napoleon standardised right side driving across continental Europe.
Queen Victoria's conquests standardised left sided driving across her empire.
Other places:
Japan drive on the left after British engineers helped build the first railways.
Indonesia inherited left sided driving form their Dutch colonists, and weren't subsequently subject to code Napoleon.
Apart form Sweden, I don't know of any other country that switched sides as motor cars displaced horses as the main means of transport.
Japanese traditionally mounted from the off side, I understand.
Danmark swapped on one day in 1948...
Nigeria changed from left to right after independence. The trouble is all the old roundabout are buggers to drive in and out of as they are configured the wrong way for driving on the right!
It's bloomin' daft.....isn't it ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Too late to change 'the whole world' to the same system, now. X_X
Cheers - Mr Stuck-In-The Mud. ;)
Quote from: Techno on 03 August 2019, 03:04:46 PM
It's bloomin' daft.....isn't it ? ;D ;D ;D ;D
Too late to change 'the whole world' to the same system, now. X_X
Cheers - Mr Stuck-In-The Mud. ;)
Variety is the spice of life...
When you lot switch to the right we lot will go metric. We should do it on the same day.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 03 August 2019, 12:04:37 PM
Apart form Sweden, I don't know of any other country that switched sides as motor cars displaced horses as the main means of transport.
Update: Loads of countries changed over, usually to conform to the standard among neighboring nations.
Roman armour
...was mail a thousand times for every once it was a moulded cuirass or a lorica segmentata, which didn't exist during the republic.
But Lorica was used from the Early Principate and used up until at least Severus.
Oh, certainly. Just tired of seeing Caesar or Scipio leading troops wearing it. Trajan's column and Asterix will answer for this at the last judgment.
;D
*MA in Roman Military History and feeling like a fight.*
Trajan's column shows a mix of armour, within the correct timeframe (and Goscinney and Underzo have done more for popularizing Roman history than anyone apart from Gibbon [who himself could/should feature on this thread]). I would love to do a Caesarian army of Asterix figures.
Think Obelix will have something to say about that 😉
Trajan's column is a thing of endless joy to a wargamer. I just object to the assumption that it covers everything.
Split Rail Fences
If you randomly nick them to break up the smoothness and add a touch of paint and/or a wash, cocktail sticks (of the round variety) with the ends cut off can make believable logs for entrenchments and fortifications. But not for split rail fences.
Firstly, split rail fences are made of split lengths of wood. Cocktail sticks (of the round variety) are, in effect, logs. So, it's probably better to use the straight edge variety of toothpick (as featured in the Fire & Fury ACW rules, for example) (but, even then, these are probably only suitable for the larger scales).
Secondly, what scale are your figures? Real life rails in a split rail fence are usually only about 10 or 12 feet long and are easily lifted by one man. So, for 15mm, the rails should be about 25mm to 30mm long, in 10mm scale, no more than 20mm, and in 6mm scale, no more than 12mm.
The cocktail sticks in my kitchen cupboard are of fairly standard size. But at 80mm long (60mm if you cut off the pointy ends) can you now see how naff cocktail sticks are for fencing? Scale wise, its a telegraph pole. It's far too long and too heavy for one man to lift.
So, when buying (or making) your split-rail fencing, choose carefully.
Split rail fences come in various types. I've visited a number of U.S. battlefields and have lots of photographs of period fences but, unfortunately, I'm naff at posting pictures so here are some examples in the following link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-rail_fence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-rail_fence)
The Asterix books were a set text for my Archaeology course at uni. Prof Piggot reckoned they were the best depiction of druids anywhere, at the time.
I liked it when Asterix and Obelix visited Britannia and were asked by their Celtic host if they wanted milk in their hot water.
(tea hadn't been discovered yet).
Westmarcher...
https://blotz.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23_57_187
Quote from: Ithoriel on 04 August 2019, 01:08:36 PM
The Asterix books were a set text for my Archaeology course at uni. Prof Piggot reckoned they were the best depiction of druids anywhere, at the time.
We have Druids doing an event in the local park today.
They've come quite a way since Getafix and his brothers.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 04 August 2019, 09:54:05 AM
I would love to do a Caesarian army of Asterix figures.
One of our 'local' DBMM players has one, it is a joy to behold :) :) :)
Quote from: mad lemmey on 04 August 2019, 02:29:26 PM
Westmarcher...
https://blotz.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23_57_187
Thanks, Lemmey. I had seen that mdf product when I was researching the market last year plus I already have mdf fences but from another mdf supplier. Harking back to the photographs in the Wikipedia link I provided, a lot of the mdf products out there (our own Pendraken do a two rail version) are quite passable for the fences illustrated in photos 1, 2 and 4, given the difficulty of reproducing something in 3D using a 2D medium.
Reproducing the type in photo 3 is a lot harder in mdf (although, again, Pendraken have come up with a reasonably good effort with their snake fence in mdf, the main downside being the length of the rails). The best reproduction in miniature of a 'split rail fence with supports' I have seen is the snake fence product by Total Battle Miniatures. TBM have researched this well and come up with a really good version in lead (see link below). But, whatever you end up buying, it surely has to be better than round cocktail sticks which, for the reasons already stated, may fool the uneducated eye and are just wrong. :)
https://totalbattleminiatures.com/bigbattalions/10-15mm/accessories.html (https://totalbattleminiatures.com/bigbattalions/10-15mm/accessories.html)
Just getting back to this one. Let me be clear, I would never recommend anyone repaint their Bavarians, because that is an un-needed effort. Being truthful, I always knew they didn't wear a baby blue, but was never really sure until I got some of the original Knotel plates on the Bavarians and then found that actual uniform on line. May be why I never got any Bavarians until recently.
Terry
Thank heavens Prussians have my heart.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 07 August 2019, 08:01:56 AM
Thank heavens Prussians have my heart.
Thought Lee did?
She's a darling and makes me happy in many ways, but may I never have to lead an army of Thais!
Quote from: mad lemmey on 02 August 2019, 09:18:35 AM
The Loire and the Sarthe were very blue yesterday
The Kabul river is very brown, full of human waste, trash and plastic...... ;D ;D :D