Pendraken Miniatures Forum

"And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer" - Hans Gruber, "Die Hard".

Gentlemen.

Whilst I do not wish to compare myself to Alexander I am scanning the horizon for the next big project ... and coming up empty.

For post 1900, I usually do 1:1 at platoon or company level. Pre-1900, I choose armies of 400-1000 figures dependent upon my level of interest. 

• Currently, my OOBs are: Trojan War  :-[, Peloponnesian  :-[ :-w, Punic,  Dark Age, Stephen/Matilda, 1314, Roses, WSS, Naps  :-w, ACW, 1898, WWI (Africa), Beau Geste, WWII (... lots), Korea, Zombie/SF.
• Non Pendraken is 1:600 in the air (1917-1973), Triremes, Nap naval, WWII Naval (1:600 and 1:3000) 
  
• Eagerly waiting for Greeks, Samurai, 1973
• I have no interest in: China, Aztecs, Crusades, Renaissance, Legume of Augsburg, Colonial Wars, Indian Mutiny, the C19 generally,  anything post 1980, Spanish Civil War, and fantasy.
• I'd love Pendraken to do chariots and Byzantines
• I could be tempted by ECW, a 'Chocolate Box' C19, Imperial Rome or Indo-China/Viet Nam. Problem is that as a solo gamer I have to create both sides. I quite fancy a Lorica Segmentata legion or two ... but who to fight?

So, Gentlemen, your thoughts? Whither now? There is always the option of expansion, but I constantly crave a bit of novelty.

The poll says I can only choose 2 options....

I voted Flodden 1 and ECW 2. These are what I do - everyone should do them.  Plus Pendraken has bunches of nice figures.
Plus you live there, mate. Plus most of the primary source are in sort-of English.

Late Roman, Sassanid and Early Byzantine - half the units are pretty much interchangeable :)

My first vote went to ECW - which, more accurately, is BCW or War of the 3 Kingdoms thus giving you expansion options into Scots Royalist and Irish armies (I'm assuming you would paint up a Scots Covenanter Army in addition to English Royalist and Parliamentarian Armies as a matter of course) and the future option of extending into the 30 Years War (with all of it's lovely continental armies). 

For my second vote, isn't Flodden, Renaissance (you said you had no interest in Renaissance)? But Pendraken have some great figures in the Flodden range so, OK, exceptions can be made. Anyhoo, for my second vote, I went for Late Roman - a refreshing change from the all conquering lorica segmenta armies (and their enemies have a more even chance of beating them thus promising more interesting games?). Late Roman armies also have the option of being more interesting (Eastern and Western armies plus guest star appearances from different types of allied foederati) and are nearer in time to Byzantines (which you hope Pendraken will branch into in future).

p.s. top marks for spelling of Augsburg, btw.   :P

Imperial Rome v (the soon to be released) Dacians

And

Vietnam - Huey's lots of Huey's

When you say Byzantine, is there a particular period you have in mind? There's a over a thousand years to choose from!

The one enemy the Romans fought the most often and consistently throughout their entire history was other Romans... When there wasn't Dacians to conquer!

Wars of the Tetrarchy could be interesting for more of a late Roman civil war.

Slight exaggeration. Romans of the Republic (pre-Marius here) didn't have time to thump each other much yet.

I think a few Trajanic legionaries in loricis segmentatis could be rationalised vs the Persians. As is pointed out so often, gear was expensive, and tended to be worn until past repair, so some luckier legions who had escaped heavy campaigning might well have been using older gear.

Late Roman and Sassanids as this project is self sealed. Clib has provided some amazing figures (especially if you use his Roman catafracts and Clibs rather than the existing Sassnids) if they aren't fighting each other they fight themselves.
Beautiful sculpts, wealth of detail and lots of colour.

French vs Bavarians,
Two colourful forces (Bavarians too) which could expand out in many directions.

I went for Roman vs Sassanid, mostly for the reasons already mentioned, plus it would be a good base to expand to other conflicts. Which is the same reasons I started these armies myself.

I also chose ECW, again for the reasons others have given.

Quote from: FierceKitty on 21 May 2019, 02:20:54 AM
Slight exaggeration. Romans of the Republic (pre-Marius here) didn't have time to thump each other much yet.

Well no, pre Marian they were typically thumping their slaves and their sometime Italian allies if we're being pedantic*  :P but if you look at a list of all their wars from their history as a whole, then most other enemies didn't last for more than a war or three, so they had to pick on someone who would provide a bit of a challenge every so often, namely themselves.


* As far as internal unrest goes.

Quote from: mmcv on 20 May 2019, 11:31:17 PM
When you say Byzantine, is there a particular period you have in mind? There's a over a thousand years to choose from!

Sorry, should have been clearer. I'm thinking of something to face down the Normans in Southern Italy. C11. Possibly with some Lombards.

Quote from: Westmarcher on 20 May 2019, 10:16:04 PM
(I'm assuming you would paint up a Scots Covenanter Army in addition to English Royalist and Parliamentarian Armies as a matter of course)

My thinking was more Covenanter, then someone for them to have a go at.

Quote from: Westmarcher on 20 May 2019, 10:16:04 PM
For my second vote, isn't Flodden, Renaissance (you said you had no interest in Renaissance)?

Yeah but ... have you seen the figures? It's them Swiss and Landy-necks I'm agin'.

Quote from: Westmarcher on 20 May 2019, 10:16:04 PM
p.s. top marks for spelling of Augsburg, btw.  :P

Which just goes to show that randomisation works- sometimes.  :D

Quote from: mmcv on 20 May 2019, 11:31:17 PM
Wars of the Tetrarchy could be interesting for more of a late Roman civil war.

Now there's a thought!  :-\

Quote from: d_Guy on 20 May 2019, 09:49:14 PM
I voted Flodden 1 and ECW 2. These are what I do - everyone should do them.  Plus Pendraken has bunches of nice figures.

I shall be perfectly honest and say that I would more tempted to do Flodden if we'd won. These two are the furthest from anything I've done before, so are tempting. I've always shied away from ECW because I think you need really big units to show off the pike/musket mix.  

Quote from: Matt J on 20 May 2019, 10:54:24 PM
Vietnam - Huey's lots of Huey's

Best soundtrack of any of the periods as well. If I did Viet Nam, I'd probably go Australians ... but then I'd have to do US Marines as well. I'd probably need to invest in quite a bit of terrain for this.  

Thank you gentlemen for your comments thus far. So far an Imperial Roman Civil War sounds fun, and Flodden is the period and campaign I know least about ... but the Covenanter grey is appealing and ... I haven't got any T34's and ....

I may have to lie down in a darkened room.  :( :'(

"And when Lord Oik saw the breadth of his choices, he lay down in a dark room and sobbed gently, for he could not do them all."

Quote from: fsn on 21 May 2019, 06:42:02 AM

I may have to lie down in a darkened room.  :( :'(

who let him out !!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I voted Flodden as it is a fascinating period and you can do the whole thing using Pendraken, and even expand it into Henry's invasion of France.
I also voted for France v Bavaria 1914 as this is a complete contrast to the Flodden  period, featuring modern weapons, but with both sides still using cavalry and the French still mostly in their 1871 uniforms.

Quote from: Leman on 21 May 2019, 07:38:56 AM
I also voted for France v Bavaria 1914 ... with both sides still using cavalry and the French still mostly in their 1871 uniforms.

This is what attracts me. It's like the end of the C19 ... and somehow poignant when you think of what is to come.

But I'd have to do Belgians as well.   :)

I voted 1944 Soves, based on my thesis that the most interesting games are when the Holy Trinity of firepower-protection-mobility is in balance, i.e., when firepower and mobility are sufficiently potent to give some depth to the battlefield, but without firepower dominating; which for me limits it to Napoleonics, 19th century, and WWII.

Seems odd to me to go for French v Bavarians 1914 on the grounds of pretty uniforms and the presence of cavalry, when French v Bavarians 1870 is the same only prettier and the cavalry is more use then. And the 1870 games would be better.

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/

Quote from: Chris Pringle on 21 May 2019, 09:02:08 AM
I voted 1944 Soves, based on my thesis that the most interesting games are when the Holy Trinity of firepower-protection-mobility is in balance, ....

Seems odd to me to go for French v Bavarians 1914 on the grounds of pretty uniforms and the presence of cavalry, when French v Bavarians 1870 is the same only prettier and the cavalry is more use then. And the 1870 games would be better.

Oooh! You make good points. The 1944 Soviets are I think, the one major force I haven't yet explored (though I do have 1941). I quite like the idea of a couple of Stalin's Organs on the table, maybe with some of the later heavies.

As for 1870 vs 1914 they are, to me, different games. 1914 would be company sized forces where one figure equals one man. Also has the attraction of adding in Belgians and British. 1870 is division sized at 1:20-ish. I will admit 1870 Bavarians are far prettier than 1914, though the French are little different. 

There is a school of thought that implies the Bavarians marched off to war in 1914 still wearing their cornflower blue trousers. I game 1870-71, but also game 1914 in 10mm for division sized games (i.e. Square Bashing) and 15mm for company sized games, and, yes, the Belgians feature in both.

"I shall be perfectly honest and say that I would more tempted to do Flodden if we'd won."

The majesty of wargaming is that the Scots are NOT required to lose.

Quote from: Leman on 21 May 2019, 07:38:56 AM
I voted Flodden as it is a fascinating period and you can do the whole thing using Pendraken, and even expand it into Henry's invasion of France.
I also voted for France v Bavaria 1914 as this is a complete contrast to the Flodden  period, featuring modern weapons, but with both sides still using cavalry and the French still mostly in their 1871 uniforms.

Great minds think alike Leman ... that early renaissance era - especially late Tudor is really interesting.
And the French V Bavarians will provide a really interesting challenge to play.

Cheers
Mark

I first thought 'French v Bavarians 1914' was a misprint for 1814 and you were going to do something Napoleonic, but you left the best period out so I plumbed for the WW2 and modern options.
To keep it untraditional you could do 1944 Soviet Cavalry corps and 1972-75 Vietnam armoured cavalry forces,

Mark

Five of my clan perished at Flodden, aye.

(Yes, we lost.)

Quote from: sultanbev on 21 May 2019, 02:44:12 PM
I first thought 'French v Bavarians 1914' was a misprint for 1814 and you were going to do something Napoleonic,

All in hand.   :D

I am rather fond of Bavarians, from the WSS onwards, so would like to keep the theme going to 1914.

Well that's got interesting. Early on, I thought it was going to be the later Romans and Flodden, but the polling now suggest ECW and Soviet 1944!

So it looks as if ECW (or W3K or Here come the *%^&ing English again) is well in the lead. I've been reading up about Dunbar and Aulderan, and am coming down on Dunbar as my campaign of choice.

I'm not getting excited by the Soviets, but have dutifully looked up the ToE for various Soviet unit types.

I have realised how completely ignorant I am about Flodden. To this end, I've downloaded a book for the Kindle and have Memorable Wars of Scotland by Patrick Fraser Tytler FRSE FAS on my bedside cabinet.*





*Not sure of the date but there is a plate in it: "St Luke's Sunday School, Wednesbury 1st Class. PRIZE awarded to William Bowine for regular attendance Advent 1901-1902" (The Midland Educational Co Lim, the City Booksellers, Birmingham & Leicester) Always thought it an odd prize for a Black Country Sunday School - a book about Scottish wars.  :-\

Occasionally book prizes were influenced by the interests of the recipient, occasionally

Anyone got a photo of the BW26 Oxen Team?

Is it any good for James IV's artillery train?

I voted Flodden and would have also voted Byzantines if my browser had let me. Both offer great oppotunities for using not just excellent Pendraken, but also MM miniatures.

I think Flodden has it, with ECW (W3K, HCTFEA) coming a close second.

Has anyone got a picture of ELM40 (Scots Highlanders)?

I DEMAND THE VOTE BE RERUN  :d

No - the great British public HAVE SPOKEN, so FSN must work to fulfil their desires !

Will not comment on that statement as people get very huffy! Anyway for what it's worth we all voted you go and commit hare kare (or however it's written in Latin script). I trust, as we have all voted democratically that, despite it being a stupid outcome, you will carry out the will of the electorate, even though a fair percentage of them thought it meant that all Japanese immigrants would immediately be sent back to Tokyo.

Incidentally, ECW and Flodden - lots of pikes and a bit samey.

Quote from: Cavillarius on 26 May 2019, 11:41:49 PM
I voted Flodden and would have also voted Byzantines if my browser had let me. Both offer great oppotunities for using not just excellent Pendraken, but also MM miniatures.

How should one pronounce Byzantines ? :-\

I was flicking thro' the channels a day or so ago, and saw that nice Bettany Hughes doing a short piece to camera, for what I assume will be another fascinating series.

I'm sure she said "Bizz-an-teens."
I've always thought that it was pronounced "Bye-Zann-teens."

Any clues, Gang ?

Cheers - Phil

https://youtu.be/vsQrKZcYtqg

Quote from: Techno on 27 May 2019, 12:12:59 PM
How should one pronounce Byzantines ? :-

I was flicking thro' the channels a day or so ago, and saw that nice Bettany Hughes doing a short piece to camera, for what I assume will be another fascinating series.

I'm sure she said "Bizz-an-teens."
I've always thought that it was pronounced "Bye-Zann-teens."

Any clues, Gang ?

Cheers - Phil

Romans.

FSN, if I may point you at two of the Twentieth Centuries greatest thinkers...
https://youtu.be/n9aYrURLHh0

Bizz-an-teen if you are British

Bizz-an-tine if you are American

Apparently.

Being a stickler for consistancy I tend to talk about the BYE-zan-tine Empire, Bizz-AN-tine bureacracy and Bye-zan-TEEN archictecture. As long as people know what you are talking about, who cares! :)

Followed by the salient points from the latter half of this notable debate
https://youtu.be/9UMedd03JCA

Quote from: Ithoriel on 27 May 2019, 01:33:52 PM
Bizz-an-tine if you are American

Quite so, unless we are referring to the title of the Yates poem which we believe to be a different place entirely.

Quote from: FierceKitty on 27 May 2019, 01:21:12 PM
Romans.

NO they wuz Greek !!!

Quote from: Ithoriel on 27 May 2019, 01:33:52 PM
Bizz-an-teen if you are British

Bizz-an-tine if you are American

Apparently.

Being a stickler for consistancy I tend to talk about the BYE-zan-tine Empire, Bizz-AN-tine bureacracy and Bye-zan-TEEN archictecture. As long as people know what you are talking about, who cares! :)

I've always pronounced it Bizz-an-tine. Never heard an American pronounce it and always assumed they didn't know anything about the Byzantine Empire as it was not around during the last 250 years, and as the inhabitants of California know, the Americans have a real downer on countries that build empires.  :d

Quote from: Ithoriel on 27 May 2019, 01:33:52 PM
Being a stickler for consistancy I tend to talk about the BYE-zan-tine Empire, Bizz-AN-tine bureacracy and Bye-zan-TEEN archictecture. As long as people know what you are talking about, who cares! :)

Wot 'e said.

Quote from: ianrs54 on 27 May 2019, 10:50:25 AM
No - the great British public HAVE SPOKEN, so FSN must work to fulfil their desires !

It was an advisory vote only ... beside which, I haven't given a date for the implementation of the policy.   :P

Quote from: Leman on 27 May 2019, 11:05:53 AM
Incidentally, ECW and Flodden - lots of pikes and a bit samey.

Yup. And both slot between the War of the Roses and the WSS. I'm looking at Flodden because I know do little about it.



Anyway, anyone got photos of Oxen or highlanders? Anyone?

Quote from: fsn on 27 May 2019, 10:30:02 AM
Has anyone got a picture of ELM40 (Scots Highlanders)?

Leon posted a pic of them here awhile back:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1443.msg13187.html#msg13187

I have a feeling the oxen are going to look a bit like oxen.

Looking for oxen now - in a bag somewhere  :)

ELM19 (Irish Gallowglass ) are also quite suitable for highland warrior class at Flodden.

Thank you d_Guy. Look like they might be suitable to mix in with the Flodden offering.

Quote from: Leman on 27 May 2019, 02:41:04 PM
I have a feeling the oxen are going to look a bit like oxen.

:P I was wondering about the yolks. 

Quote from: Leman on Today at 15:41:04
I have a feeling the oxen are going to look a bit like oxen.

Posted by: fsn
I was wondering about the yolks. 

Oxen in eggs? You must be yoking ;)

Please don't egg people on.

His brain was probably scrambled when he wrote that. :D

Cheers - Phil

Egg jokes?


(https://cdn.zmescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/giphy.gif)
It isn't even Easter!

Cheer up chick

eggactly