* opponents who won't read the rules, and then get the sulks when they lose
* waiting for a parcel of shinies to cover intercontinental distances
* sleepless nights while a project is on the workbench and I'm too tired to paint any more
* dice with a three in four probability of rolling a 1 in a crisis
* trying to understand what my brother-gamers are trying to say in their posts
* Sengoku games with four samurai, one ashigaru, a geisha, and a cherry tree pretending to be a military force
BUT I'm sure others have their own lists.
- Painting horses, especially their tack.
- Those die rolls that at critical times in the game when you are in a position to cause pain and misery to your opponents troops, always come up ones.
- Too competitive players that spoil a game.
- Badly written or thought out rulesets that promised oh so much.
- Packing away after a game.
Drat, I forgot packing away.
- Painting horses
- Packing away after a game
- Painting un-uniformed troops. Though to be fair, I've got a bit of a system now
- "Oh you've got Sherman III's/Stovepipe shakos/lorica segmentata but obviously on that Tuesday afternoon it was Sherman V's/Belgic Shakos/lorica hamata"
- Figure ranges that have almost everything you neeeeed. Speaking of which, any chance of a SMG for the Korean British, Leon?
- Stuff on that table that shouldn't be - rule sets, tape measures, coffee cups, that King Tiger. Table tidiness, please.
- Articles in hobby mags that only give "game stats" for particular rule sets.
- Endless hand wringing about base sizes
- *Hobby Horse* Bases with normally unmoving items attached - trees, walls, fences, A9 tanks
- *Hobby Horse* Kneeling and prone figures anytime, but especially pre 1900.
- *Hobby Horse* Light infantry pre 1900 being only available in firing positions
Tbh there's only one 'thing' that ruins the hobby - overly competitive players who seem to imagine that there its an Olympic medal beckoning if they can mangle the rules to their advantage.
Playing with d***heads.
Having to paint my toys before i can play with them.
To be fair I have an answer to the first one, I don't play those people ever again!
None really, I like it all. I'm not keen on painting kneeling troops ... is that enough to that count? ... Oh and gamey play.
Answering endless polls on what you like and dislike! ;) ;D ;D
Quote from: mollinary on 19 February 2019, 10:15:21 AM
Answering endless polls on what you like and dislike! ;) ;D ;D
Good point. What dweeble-brained wally started this one?
Other people...
Despite owning mountains of models, hours (days, months, years!) of painting, numerous rulesets purchased and read, I have never, ever played an historical wargame...
(makes me a bit sad really :()
Quote from: Matt J on 19 February 2019, 11:07:30 AM
Despite owning mountains of models, hours (days, months, years!) of painting, numerous rulesets purchased and read, I have never, ever played an historical wargame...
(makes me a bit sad really :()
How come?
Quote from: Leman on 19 February 2019, 08:33:11 AM
Tbh there's only one 'thing' that ruins the hobby - overly competitive players who seem to imagine that there its an Olympic medal beckoning if they can mangle the rules to their advantage.
I wouldn't say it's the only thing, but it is probably the worst thing.
I'd also add the preponderance of 28mm figures, and the emphasis on skirmish games (because everything is expected to be 28mm).
[quoteQuote from: Matt J on Today at 11:07:30 AM
Despite owning mountains of models, hours (days, months, years!) of painting, numerous rulesets purchased and read, I have never, ever played an historical wargame...
(makes me a bit sad really Sad)
How come?][/quote]
Don't know really, it just has never happened, geography doesn't help - living in rural Shropshire, don't think there are any clubs anywhere near, and haven't got it in me to go solo.
Play GW board games with my brother now and again but that about it.
Got boxes of lovely painted stuff that once finished are packed away and have never seen the light of day again.
Rules that are advertised as covering a period that I am interested in that are nothing of the sort and whose designer notes show that they have done insufficient research. 😫😠😡
Rant over. Anyone interested in a set of Field of Glory v2? Never used and never will be
Quote from: Matt J on 19 February 2019, 12:21:47 PM
[quoteQuote from: Matt J on Today at 11:07:30 AM
Despite owning mountains of models, hours (days, months, years!) of painting, numerous rulesets purchased and read, I have never, ever played an historical wargame...
(makes me a bit sad really Sad)
How come?]
Don't know really, it just has never happened, geography doesn't help - living in rural Shropshire, don't think there are any clubs anywhere near, and haven't got it in me to go solo.
Play GW board games with my brother now and again but that about it.
Got boxes of lovely painted stuff that once finished are packed away and have never seen the light of day again.
That's a shame. I've not had the time or opportunity to check out any local clubs yet, and haven't yet got any friends hooked on it so most of my games are solo. To be honest, it can still be quite fun and based on some of the comments here means you don't have to deal with any unsavoury other players. Unless you're an unsavoury player yourself of course...
But can see how it wouldn't be for everyone. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed playing. I always thought I'd just be interested in painting but have been enjoying the games too and inspires the painting projects to get new units out together to suit the games.
Making archers. ;)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Matt J on 19 February 2019, 11:07:30 AM
Despite owning mountains of models, hours (days, months, years!) of painting, numerous rulesets purchased and read, I have never, ever played an historical wargame...
(makes me a bit sad really :()
So actually you've never played a wargame. Presumably you are a fantasy gamer who has arrived on the wrong site. I suppose I should have added that to my very short list. People who refer to fantasy gaming and board games as wargames. When I started wargaming the only people who played with faeries were girls. I shall now return this can of worms to FK.
Quote from: Matt J on 19 February 2019, 11:07:30 AM
Despite owning mountains of models, hours (days, months, years!) of painting, numerous rulesets purchased and read, I have never, ever played an historical wargame...
(makes me a bit sad really :()
Matt, That is a great shame, since you have invested in time and painting and actually have stuff to use, I wonder whether it is worth you picking up a copy of Neil Thomas' One Hour Wargames rules. In terms of rules, they are a mixed blessing, but they are short, there are 30 situations (scenarios) described in the book, which are interesting to play, you only need 4 - 6 units per side and you can play in less than a 3' x 3' space with a big stuff and a smaller space with the smaller scales.
I only mention these because they are so easy to get up on the table, play in less that the 'advertised' hour and putting away is quick and easy. It would get you into gear for throwing dice and moving things in a solo game. The rules are so easy you cannot put a foot wrong, but it may be just the thing to kick start some gaming. Solo gaming is probably much more common than forums / magazines etc might suggest, just play both sides well, the dice will provide the variables. I hope you have a go.
Here is a link to a post I blogged about the rules and an AAR to a game that I played solo, hope it helps. cheers Norm.
LINK
http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2015/04/1-hour-wargames-initial-look.html
Definitely, over-competitive players and untidy tables (years of
effort to create a miniature masterpiece and then cover it in
coke cans !!) I'm sure there's an explanation... :-
Phil
Matt,
What a nightmare, particularly when we all know how much time
it takes to paint the little blighters up.
I think I am really lucky - we have a small gaming group of four
who get together every Friday night and are not too far from you
(Wolverhampton). You are very welcome to get in touch if you
want to explore the possibility of a game.
Cheers,
Phil
I only play solo... but that's my choice...
I despise Cheaters. >:(
I know a chap (who's now stopped coming to our club) who'd measured various parts of his arms and fingers to help him "estimate" ranges during games where actual measuring was not permitted. He'd lean over the table and ponder if he was in charge range etc... placing his arm next to the units in question.
On a personal note, he was an utter knob as well.
Unfortunately they do exist, and seldom have much of a grasp of military history. Quite happy to have an army almost entirely of Roman Praetorians and cataphracts to go up against Sumerians or Medieval Welsh.
Quote from: Dr Dave on 19 February 2019, 06:29:47 PM
I despise Cheaters. >:(
I know a chap (who's now stopped coming to our club) who'd measured various parts of his arms and fingers to help him "estimate" ranges during games where actual measuring was not permitted. He'd lean over the table and ponder if he was in charge range etc... placing his arm next to the units in question.
On a personal note, he was an utter knob as well.
Tell me about it. I had the unfortunate experience of such a character destroying the last club I belonged to, along with " forgetting " to return models and scenery to people he had borrowed them from...
To the Strongest is a set of rules which minimises the situations in which this sort of player can flourish by removing measuring and angles and such by inserting a grid. But do not underestimate the power of human ingenuity! While still a novice at the system I was faced with an opponent who, regardless of how many times he was asked, would never announce what he intended to do before he drew his activation card. This allowed him to adjust his aspirations downwards if faced with a particularly low draw. A minor advantage, but hugely IRRITATING!
Quote from: mollinary on 19 February 2019, 08:04:42 PM
To the Strongest is a set of rules which minimises the situations in which this sort of player can flourish by removing measuring and angles and such by inserting a grid. But do not underestimate the power of human ingenuity! While still a novice at the system I was faced with an opponent who, regardless of how many times he was asked, would never announce what he intended to do before he drew his activation card. This allowed him to adjust his aspirations downwards if faced with a particularly low draw. A minor advantage, but hugely IRRITATING!
I think you are being generous calling it a "minor advantage" :)
If it were FK&P it would be a major advantage.
The temptation to cheat in solo play is great. I have had to resort to "stoppage of gin" to quell it.
Quote from: d_Guy on 19 February 2019, 08:21:25 PM
I think you are being generous calling it a "minor advantage" :)
If it were FK&P it would be a major advantage.
The temptation to cheat in solo play is great. I have had to resort to "stoppage of gin" to quell it.
If only 'stoppage of gin' could be imposed on an opponent! I fear he may appear at the 'To the Strongest' World Championships this weekend. - I trust he has mended his ways!
In order of hateness:
Rebasing anything.
Painting horses.
Scale creep.
Rebasing anything.
People who decry smaller scales as not proper figures.
Players who cheat.
Painting horses.
Rivet counters
People with huge backpacks, BO or both at shows
Rebasing anything.
Quote from: Subedai on 19 February 2019, 09:15:53 PM
Painting horses
Is that because of or in spite of your love of Mongols, Subedai?
A lot of people seem to have issues with painting horses, is it just the horses themselves and all their leathery strappy bits, or cavalry in general?
The bit that annoys me about cavalry is the numerous awkward angles and deep crevices between horse and man that can be a pain to paint without blobbing a bit. The tack, while tedious, isn't quite so annoying if done in small doses.
- shows that seem to cater exclusively to 28mm, fantasy or WWII, or even worse: combinations of the three...
- removing flash
- too few clubs focussed solely on historical wargaming (I've had to compromise meanwhile, buying a fantasy army that could also serve historical purposes minus the flying carpets, wizards and djinns)
But worst of all:
- the time it takes for my orders from the UK to arrive here in Belgium, if at all.
I don't like painting horse (although my one attempt at a chariot was worse - in fact any thing with wheels pulled by creatures of any sort), elephants would be right out.
Contrary to the know universe, one of my favorite things is (apparently) rebasing.
Although nobody asked - my most favorite thing is doing the base edges (with a black or brown marker) - means I'm done (maybe)!
The think I dislike the most is, while doing the edging (as above), discovering a figure that has some feature NOT Painted!
You're lucky you've only had to paint that one horse Bill :d. Seriously though, I have found a way of producing nice looking horses by using a darker base coat and highlighting the raised musculature, eg. I do a lot of brown horses using a chestnut base, highlighting with light brown. The biggest pain for me is then having to add the tack with my big, clumpy hands.
I discovered by horsy technique by accident:
Prime them with a white spray can, use a darkish chestnut brown that has been thinned out slightly too much. Makes for wonderful 'highlights' and is fast as hell to paint....
:P
Might try that. :)
However, still got the tack, horse blanket, nose, blaze, maine, tail, fetlocks, hooves .... wah! ~X(
It's amazing how much static grass/flock can hide hooves.
The basis of my horse technique - not great, but quick and little fuss.
Looks fine for massed cavalry where a sharp-dressed man on the saddle distracts from a host of errors lower down.
1. Colour distribution - take 2 or 3 hours to read this series of artickes on hose coats and genetics: http://troubleatthemill.blogspot.com/2011/04/horse-of-different-colour.html (http://troubleatthemill.blogspot.com/2011/04/horse-of-different-colour.html)
Summary:
About 75% brown coloured, of which 75% are "bays" black manes, tails and darker ankles. The remainder of the browns are chestnuts (without the black markings).
The remaining 25% are mostly black with the odd white, grey or more exotic colouration.
I sort my horses into groups of 16, then paint a quarter each light brown, mid brown, dark brown, then do the fancy colours (mostly black) on the last quarter.
I then pick out the 25% chestnuts from the browns (taking a higher proportion of the light browns because I prefer it that way) and paint black on the manes, tails and ankles of the rest.
Next a bit of white on some lower legs and almost all faces.
Room for a bit of artistic license here.
My secret for tack is doing the absolute minimum (This is the worst bit).
Brown horses with brown tack require little extra if you manage a satin finish - light will catch the mounded straps and hint that something's there.
For the black and light exotics, I try to keep things minimal as well.
I've no idea why all those bits are there, but I do know that most belts and the like a massively overscale on models.
Imagine reins that are an inch across, how broad would they be if scaled to 15mm - far too fine to sculpt I'd guess.
I therefore apply a very fine touch to the reins and (the straps that lead form the mouth up round the nose, and also back toward the ears.
Saddle blankets and saddles follow the normal uniform guides.
I find a coloured stripe along the bottom or round the edge looks good for irregular horsemen
Then sort them into (usually mixed) groups and base them.
If they're close order charging types, most of the horrid detail will go unnoticed, people will see the head, neck, rider (and tail if looking from behind).
Now to answer the "Least liked" question.
1. Rules that promise much, but turn out to be reheated old-skool, or worse - utterly unintelligible.
I now wait for reviews as opposed to rushing to be the early adopter.
2. Rebasing - I'm tending toward games that rely less on specific basing requirements, or ones that use a popular standard.
3. Joining in "that" participation game at a show, and realising that you've signed up for 2 hours of purgatory - Thankfully rare.
4. My Monthly trip to see whether TMP has got any better - I'm thinking of reducing it to a bi-monthly event - or opting out completely during the 18 months American presidential elections.
5. My house has insufficient storage for all the new stuff I'd like to do.
Quote from: Leman on 20 February 2019, 08:06:40 AM
You're lucky you've only had to paint that one horse Bill :d. Seriously though, I have found a way of producing nice looking horses by using a darker base coat and highlighting the raised musculature, eg. I do a lot of brown horses using a chestnut base, highlighting with light brown. The biggest pain for me is then having to add the tack with my big, clumpy hands.
Andy, it only took one horse to arrive at my opinion. ;)
Quote from: Leman on 20 February 2019, 08:06:40 AM
You're lucky you've only had to paint that one horse Bill :d. Seriously though, I have found a way of producing nice looking horses by using a darker base coat and highlighting the raised musculature, eg. I do a lot of brown horses using a chestnut base, highlighting with light brown. The biggest pain for me is then having to add the tack with my big, clumpy hands.
It's damn fiddly putting the tack on the gee gees with green stuff as well.....
Especially the reins....So if I have to suffer... :P ;)
Cheers - Phil
Tell me about it! Tried turning a regular C15th knight into an early C16th gendarmes the other day. Adding a skirt with green stuff was not too bad, but trying to create a massive plume falling in three separate strands defeated me. Our gallant gendarme has decided not to risk his precious ostrich feathers in real combat.......and that was in 15mm!!!
Another horribly fiddly thing, is trying to make 'pole-arm/halberd/whatever' type weapons at this scale.
I've just invented a new way of doing this.....It was causing a lot of swearing to start with.
But I got there in the end. :)
Cheers - Phil
New enjoy least... Working from home trying to focus on work when surrounded by all the figures crying out to be painted and based... :'(
Normally work in the kitchen to avoid this if working from home but as the kitchen is currently an empty shell that's not on the cards.
Things I dislike about the hobby...
1: Painting
2: Opponents who do no historical research and produce ridiculous "list" based armies, then protest "the lists say I can"
3: Unpainted figures in a game
4: Painting
5: The unwashed at shows such as Salute, especially if the have huge backpacks and no spatial awareness
6: Painting
7: Those that whilst not cheating, stretch the rules to ludicrous lengths never imagined by the authors
8: Painting
9: Being called a grumpy old man ;)
10: Painting
Cheers
Ian
A man who hates painting who also hates unpainted figures in a game - that way masochism lies. So glad I enjoy the modelling and painting aspects of the hobby, sometimes more than an actual game. The bit I really dislike that doesn't involve other people is taking down and packing away. Sometimes I will fight a battle two or three times rather than go through the hassle of packing away.
I think that's rather a good idea, Andy. :)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Leman on 23 February 2019, 08:51:49 AM
A man who hates painting who also hates unpainted figures in a game - that way masochism lies. So glad I enjoy the modelling and painting aspects of the hobby, sometimes more than an actual game. The bit I really dislike that doesn't involve other people is taking down and packing away. Sometimes I will fight a battle two or three times rather than go through the hassle of packing away.
Packing away is a recurring complaint and how true it is(!) - sometimes I find the setting up, if it's a historical re-fight, a real pain also - seems to take ages getting everything into the 'correct' position.
p.s. I'm already on record as disliking the painting side - I usually like it at first but soon the enthusiasm wanes as my impatience to get units on the table grows or I encounter features or equipment on the sculpt that I've no idea what I'm supposed to be painting - but, I too, dislike unpainted figures on the table (at least take a leaf out of Jim's book - see 'Encourage Les Autres' post).
signed - Mr Whiplash. :-[
QuoteThe unwashed at shows such as Salute, especially if the have huge backpacks and no spatial awareness
Oh so true! One year at Colours it poured down with rain just before the doors opened. It then warmed up quite considerably on the top floor and the smell was something I'd rather not experience again :-&.
I've found the human body odour problems have decreased remarkably over the last 10 years.
* Maybe all those Lynx adverts have reached the Warhammer generation.
* Maybe we've all upped our game when it comes to hygiene.
* Or perhaps my own sense of smell is fading with age.
You know what they say:
If you've never come across that guy - then you're probably that guy.
Or
He who smelt it dealt it.
What parts of the hobby do I enjoy least?
People who play the letter of the rules rather than the spirit of them, for a start, but what I really dread the most is thinking about how much money I spend on playing toy soldiers.
It's relatively cheap compared to a lot of hobbies :-\
Keeps us off the streets, mostly ;)
And once purchased they can be used again and again, I'm still using figures I bought in the 70s :)
I also still use some of the Minifigs 15mm WOR and Renaissance figures I bought in the 70s and the bulk of my ACW collection is 15mm Old Glory from the 80s.
Quote from: paulr on 28 February 2019, 07:01:55 AM
It's relatively cheap compared to a lot of hobbies :-
Welll ... it can be.
Quote from: paulr on 28 February 2019, 07:01:55 AM
And once purchased they can be used again and again, I'm still using figures I bought in the 70s :)
I have an Airfix Churchill tank from the late 60s or early 70s. The gun now has a dogleg, at some point I thought flocking it would be a good idea and at least one roadwheel has gone ... but I can't bear to get rid of it.
Sad thing is, Airfix Churchills I put together some 20 years later aren't modelled with any greater skill.
Quote from: fsn on 28 February 2019, 07:39:54 AM
Welll ... it can be.
I have an Airfix Churchill tank from the late 60s or early 70s. The gun now has a dogleg, at some point I thought flocking it would be a good idea and at least one roadwheel has gone ... but I can't bear to get rid of it.
Sad thing is, Airfix Churchills I put together some 20 years later aren't modelled with any greater skill.
One of the great things about Churchills was that they could lose a couple of wheels and keep on trundling.
True, the hobby can be cheap or expensive, depending on taste. Paper soldiers with free rules on a kitchen table with books as hills if you wish. In a Warning Order magazine I recently read a comment about people in the past regularly "dropping" 100 dollars a time on their weekly visit to their local wargame shop. For me that is other extreme . This however is a digression, Since people are commenting on figures 50 years old or more, I thought I might mention my Minifig 15mm French Cuirassiers - the old strip ones. For some reason they were smaller than the rest of the range. Small men on small horses, and did not quite cut the dash expected of the terrors of European battlefields. I have however discovered that they just about (admittedly only just about) mix happily with my Pendraken 10mm Naps. Suddenly we have big men and big horses as it should be. Thus it is that my 2 year old 10mm Napoleonic collection contains some 40 year old figures. (They are better painted too - I had younger eyes and a steadier hand then)
Quote from: grahambeyrout on 28 February 2019, 01:02:08 PM
- I had younger eyes and a steadier hand then)
Didn't we all. :'(
Cheers - Phil ;)
Unfortunately I have always had shaky hands and have worn glasses since I was 10, so my painting has actually improved, but I still can't paint a straight line. Parti-coloured clothing is an absolute nightmare, but I still give it a go.
The only way I can keep my hands properly steady is by resting them on the desk.....I presume every one does that anyway !
You should see the way they wobble when I'm trying to solder tiny bits of metal together, when I can't find a way of even resting my elbows on the work top in the pole barn's 'workshop'.
(I'm not allowed to solder indoors since an 'incident' with a gas soldering iron. :-[)
Cheers - Phil :D
X_X
Quote from: Techno on 28 February 2019, 09:22:59 PM
The only way I can keep my hands properly steady is by resting them on the desk.....I presume every one does that anyway !
You should see the way they wobble when I'm trying to solder tiny bits of metal together, when I can't find a way of even resting my elbows on the work top in the pole barn's 'workshop'.
(I'm not allowed to solder indoors since an 'incident' with a gas soldering iron. :-[)
Cheers - Phil :D
I've seen a few recommendations for close work hand technique.
They usually involve grounding the heel or back of hands on the worktop, or something stable and suitable elevated.
There one hand is holding the subject, both hands are placed firmly together to eliminate relative wobble.
Steve
I found that works as 'tempus fugit'. Also find as I get older and occasionally have a bad night's sleep there are days when I probably couldn't
Emulsion a wall never mind figures! 😩
Quote from: Chad on 01 March 2019, 12:30:31 PM
Steve
I found that works as 'tempus fugit'. Also find as I get older and occasionally have a bad night's sleep there are days when I probably couldn't
Emulsion a wall never mind figures! 😩
I'm not
allowed to emulsion walls. I try and do it too fast, and usually miss lots of bits. :D
Cheers - Phil
Could this digression be kept shorter if Phil just listed the things he is allowed to do?
It would be a pretty short list. ;)
Cheers - Phil