Just been nosing for some odds and ends on the Irregular Miniatures website, and came across the following note at the top of the page:-
"All Prices include UK postage, if ordering from outside the UK additional postage will be added at the checkout page. (This will be called "tax". There is an additional £2.00 charge for orders under £20.00)."
Interesting marketing scheme.
Shows how pampered we are by Pendraken
It does only apply to the people Ian would refer to as 'those foreign blighters.'
The additional £2 under £20 applies to everyone, including in the UK I believe. I'm just after ordering from them last week.
Definitely not clear in the quoted statement from Irregular.
Agreed, it's ambiguous. But it's definitely an extra £2.00 charge for orders under £20.
Quote from: Orcs on 30 April 2019, 11:01:08 AM
Shows how pampered we are by Pendraken
Ehh? Pendraken have a minimum postage charge of £2.50 - it may be worded differently but the outcome is the same.
Their statement says prices include UK postage unless the order is under £20 (in which case, there is an additional charge of £2). So, on that basis, a £19 order will cost you £21 but a £20 order will only cost you ..... £20.
Pendraken's prices do not include postage and, instead, UK postage is charged 5% of the order in addition (with a minimum charge of £2.50 and a maximum of £5.00). A £19 order with Pendraken will therefore cost you £21.50.
Either way, you're still 'paying' for UK postage.
Quote from: Westmarcher on 30 April 2019, 12:44:19 PM
Their statement says prices include UK postage unless the order is under £20 (in which case, there is an additional charge of £2).
? That's not how I read it.
"Prices include UK postage."
"There is an extra £2 charge for orders under £20."
A £22 order at Irregular will cost you £22. At Pendraken it will be £24.50. (Not complaining about this at all, mind)
Just don't understand why Orcs thinks we're being spoilt?
Quote from: Raider4 on 30 April 2019, 12:47:59 PM
? That's not how I read it.
"Prices include UK postage."
"There is an extra £2 charge for orders under £20."
A £22 order at Irregular will cost you £22. At Pendraken it will be £24.50. (Not complaining about this at all, mind)
Just don't understand why Orcs thinks we're being spoilt?
Isn't that what I said? (only difference is I said "additional" and you said "extra" - means the same).
Agree. Orcs has misunderstood.
Quote from: Westmarcher on 30 April 2019, 01:10:04 PM
Isn't that what I said? (only difference is I said "additional" and you said "extra" - means the same).
Yeah, pretty much. I just confused when you wrote "prices include UK postage unless the order is under £20", which suggest UK postage is not included under £20?
Irregular prices always include UK postage, the £2 charge is on top-of, not instead-of.
Have you compared Irregular's prices? And their orders tend to be a bit short of what you've paid for.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 30 April 2019, 02:03:20 PM
Have you compared Irregular's prices? And their orders tend to be a bit short of what you've paid for.
And equally importantly, compare the quality. I'd rather have 20 quid's worth of Pendraken than 50 of Irregular.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 30 April 2019, 02:03:20 PM
Have you compared Irregular's prices?
Well, that's a different kettle of fish entirely.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 30 April 2019, 02:03:20 PM
And their orders tend to be a bit short of what you've paid for.
Never had that problem.
Quote from: Nick the Lemming on 30 April 2019, 02:05:54 PM
And equally importantly, compare the quality. I'd rather have 20 quid's worth of Pendraken than 50 of Irregular.
But Pendraken don't do 6mm Medievals, so for me there's nothing to compare
It happened with my last three orders with them. And was part of the reason why those were the last three orders.
Quote from: Raider4 on 30 April 2019, 02:07:30 PM
But Pendraken don't do 6mm Medievals, so for me there's nothing to compare
Others do though. Baccus 6mm medievals are very nice. Plus you can tell what they are, unlike Irregular's.
Sorry. What's "an order less than £20"? :-\
I find irregular good at filling in the gaps and adding a bit of variety. The 10mm range, while nowhere near as detailed as pendraken, still have a bit of character to them. Makes then useful where there's maybe a limited range available from our dear hosts or to add a bit of variety, especially since you can buy models individually.
I got some bits as samples from their 6mm range recently and agree they weren't as clean and detailed as samples I got from Baccus in the past, though Baccus is relatively expensive to get samples from. Their 2mm range is interesting though, even if it is fairly abstract at that scale.
£20 doesn't seem an unreasonable min amount to make the order worthwhile.for them, though if you literally only wanted a couple of pieces the £2 additional charge could be irritating. But I'd say few make an order that small... Compared to most others who'll make similar pricing on P&P it's not too beyond the pale.
Quote from: Westmarcher on 30 April 2019, 01:10:04 PM
Isn't that what I said? (only difference is I said "additional" and you said "extra" - means the same).
Agree. Orcs has misunderstood.
I was not commenting on the extra cost. Irregular have been more expensive than Pendraken for some time.
On small orders you are paying the postage price in the figure cost plus an additional £2. Something that Pendraken does not do. An order of 90 10mm foot you are effectively paying postage of £3.80 or nearly 20%. Even so they are still far better than some companies that have a £5 or even £7.50 minimum postage
On any order over £20 you have paid 10% P &P (Twice what you pay with Pendraken. hence my pampered comment).
I was more interested in the marketing strategy as they are building in the postage cost with the figure price, by increasing the figure cost by 10%, thus making their figures look more expensive than they are, or do they think that being making the figures look "post free" over £20 they will make them look better value.
I wonder if it's something to do with the ability to order online now from Irregular and it's to cover admin charges from that
It is probably worth dropping Irregular a line and asking them how it works .... just a thought??? :D
(but I know that would spoil the fun of the forum ... sorry about that ... I'll get me coat!
Quote from: Big Insect on 30 April 2019, 04:12:33 PM
It is probably worth dropping Irregular a line and asking them how it works .... just a thought??? :D
(but I know that would spoil the fun of the forum ... sorry about that ... I'll get me coat!
If you want to question a Yorkshireman about money then Good Luck :)
I'd imagine it's to try and encourage people to order a bit more? We put the maximum postage charges in place to try and do the same thing, so folks who order over £100 aren't paying any additional shipping costs from that point onwards.
Quote from: fsn on 30 April 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Sorry. What's "an order less than £20"? :-
:D
Quote from: Fenton on 30 April 2019, 03:44:30 PM
I wonder if it's something to do with the ability to order online now from Irregular and it's to cover admin charges from that
Possibly, depending on how their site works. Some of the 'off the shelf' e-commerce sites can charge a hefty fee on every transaction, upto 3% in some cases. PayPal also charge for their service, starting at 3.4% + 20p for small turnovers and reducing as you put more business through them. We're currently on 2.4% + 20p per transaction which is generally fine. It only stings a bit on small orders or custom stuff where you're losing the 20p every time.
It's one of the reasons we don't sell individual bags of MDF bases on eBay, there's just no point. You sell a pack for £1.25 but then eBay take 19p, PayPal take 23p, and you've lost 34% of your sale already. So you end up only listing high value products, high profit items, or things that don't require a labour cost like the I-94 decals.
Quote from: fsn on 30 April 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Sorry. What's "an order less than £20"? :-
One where you have forgotten something and have to send an email to Leon saying "please can you just add this" followed by another one an hour later saying "and this" ;D
Not that I would ever do that :^o
Quote from: Orcs on 30 April 2019, 03:15:46 PM
I was not commenting on the extra cost. Irregular have been more expensive than Pendraken for some time ...... etc.
OK, See where you are coming from now, Orcs. Hands up. I've misunderstood. Apologies. :-[
As some have said, it could've been indeed worded better (I didn't spot the extra 2p added on to the 20p cost of the Irregular's foot and thought it was included in the 20p). At a guess, am I right in thinking that Pendraken is now not only better quality wise than Irregular (IMO) but also price wise across the board? <:-P
Quote from: fsn on 30 April 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Sorry. What's "an order less than £20"? :-
It's what you tell the Mrs.
Quote from: Nick the Lemming on 30 April 2019, 02:05:54 PM
And equally importantly, compare the quality. I'd rather have 20 quid's worth of Pendraken than 50 of Irregular.
Yes. Pendraken figures suitable for what you want... or what could just pass as Anglo-Saxon asiatic footballers!
Quote from: fsn on 30 April 2019, 02:55:42 PM
Sorry. What's "an order less than £20"? :-
...ummm...I think I saw one in a museum once, but you needed special permission to view it.
On reflection, this sort of thinng isn't unusual, it's just that Irregular appear to be stating it in a non-standard way.
The typical approach is "P&P is 10% of order or a minimum of £2.20".
It's fact that there's a minimum cost of delivery, even if the order's a single 2mm figure, so weems fairly justifiable.
Maths nerds will observe that Irregular's approach hits hardest when the order's up at the £19 range, while the traditional approach hits tiny orders hardest.
I've grown used to the £20 hurdle when shopping on (non Prime) Amazon.
I'll often add on some stationery, aquarium accessories or paperbacks to avoid the £4.50 postage charge.
All I can say is that Leon and company have only been super fair to me, so I am happy to pay what they need to stay in business. Wither it be large or small orders - but I suspect to those of you who are dedicated 10 MM gamers, all of my orders would be small since I am really a 15 MM gamer. That said though, too many things Leon offers still fit mighty nicely in my projects!
Terry
Increasingly, in the tough retail sector, it is becoming more important to target your spend on those places that are important to you and that you want to ensure a future trading relationship with. This is true of everything , whether it be a fave coffee shop, camera shop, local corner store, high street book shop or a figure supplier. This was virtually my sole driving force for buying / supporting BKCIV (which hopefully will arrive today :-), I have had my shipping notice).
Irregular, like most of our industry are good hard working people and like most in the industry are not driving around in the latest swankiest cars or hoarding their money in off-shore accounts. It is a tough tough climate for them and I am confident that for the most part, we are getting a good deal from traders in general and the wargaming world would be a poorer place without them ..... especially in our smaller scales, which is a much more fragile sector of the market than 28's.
Many (many!) moons ago, as a teenager, I was buying from Irregular, heroics and Ros and Skytrex at pocket money level, with Postal Orders (remember them) and was getting spanked on postal charges, relative to the small orders that fall out of pocket money purchases (and postal order commission and the cost of the stamp!), so it has always been a factor in low cost purchasing. (remember self stamp addressed envelopes to get a company catalogue? :-) ).
Quote from: Terry37 on 02 May 2019, 03:24:19 AM
All I can say is that Leon and company have only been super fair to me, so I am happy to pay what they need to stay in business.
Careful ...
Quote from: Terry37 on 02 May 2019, 03:24:19 AM
... all of my orders would be small since I am really a 15 MM gamer.
15mm is dead. It just doesn't know it yet.
Quote from: Norm on 02 May 2019, 05:03:14 AM
Many (many!) moons ago, as a teenager, I was buying from Irregular, heroics and Ros and Skytrex at pocket money level, with Postal Orders (remember them) and was getting spanked on postal charges, relative to the small orders that fall out of pocket money purchases (and postal order commission and the cost of the stamp!), so it has always been a factor in low cost purchasing. (remember self stamp addressed envelopes to get a company catalogue? :-) ).
Yes, I do remember postal orders :-[
And the cost of postage to the UK :o
I am very grateful to one of my Aunts who kindly allowed me to have my early orders sent to her in the UK and the even more kindly forwarded them to the Antipodes
This allowed me to avoid both the 50%+ International postage charges of those times and the attention of the local Customs officials when my 'gift' arrived :) ;)
Quote from: Norm on 02 May 2019, 05:03:14 AM
Increasingly, in the tough retail sector, it is becoming more important to target your spend on those places that are important to you and that you want to ensure a future trading relationship with. This is true of everything , whether it be a fave coffee shop, camera shop, local corner store, high street book shop or a figure supplier. This was virtually my sole driving force for buying / supporting BKCIV (which hopefully will arrive today :-), I have had my shipping notice).
Irregular, like most of our industry are good hard working people and like most in the industry are not driving around in the latest swankiest cars or hoarding their money in off-shore accounts. It is a tough tough climate for them and I am confident that for the most part, we are getting a good deal from traders in general and the wargaming world would be a poorer place without them ..... especially in our smaller scales, which is a much more fragile sector of the market than 28's.
Many (many!) moons ago, as a teenager, I was buying from Irregular, heroics and Ros and Skytrex at pocket money level, with Postal Orders (remember them) and was getting spanked on postal charges, relative to the small orders that fall out of pocket money purchases (and postal order commission and the cost of the stamp!), so it has always been a factor in low cost purchasing. (remember self stamp addressed envelopes to get a company catalogue? :-) ).
Well said Norm. Ian Kay is one of the originals - a one man band who must deserve a place in the history of war game figure manufacture with the diversity of ranges from 2mm to 75mm ! Yes, there is variable quality control - but if you are not happy - Ian will ALWAYS refund .
In most of my armies there is at least one key piece of kit or figures that.....only IM supplies.
Quote from: Norm on 02 May 2019, 05:03:14 AM
Increasingly, in the tough retail sector, it is becoming more important to target your spend on those places that are important to you and that you want to ensure a future trading relationship with. .........
I totally agree with you Norm. I am not knocking Irregular, they have given me good value and excellent service for many years. The cost will not put me off, as its easy to get to the £20 mark anyway. I just thought the way they had put it made it an interesting marketing strategy
Quote from: Terry37 on 02 May 2019, 03:24:19 AM
All I can say is that Leon and company have only been super fair to me, so I am happy to pay what they need to stay in business.
Terry
I agree Terry. When I have put in a non standard order , I just pay what Leon tells me , although I sometimes wonder if he has diddled himself.
Quote from: Sunray on 02 May 2019, 07:57:52 AM
Well said Norm. Ian Kay is one of the originals - a one man band who must deserve a place in the history of war game figure manufacture with the diversity of ranges from 2mm to 75mm ! Yes, there is variable quality control - but if you are not happy - Ian will ALWAYS refund .
In most of my armies there is at least one key piece of kit or figures that.....only IM supplies.
Yes while a few of the figures I have bought over the years have had a bit more flash than some manufacturers, I have only had to ask for a replacement on two occasions, both times he was happy to oblige and I collected them at the next show we were both at.
Nobby's needle has got stuck on his irrational fear of 15mm again. Someone give him a nudge. Just to annoy:
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58708005_133757961116806_4565483740964323328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=5969e81db75d890cd336e740c76dc939&oe=5D36D2F8)
The guys at Pendraken have very kindly allowed us to (attempt to) clear up how our postage works so I thought I'd come on and have a go/spoil the fun.
In the past our postage was worked out as: UK +10% with a minimum of £2, Europe +20% with a minimum of £4, Rest of World +30% with a minimum of £5.
However, as a result of adding a shopping cart function to the website through PayPal buttons we can no longer use this method, as there is no % based postage option, nor is it possible to have different minimum postage amounts to different regions.
As a result we had to add the 10% UK Postage onto the price of the figures (no clever marketing scheme involved sadly). If anyone can think of a better, less confusing, way to word the note please let us know.
Eventually it is our aim to rebuild the site from scratch using a proper shopping cart platform but at the moment the thought of starting this monumental task (we have over 11,000 different figures!) makes me feel physically ill.
As people have mentioned already if there is ever an issue with any figure you receive from us or a missing piece (we are still human after all. For now...) let us know and we will be more than happy to send on what you need.
Hope I have managed to clear things up a bit,
Lawrence
Hi Lawrence,
Welcome to the Forum, thanks for clearing that up, I was very intrigued. I hope the addition of the shopping cart significantly increases your sales, as you are one of "Old Stalwarts" that I have used for more years than I care to remember.
I think the first show I saw you at was when you ventured down to Southend on Sea.
Welcome to the forum Lawrence :-h
Thanks for clearing that up
Quote from: Orcs on 03 May 2019, 05:44:05 PM
Hi Lawrence,
Welcome to the Forum, thanks for clearing that up, I was very intrigued. I hope the addition of the shopping cart significantly increases your sales, as you are one of "Old Stalwarts" that I have used for more years than I care to remember.
+ 1 to that ! :)
And thanks to Leon for allowing "another old firm" to post. Most "irregular" in the modern business world. But then wargameing is more of a fraternity than a business.
Best wishes
James
FSN, 15 MM is not dead for me, nor is it locally. But I've heard that said before....but just keep getting what I need, so who knows???
Terry
I know. It's early days.
I was quite a big 15mm advocate until I discovered the One True Scale. 6mm is too small for my old eyes, and 20mm and larger just doesn't look right when you want to put a Panther on the table. As technology advances, 10mm figures just keep getting better (check out the Korean War range) and quality, price and aesthetic give 10mm an edge over 15mm.
I started my "15mm is dead, it just doesn't know it" campaign a while ago, on the basis that if you say something often enough it becomes true.
If you've heard it elsewhere, then maybe the word is getting around. :D
I would definitely agree that wargaming is more like a fraternity than a business, a very friendly community, and thank you for being so welcoming to the forum. Makes me want to stop being so lazy and get back on the Wargames show cycle!
With regards to 15mm it is far from our most popular scale but it does plod along fairly nicely.
Welcome !
Just to say. in all my past mail order dealings with Ian Kay have been excellent (admittedly pre-dating the new paypal mail order site). He is very helpful, good at responding to emails and super-quick to resolve any problems with an order. A bit like Leon, really (but older). :D
Quote from: fsn on 04 May 2019, 06:20:23 AM
I know. It's early days.
I was quite a big 15mm advocate until I discovered the One True Scale. 6mm is too small for my old eyes, and 20mm and larger just doesn't look right when you want to put a Panther on the table. As technology advances, 10mm figures just keep getting better (check out the Korean War range) and quality, price and aesthetic give 10mm an edge over 15mm.
I started my "15mm is dead, it just doesn't know it" campaign a while ago, on the basis that if you say something often enough it becomes true.
If you've heard it elsewhere, then maybe the word is getting around. :D
Complete failure Nobby! In the last 12 months I have bought nothing but/painted nothing but 15mm. (apart from a lot of 2mm scenic material from Irregular and Brigade Miniatures). Be careful that the constant repetition has the opposite to your desired affect.
"Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish." - John Quincy Adams
I lead by example.
Well most of the time I ignore you mate.
Imagine how heartbroken I am.
Is this forum turning into TMP? (smile)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 05 May 2019, 01:40:02 PM
Is this forum turning into TMP? (smile)
No we only really do gentle leg pulling.
(especially if its Techno on the receiving end) :)