Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => General Discussion => Topic started by: Norm on 13 July 2019, 10:21:49 AM

Title: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Norm on 13 July 2019, 10:21:49 AM
A rambling blog post that considers storage and gaming space and functionality.

Link

http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2019/07/not-wargame-of-cobbs-farm-in-28mm-on.html
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Steve J on 13 July 2019, 12:22:34 PM
Good post Norm. I find 10mm and a maximum 4' x 4' table give me more than enough enjoyment these days. Even a 2' x 2' table works well for skirmish games or even compact BKC ones.
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 July 2019, 01:43:53 PM
Interesting post Norm.

After decades of fitting everything into the boxroom, I finally find myself with masses of storage and space for an 1800mm x 1220mm table .... at a point where wargaming seems to be contracting to a couple of dozen figures a side on a card table sized playing field!

Swimming against the tide, as ever :)
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: mmcv on 13 July 2019, 02:21:44 PM
Interesting read as usual, Norm. Having recently played games on bigger tables I can see the appeal of having large battles on large tables. Saying that I've played fun small and medium sized games on dining tables and kitchen islands with just a few adjustments to play and they've worked out well. There's a lot of flexibility in rules to adapt to your playing area, as even your recent small skirmish BP games have shown.

Huge battles have their appeal but if you just want something small, fun and quick going to a smaller scale or play area is ideal. 10mm is great for those grand scale epic battles as well as the smaller scale skirmishes, especially compared to the bigger scales which tend to all look like skirmishes unless you've got thousands of figures and your own airplane hanger table.
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Orcs on 13 July 2019, 02:51:03 PM
Like Ithoriel I have reached the same stage.

Played my first couple of wargames on my new 8' x 5' table last week.

I don't think it always mean you have to play on the whole area, it does mean you are more likely to have flanks that need defending or anchoring them on something.

You can play an enjoyable game of chess on one of those small travel boards with tiny plug in pieces, but most would prefer to play with a full size board and well made tactile pieces.

Likewise with wargames, there is nothing wrong with smaller tables, but the extra space often enhances the game visually if nothing else.
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Leman on 13 July 2019, 03:36:25 PM
From a slightly different angle - yes, bending over a 6x4 does put strain on my back, but not as much as sitting to paint. Solved that problem by now doing all my painting standing up.
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: petercooman on 13 July 2019, 06:37:46 PM
I am in a spot right now, where i have the stuff and intention to do larger games, but don't have the space/time.

I'm collecting everything in the hope that i will have the space available at some time in my life, and that by then, everything is painted and ready to go  :D


I do just as well with pendraken stuff right now, my BKC and ACW armies and soon my ancient armies give nice looking games that can be scaled 'as needed' to the space i have available. For 28 mm, skirmish games seem to do the trick as well. But there is just this feeling inside that makes me want to go big someday, and that's why i keep the 28 mm napoleonics going. And if i never manage to get to the point of playing those big games, well at least i had fun for years, looking into the history and the uniforms and such! Sometimes the time inbetween having a dream and making that dream reality is better than the rest  ;)
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: petercooman on 13 July 2019, 07:24:07 PM
By the way, nice post norm!

really shows how you can adapt your gaming to your current situation! There really is a game for every time and situation, you just have to find it!
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Terry37 on 13 July 2019, 08:29:09 PM
I still prefer 15 MM for my figures as they give me enough figure to paint with any detail for these old eyes. But I also enjoy the occasional 6, 10, and 28 MM figure that is needed. Vehicles are almost always 10 MM so they fit on the designated base size. For me a 2 ' x 2'  board serves the need for both HOTT and DBN.

Terry
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: grahambeyrout on 13 July 2019, 08:41:46 PM
I think that the satisfactory size of table is partly dependent on the period used as much as it is on the scale In other words a satisfactory table size related to the effective missile range of the massed infantry units.
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 July 2019, 08:53:54 PM
For me the only constraints on table size are players ability to reach the middle and their ability to move around it adequately, otherwise, the bigger the better.

But then I have no problem with games where I spend the first five moves wondering if there are any enemy present and the next ten manoeuvring for position.
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Westmarcher on 13 June 2021, 10:10:05 AM
I thought this might be of interest for those interested in wargaming in small spaces - a portable table, roughly 3" x 2," currently going for £13.99.

https://www.besthing.co.uk/products/xwcr8aelhdw6ea?fbclid=IwAR1MRKQEytXOrX1kWMty0FYPwaZCcENoM-XM8zVMzSIgE6TWxpLIW2v14wg (https://www.besthing.co.uk/products/xwcr8aelhdw6ea?fbclid=IwAR1MRKQEytXOrX1kWMty0FYPwaZCcENoM-XM8zVMzSIgE6TWxpLIW2v14wg)
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 13 June 2021, 10:39:24 AM
I'm running out of space but still buying stuff  :'(
Title: Re: A bit of an emphasis on the value of small scales
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 14 June 2021, 11:44:23 AM
Interesting stuff Norm and good reading.

You raise a spectre that few hobbyists consider when starting out.
Will this hobby carry me through to old age and physical decline?
I certainly wasn't thinking that way when I started buying Airfix, and there's no way I could have predicted the lifestyle and housing changes that have impacted most of the population.

Most of my friends who remained in London live in far smaller places than their parents (despite stepping up in qualifications and jobs), and a typical home has one room dedicated to cooking, eating and leisure (Television / videogaming).
The table is small, and serves multiple purposes for meals, home office (during lockdown) and children's homework.
The alternative of moving out beyond Colchester or Milton Keynes and spending 4 hours per day on a train is equally damaging to a hobbyist life.
I appreciate that this isn't the situation in most of the country, but it reflects one particular type of challenge.

Space and physical decline are factors to consider, and raise questions about the figures and rules we use.
I'm a fan of the reduced scale approach, with smaller battlefields, manageable armies and fairly simple rules.
You don't necessarily need all three, but they are a complementary set.

As for scale, it has been dome to death, here and elsewhere.
Those who like 28mm have their valid reasons - I would find it an attractive scale if I were a world class painter.
Since I am not a world class painter, I feel that smaller scales have less surface to expose my faults.

My own choice is now 10mm for new stuff.
I have a number of 15mm "works in progress" and find a different painting approach is needed between 15mm and 10mm.
A simple example would be the quantity of paint required for a single horse.
I manage a 10mm horse with a single brushload, but require three or four for a 15mm horse.