Here's one for Pendraken market research -
What period would you invest in, if 10 mm figures, - not currently available - were to be produced ? :o
Biblical
Chinese ancients. Warring states would be great. Han or Song could be fun to pit against steppe nomads (Xiongnu and Mongols). Ming would be a nice counter to the Samurai. Lots of civil war and rebellion opportunities too.
Mexican Revolution and the French in Algeria 1830-40
Revolutionary French wars; Europe and Egypt
Quote from: mad lemmey on 13 January 2019, 02:46:35 PM
Biblical
Not sure of the exact wargaming period naming conventions, but I suspect that this is the one I want. Looking at my copy of Warmaster Ancients, the period that includes Egyptian, Hittite, Assyrian and Homeric Greek/Trojan armies.
Ooooh! Good one! Some of my wants are on the Pendraken "to do" list, and some would be more additional lines to existing ranges but ...
- Chariots - Assyrians, Egyptians, Hittites /Trojans, Minoans
- Byzantines
- Dark Age ships
- Revamp of the medieval for the 100 Year War
- Napoleonic Royal Marines and Sailors (including a sloop or brig hull)
- Old West
- Mexican Revolution 1910
- Arab-Israeli 1967 or 1973
- 1946
- 1984
- Superheroes
- ... and the Anglo-Zanzibar War (of course)
A complete French Revolutionary Wars range.
..and the Carlist Wars
Spanish American War 1898.
There are several things I would like to do, and some things I would seriously consider if Pendraken produced an opponent.
Things I would really Like
WW2 Polish (or generic) Armoured Train - Sorry getting a bit like FK and the Aztecs before they were released
Biblicals:- Assyrian, Babylonian, Egyptions, Phillistines, Hebrews
Crusade Period Arabs - current ancient Arab range does not fit this
Ranges that I feel are needed
Chinese to fight Mongols
Touregs to fight French Foreign Legion
Oriental Napoleonics - Indian sub-continent, Persia & Caucasus, Ottoman Turks, middle east, sub-Saharan states (Sokoto Caliphate, Bornu-Kanem, Kordufan, Funj Sultanate, Abyssinian states, Tueregs).
War of 1812
Revolutionary Wars 1790-1802 including Haiti, Puerto Rico, Egypt (ties in with Oriental napoleonics), Italian states such as Venetia, Papacy, Piedmont-Savoy-Sardinia, Switzerland, Genoa etc (a lot of these you can do generic figures for, just different hats, cuirassiers in bicornes, etc)
1956 Cold war (allows you to mix current WW2 kit with early moderns kit)
Mark
If you are going to 1802 why exclude the Russians and Polish Legions?
Quote from: Steve J on 13 January 2019, 03:50:15 PM
A complete French Revolutionary Wars range.
And this would include?
War of 1812.
Quote from: Chad on 13 January 2019, 09:49:11 PM
If you are going to 1802 why exclude the Russians and Polish Legions?
Russians would be in the Oriental Napoleonics range fighting Chechens, Persians, Lesgis, Alans, Azerbaijanis, Cossacks, Ottoman Turks and such like, alongside allied Circassians, Georgians, and Serbs and so on.
Polish Legions would be in the Italian states.
But yes, a comprehensive Revolutionary Wars range seems to be getting a calling!
Quote from: Orcs on 13 January 2019, 08:21:50 PM
Crusade Period Arabs - current ancient Arab range does not fit this
The Arabs really had little to do with the Crusades as a whole; after the Fatimids they were little but auxiliaries and mercenaries.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 13 January 2019, 10:57:31 PM
The Arabs really had little to do with the Crusades as a whole; after the Fatimids they were little but auxiliaries and mercenaries.
A few of the Arab figures can be shoehorned in as general middle eastern troops for the period without too much issue, but certainly expanding the medieval range for the Ayyubids, Syrians, Turks, etc would be great. Currently have to source most of these elsewhere. :(
I've got most of what I want, but do note the continuing absence of T'ang (sympathetically aware the sources are less helpful than we'd like) and the way Ming have to be improvised and outsourced (most of mine are Irregular Miniatures and Kallistra, and there are some that I haven't managed to convert).
A convincing Fuzzy-Wuzzy with a rifle would fill a great big gap in a popular range.
More position variants for Cuachicqueh, Otolohmeh, and troops in Huaxtec suits would be welcome, but mustn't be greedy.
17th century civvie in the stocks. Roaring boy at tavern with bottle in hand and topless wench on knee. ECW/30YW regiment kneeling at prayer.
Thureophoros (oval shield Hellenistic peltast) and decent Thracians would be valuable Hellenistic additions.
SYW string quartet.
Too late for biblicals for me now, having committed to 6mm.
It's more add-ons for existing stuff that interests me than new ranges.
Russian Partisans, German Volksturm and the Russian B-4 203mm tracked howitzer, for example. I realise demand may be low for some or all of those.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/de4efb8cdf7102d50d07233bca7b2b56/tumblr_p4gcipIRBu1r94kvzo1_400.gif)
WW1/WW2 Weird Wars, and expanded Medieval line.
Quote from: sultanbev on 13 January 2019, 10:51:12 PM
Russians would be in the Oriental Napoleonics range fighting Chechens, Persians, Lesgis, Alans, Azerbaijanis, Cossacks, Ottoman Turks and such like, alongside allied Circassians, Georgians, and Serbs and so on.
Polish Legions would be in the Italian states.
But yes, a comprehensive Revolutionary Wars range seems to be getting a calling!
Not sure I understand that as it appears to ignore Suvorov's 1799 campaign in Italy.
Thanks men. Do keep them coming.
What is noticeable are the "dogs that aren't barking" . The period/ranges that Leon and I have "chatted" about as potentials.
The Korean experiment was/is a major gamble in creating a new figure range. It only works because WW2 vehicles are already "on the shelf". There are a few WW2 figures such as the US Marines that will compliment. For me the soft field caps and berets lend themselves very well to a 10mm 1960s/70s Bush war game.
However, Pendraken can't do a "Korean" too often. Hence the relevance of creating figures for which there is a demand.
QuoteThe Korean experiment was/is a major gamble in creating a new figure range. It only works because WW2 vehicles are already "on the shelf"
Also makes it hard to judge how successful as well. For my own Korean 'adventure' I've probably spent 4x as much on WW2 codes than on Korean codes (I like armour :D)
Something nice and easy to sculpt. :P
Cheers - Phil ;)
Balkan Wars, using Konstantinos's new scenario book!
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,18160.msg271073.html#new
Chris
Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/
I'm something of a rules-driven chap, so would like to see ranges that match rules of interest.
I've half an eye on Osprey's Men of Bronze due out midyear.
It might be worth getting some advanced recon on unit/figure types, and see whether any work is required to build out your existing classical / successor ranges.
You might also consider presenting "Men of Bronze" starter packs.
The author, Eric Farrington is quite active on-line.
The other itch I've yet to scratch for lack of time / obvious complete figure ranges is Irregular Wars.
This represents a much bigger effort, including Elizabethan wars in Ireland (I think you have this covered).
Portuguese and Spanish discovery voyages and subsequent settlement.
Later waves of Hollander, English and French fighting to displace the original colonists and expand into indigenous people's territory.
There are also Eastern European lists covering Ottomans and Muscovite expansion across Siberia.
A massive ask to cover the lot, and unlikely to yield sales in proportion to the effort expended.
Let me have a day to think, and I'll try to come up with something specific and deliverable.
Look out for another posting.
Quote from: Techno on 14 January 2019, 10:20:06 AM
Something nice and easy to sculpt. :P
Cheers - Phil ;)
That's Ottoman Turk Napoleonics off the menu then :'(
Mark
Quote from: Techno on 14 January 2019, 10:20:06 AM
Something nice and easy to sculpt. :P
A range of 19th Century infantry in greatcoats without backpacks but with loads of different headgear - bicornes, shakos (all flavours), forage caps, kepis etc plus bareheaded and bandaged
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 14 January 2019, 11:15:11 AM
I'm something of a rules-driven chap, so would like to see ranges that match rules of interest.
Following that logic, may I suggest some Gladiators and armed Roman civillians?
We've got the Lions. :D
Quote from: sultanbev on 14 January 2019, 11:26:25 AM
That's Ottoman Turk Napoleonics off the menu then :'(
Mark
I'll leave those to Tony, Mark ;) ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 14 January 2019, 11:15:11 AM
The other itch I've yet to scratch for lack of time / obvious complete figure ranges is Irregular Wars.
This represents a much bigger effort, including Elizabethan wars in Ireland (I think you have this covered).
Portuguese and Spanish discovery voyages and subsequent settlement.
Later waves of Hollander, English and French fighting to displace the original colonists and expand into indigenous people's territory.
There are also Eastern European lists covering Ottomans and Muscovite expansion across Siberia.
A massive ask to cover the lot, and unlikely to yield sales in proportion to the effort expended.
The above appeals to me a lot. There are bits and pieces available around the edges of current ranges, but some dedicated figures would be very nice. It may be a project that can start quite quickly from initial figures and build from there.
Quote from: Matt J on 14 January 2019, 10:09:50 AM
Also makes it hard to judge how successful as well. For my own Korean 'adventure' I've probably spent 4x as much on WW2 codes than on Korean codes (I like armour :D)
Good point Matt. However the figure sculpt was extensive to cover (a) nations and (b) seasonal change in uniforms. The WW2 sales in armour will help recoup the speculative investment in Korean figures. In that sense it was a lower risk than say ultra modern.
One could (tongue in cheek) argue that the existence of 1980s Brits and NATO (sorry- Argentine), would lower the risk on 1980s Soviet/WP. But so far that dog has not barked. Rumour Control hints we will have them in 12 months time.....
Cold war gone hot seems to be very popular at the mo, I would certainly ride that pony.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 14 January 2019, 11:15:11 AM
I'm something of a rules-driven chap, so would like to see ranges that match rules of interest.
...
The other itch I've yet to scratch for lack of time / obvious complete figure ranges is Irregular Wars.
...
A massive ask to cover the lot, and unlikely to yield sales in proportion to the effort expended.
Let me have a day to think, and I'll try to come up with something specific and deliverable.
Look out for another posting.
Rather quicker than the "day to think".
With some imagination, the European explorers / colonists can be rustled up using existing ranges.
Late mediaval / Elizabethan / English Civil / French and Indian wars.
Most European lists comprise regulars, militia and native allies/mercenaries.
The regulars resemble a typical pike and shot force, bit with sword and buckler / half pike / polearms replacing some or all of the pike.
Militia/volunteers/sailors would be similar, thought mixing close fighters and shot on their elements.
Some crossbows and ships guns are available, but few or no mounted.
Selecting figures with floppy hats allows an easily interchangable European force.
I'd personally have a few elements with morion hats for my Iberian regulars.
Ships guns would be 2 wheeled carriages for the Iberians, perhaps 4 wheel naval carriages for the johnny come lately more northern colonists.
So - where are the gaps?
Mostly Native types, either whole lists, or specific weapons.
Some of those gaps can be closed from existing ranges with a bit of imagination.
Let's start with the Americas:
North of the Aztecs there's a need for archers - both close fighter and scouts, spearmen and close fighters.
The woodland Indian shot can be taken form the FIW range, but require scouts and close fighters.
South of the Aztecs there are Incas (Quite a complicated range).
Simpler ranges are Amazon natives with big bows and bad hair, or Pampas dwellers with spears, bows and close fighters.
Boucaniers and Cimarrons also feature in several lists as scouts.
I'd be happy with a packs of archers, spears and close fighters to bulk out any of these forces and act as auxiliaries for the Europeans.
Outside the Americas there's:
West and Central Africa: Tribes and kingdoms with warriors, scouts, a scattering of shot and elite warriors, also shamans.
East Africa is more varied with the possibility to use colonial Somalis for many of the warriors.
Arabs: Can probably cobble something together form existing ranges.
India: Mughals, Rajputs and Vijayanagara - A big undertaking - through with quite interchangeable cores of levy foot and elephants.
Indonesia / East Indies: Warriors - rather different looking to the Indians, elephants, light cavalry and blowpipe or headhunter scouts. Also pirate variants.
China: Ming army - sadly declining from its heyday, with mercenaries, levies and a frew regulars.
Japan - Coneverd by existing range
Korea - Similar configuration to China with different headgear.
Congratulations for reading this far - have a cigar.
I'd suggest addressing one area of interest, building on existing ranges: You have a good start in several areas.
* Spanish Conquistodors in the Americas.
* French / English / Dutch colonists on the Eastern Seaboard.
* Portuguese in East Africa.
Quote from: fred. on 14 January 2019, 12:30:46 PM
The above appeals to me a lot. There are bits and pieces available around the edges of current ranges, but some dedicated figures would be very nice. It may be a project that can start quite quickly from initial figures and build from there.
Tip of the hat Fred; you summarised my thoughts in far fewer words.
Peninsula c 1809 - complete range with Spanish. Nothing else thanks very much and definitely no bloody Zombies.
Portugese would be good as well for the Peninsular Campaign.
Quote from: Sunray on 14 January 2019, 10:03:42 AM
What is noticeable are the "dogs that aren't barking" . The period/ranges that Leon and I have "chatted" about as potentials.
The Korean experiment was/is a major gamble in creating a new figure range. It only works because WW2 vehicles are already "on the shelf". There are a few WW2 figures such as the US Marines that will compliment. For me the soft field caps and berets lend themselves very well to a 10mm 1960s/70s Bush war game.
Well, I'm currently interested in Cold War c.1962, but didn't add this to this thread as there's already a very good start on the vehicles front, just need infantry to catch up.
Quote from: Matt J on 14 January 2019, 12:58:53 PM
Cold war gone hot seems to be very popular at the mo, I would certainly ride that pony.
For me, yes but c.1962. Most cold-war-gone-hot seems to be centered on post-1980 (I suspect because the US suddenly get some sexy kit - M1, MLRS, etc.)
Quote from: FierceKitty on 13 January 2019, 10:57:31 PM
The Arabs really had little to do with the Crusades as a whole; after the Fatimids they were little but auxiliaries and mercenaries.
Yes you are correct FK. I should have been more correct, meaning a Fatamids / Ayyubids range
Quote from: Raider4 on 14 January 2019, 08:19:26 PM
For me, yes but c.1962. Most cold-war-gone-hot seems to be centered on post-1980 (I suspect because the US suddenly get some sexy kit - M1, MLRS, etc.)
Good point. The post 1980 era was a time of very high tensions in US - Soviet relations. The most serious was the misunderstanding around Exercise Able Archer in 1983 (I remember it well!). :o
These 'recent' memories, corresponding with the publication of war game rules for Cold War and - as you say, sexy kit- eclipse the earlier Cold War era. Like the Soviet invasions/intervention of East Germany (1953), the Pozana (Polish) and Hungarian Uprisings of 1956 and the Prague Spring of 1968. To these uprisings that begin with unrest and could have led to conventional confrontation, you can add the Cuba crisis/ USS Beale incident of 1962.
Like Korean these 1950s and indeed early 60s games can be played with WW2 and - with a few amendments- BKC rules. The game changer for me is the innovation of wire guided missiles on the killing ground. Mind you the SS 10 and the Vigilant are around from the late 1950s.
So far, I make it (in no particular order):
- 4 Biblicals
- 2 Chinese
- 3 Revolutionary Wars
- 1 Mexican Revolution 1830
- 1 Mexican Revolution 1910
- 1 Byzantines
- 1 Carlist Wars
- 1 Crusader Opponents
- 1 Balkan Wars
- 3 Elizabethan (world wide)
- 1 Spanish American War 1898
- 1 Touregs
- 2 Napoleonics of various types
- 1 Early Cold War
- 3 Late Cold War
- 1 War of 1812
- 1 WWII Armed Civvies
- 2 Weird War II
- 2 Medieval
There's nothing like consistency ... and that's nothing like consistency.
If you take the question at it's original formulation, for new
periods and so dispense with those mentioned that are additions to existing ranges, then I would opine it's Biblicals and Elizabethans. I've excluded late Cold War as they do appear on the project list for 2019.
Useful summary Stuart - many thanks.
Let's allow it to run a while and perhaps (?) attract comment from more of 2,000 + members who frequent this forum.
TMP have run a similar survey - only couched as "periods you were least likely to game" and not specific to 10mm.
In an earlier thread I asked why gamers were attracted to 10mm. I wonder how many gamers end up in a period because they saw the eye candy on the Pendraken stall at a show, and Dave beguiled them ?
I'd add another vote for crusader opponents, but that's maybe cheating as I'm already doing it so not really a "new period" ...
On the assumption that the rest of the gaps in the Napoleonic range are going to get filled in regardless, my vote goes for
Revolutionary Wars range - I'm less interested in Egypt, Russia and Persia but Austria and France including Piedmont, Polish legions, etc would be cool
I'd also like a 18th century in India range Clive, EIC, Presidency and Wellesley
And despite the fact that my extremely comprehensive ancients armies are all 15mm I have nothing in the biblical era, so would seriously consider a 10mm expansion there.
With the release of the BBB Balkan Wars book why not a 10mm range. Here's an idea: a catalogue listing for the Balkan Wars giving proxies, with their current code, for figures already available that will work well, and just new figures to fill in the gaps.
Quote from: fsn on 15 January 2019, 08:38:00 AM
So far, I make it (in no particular order):
Two votes so far (me and SultanBev)
Post-Roman Britain (as described in Bernard Conwell's Arthur trilogy)
To play games like Frostgrave or Sellswords & Spellslingers in 10mm, "Classic" D&D-style packs of adventurers. Packs of (say) 6-10 figures, a few fighters, a wizard, a cleric or two, a thief, etc. Including both male & female characters. (Don't know how practical these would be really, but would be nice.)
Would you be able to find them? What would you do with the other 14 in each pack?
Quote from: Raider4 on 15 January 2019, 07:54:11 PM
Post-Roman Britain (as described in Bernard Conwell's Arthur trilogy)
You can do this fairly well using the Late Romans , and the Dark Ages packs
Quote from: Raider4 on 15 January 2019, 07:54:11 PM
To play games like Frostgrave or Sellswords & Spellslingers in 10mm, "Classic" D&D-style packs of adventurers. Packs of (say) 6-10 figures, a few fighters, a wizard, a cleric or two, a thief, etc. Including both male & female characters. (Don't know how practical these would be really, but would be nice.)
Unfortunately creating a pack of individuals master would be very expensive - 10 plus masters. Then you would only sell a pack or at most two to someone who was interested. Its not really commercially viable. Also the cost of two of these packs for 10mm, you could buy your warband for Frostgrave or Sell Swords in 28mm.
I rest my case m'lud.
Am I alone in finding "Revolutionary War" ambiguous?
It seems to be commonly used in the context of 1792, guillotines, sans-culottes etc.
My initial reaction is always 1776, Washington crossing the Deleware, Riflemen with squirrel hats in their log cabins etc.
Steve
To an extent it is if you google it. Better the term Wars of the French Revolution,.
The armies required to cover the period of the 1st Coalition in Europe would be:
French
Prussian
Austrian
British
Dutch
Hanoverian
Hessian
Small contingents from other German states.
Piedmont and other Italian states
Spanish
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 16 January 2019, 07:55:09 AM
Am I alone in finding "Revolutionary War" ambiguous?
It seems to be commonly used in the context of 1792, guillotines, sans-culottes etc.
My initial reaction is always 1776, Washington crossing the Deleware, Riflemen with squirrel hats in their log cabins etc.
In the UK the Revolutionary Wars refers to the period 1792 -1804, i.e. the wars sparked by the French Revolution. What took place in the American colonies is seen as a war for independence from the colonial power rather than a revolution. So yes, in the Uk you would be alone as our mnemonic for 1776-1783 is the AWI.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 16 January 2019, 07:55:09 AM
Am I alone in finding "Revolutionary War" ambiguous?
...or in remembering that the important fight in 1812 was outside Moscow?
The longest war of that time was the 1780-1821 war in the middle east, with Brits, EIC, Omanis, Iraqis, Syrians, Yemenis, Turks and Egyptians all fighting the Saudis, (Wahhabis of the Nejd and Qawasimi pirates as they were called then). If it wasn't for Napoleon stomping all over Europe, Wellington would have earned his fame in the Persian Gulf.
Mark
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 16 January 2019, 07:55:09 AM
Am I alone in finding "Revolutionary War" ambiguous?
It seems to be commonly used in the context of 1792, guillotines, sans-culottes etc.
My initial reaction is always 1776, Washington crossing the Deleware, Riflemen with squirrel hats in their log cabins etc.
Your question has a point, Steve; there is some ambiguity (yet funny how most of us thought of the
French Revolutionary Wars - which is the proper title for these wars, btw)? For me, the plural ("wars") helped direct me to the consensus of the majority. The other war you mention, of course, is known as the American Revolutionary War by our American cousins but like Leman, I always think of that conflict as The American War of Independence partly because that's how it was first introduced to me in school.
I think of that one as the American rebellion (also as the "War-of-Why-do-Horse-and-Musket-without-Hussars-or-Cuirassiers?").
There are several things I would like mentioned by other members for my ongoing Project
Quote from: Orcs on 13 January 2019, 08:21:50 PM
WW2 Polish (or generic) Armoured Train - Sorry getting a bit like FK and the Aztecs before they were released
Quote from: Ithoriel on 13 January 2019, 11:37:06 PM
Russian Partisans, German Volkssturm and the Russian B-4 203mm tracked howitzer, for example. I realise demand may be low for some or all of those.
(https://www.super-hobby.com/zdjecia/9/7/3/1527_rd.jpg)
Plus a tractor
(http://www.missing-lynx.com/images/trump01573reviewcs_1.jpg)
Take care
Andy
Quote from: sultanbev on 16 January 2019, 09:38:52 AM
The longest war of that time was the 1780-1821 war in the middle east, with Brits, EIC, Omanis, Iraqis, Syrians, Yemenis, Turks and Egyptians all fighting the Saudis, (Wahhabis of the Nejd and Qawasimi pirates as they were called then). If it wasn't for Napoleon stomping all over Europe, Wellington would have earned his fame in the Persian Gulf.
Mark
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 16 January 2019, 07:55:09 AM
Am I alone in finding "Revolutionary War" ambiguous?
It seems to be commonly used in the context of 1792, guillotines, sans-culottes etc.
My initial reaction is always 1776, Washington crossing the Deleware, Riflemen with squirrel hats in their log cabins etc.
Sorry no that's the American War of Independence [AWI]
more divided by common language/nomenclature stuff I guess
Since the question was what NEW PERIODS (not what's missing from existing ranges) I'd like: Arab Israeli war of 1973 - Yom Kippur. Everything before is too one sided. Syrians on the Golan is the closest anyone ever got to invading Israel proper.
Is it me - or are some of the new period ideas more skirmish type games - might those look better in a larger scale - can I mention that 2 and 8 total 10 mm, but when placed side by side they say "28" mm? :P
One of the missing dogs just barked. :)
Woof, Woooooooooooofffff